Deity of Jesus

[Guest shiloh357]

As for Jesus possessing power to die or not to die, what part of "This commandment have I received of my Father" do you perceive as not applying to Jesus' claim. It is, after all, he who makes the connection between his having the power, and God giving him the command.

All Jesus is saying is that the Father has appointed that Jesus die and that Jesus take up His Life again. The Father appoints it, and Jesus was commissioned to do it. It is Jesus

[Guest shiloh357]

Part 3

interrupts Shiloh357's train of thought to offer a correction, Enquirer did not apply "Whether" to this portion of the verse. Please, try to focus. "WHETHER they be THRONES OR DOMINIONS OR PRINCIPALITIES, OR POWERS." that is the focus of the limiting parameter "Whether." Look just up the page and you will see the same use of capitalization, for emphasis and identification.

And like I said, it is not a limiting parameter, but even if it was, it still does not help your argument.

Where do you get "physical or spiritual?" I see no reason to include "Physical" with no more information than scripture gives us, and his reference is to powers, thrones, dominions, and principalities, which may or may not be physical. The verse under consideration does not say so.

Where do I get the

[Enquirer]

PART I

To Enquirer's remark - As for Jesus possessing power to die or not to die, what part of "This commandment have I received of my Father" do you perceive as not applying to Jesus' claim. It is, after all, he who makes the connection between his having the power, and God giving him the command.

Shiloh357 responds - All Jesus is saying is that the Father has appointed that Jesus die and that Jesus take up His Life again. The Father appoints it, and Jesus was commissioned to do it. It is Jesus

[Enquirer]

PART II

To Enquirer's remark - If Jesus is begotten, by the meaning inherent in the terminology, he had a "beginning," a "cause to be," he could not have been eternal in heaven prior to a beginning in the flesh. THAT is a contradiction, and makes God the author of confusion, which he says he is not. Or are you one of those who believes that words mean one thing when applied to men, and something different when applied to Jesus?

shiloh357 responds - Well, I pay attention to context, and the entire counsel of the Word of God when I am dealing with issues like this. Hebrews 1:2 also says that Jesus is an heir. However, given what we know about Jesus, the concept of

[Enquirer]

PART III

To Enquirer's remark - It has been claimed that since God alone is saviour, and Jesus is saviour, Jesus must be God. That is an erroneous conclusion for the following reason:

The children of Israel received blessings from God, and grew fat and sassy as a result: "So the children went in and possessed the land, and thou subduedst before them the inhabitants of the land, the Canaanites, and gavest them into their hands, with their kings, and the people of the land, that they might do with them as they would. 25 And they took strong cities, and a fat land, and possessed houses full of all goods, wells digged, vineyards, and oliveyards, and fruit trees in abundance: so they did eat, and were filled, and became fat, and delighted themselves in thy great goodness. 26 Nevertheless they were disobedient, and rebelled against thee, and cast thy law behind their backs, and slew thy prophets which testified against them to turn them to thee, and they wrought great provocations." [Neh 9:24-26]

And God sent them saviours who saved them. God remained as the only

saviour, but these surrogates served in his name, as saviours: "Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven and according to thy manifold mercies THOU GAVEST THEM SAVIOURS, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies." [Neh 9:27]

EXAMPLE: GIDEON

Jdgs 6:14 And the LORD looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy

might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of the Midianites:

have not I sent thee?

EXAMPLE: BOOK OF JUDGES

400 years cycle of faith, falling away, captivity, remorse, salvation,

faith, falling away, etc.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the

mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

EXAMPLE: JESUS CHRIST - "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a prince AND A SAVIOUR, for to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins." [Acts 5:31]

So you see, God gave Jesus to Israel to be their saviour and gave him

power to forgive there sins.

shiloh357's response - This is just another sample of erroneous handling of the biblical Hebrew, and a complete disregard for how words are used. The difference between Jesus

[Enquirer]

PART IV

shiloh357 continued - this in connection with the fact that God in the OT claims to be the Savior, means that Jesus must be God since He is the only Savior and the only Way to salvation.

The

[Enquirer]

PART V

To Enquirer's remark: All that is in Colossians? I do not see "deliniations," "character," "operations," nor "attributes" in the reference material.

shiloh357 responds - "Well the difference is clear to someone will to be honest in how they handle the Scriptures. It is clear from the Col 1:14-17, and the description of Jesus given, that it is not a description of mankind in general, and therefore the

[Guest shiloh357]

That is decidedly NOT what the scripture says. Look again at John 10:18 "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment [strong's 1785] have I received of my Father."

Look now at the only verse in scripture that has a word translated "commission" and examine the difference in both terminology and concept. Act 26:12 "Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority [strong's 1849] and commission [strong's 2011] from the chief priests,"

So you see, commission [epitropee] is not commandment [entolee], it is full authority to carry out a mission. Commandment however, is (1) of the old testament law, "commandment, precept, ordinance [Luke 23:56]." (2) of official commands, "edict, decree, order [John 11:57]," (3) of authoritative but not official directions, "order, command [Luke 15:29]."

Now my friend, if you consider a "Command" from God to be simply a commission, or authority to carry out a mission, then you probably also think of Moses and the ten suggestions. No, it is a commandment, not a commission.

In fact, Jesus used his obedience to his Father's commandments as an example for this disciples: John 15:10 If ye keep [strong's 5083] my commandments [strong's 1785], ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept [strong's 5083] my Father's commandments [strong's 1785], and abide in his love.

The problem with your remarks is that you fail to understand that the word in Greek ent

[Guest shiloh357]

To Enquirer's remark: All that is in Colossians? I do not see "deliniations," "character," "operations," nor "attributes" in the reference material.

shiloh357 responds - "Well the difference is clear to someone will to be honest in how they handle the Scriptures. It is clear from the Col 1:14-17, and the description of Jesus given, that it is not a description of mankind in general, and therefore the

[Enquirer]

My last address to you.

YOU WROTE: The remainder of your remarks, besides being laced with vitriol and bitterness, would only force me to repeat what I have already addressed. I will not waste my time posting and reposting the same arguments over and over. I have presented a substantive enough of a response that the reader can review all past posts decide for themselves who has made the weightier arguments.

Enquirer's response: (NEW) You fill your powts with incendiary rhetoric, and accuse me of bitterness and vitriol? I guess that is easier than addressing the issues. You use terms like "Any honest Christian" as though I am a dishonest Christian, but I let that pass. You hav einsulted me and continually questioned my character; then have the audacity to say I am full of vitriol?

YOU are not worth the effort.

You still have not addressed the first issue I raised, with any degree of success.

Jesus, when with the Father, is ouk monos. The father when with Jesus is ouk monos. Jehovah God monos created the heavens and the earth. Ergo, Jesus was not with the father.

You have failed from page one to the very last to address any issue raised by me, except to spew your hate language, and dodge issues.

Goodby.