The Covenants: Toward A Biblical Understanding

[JesusisGod2]

The Abrahamic Covenant does not have a human mediator in that the Abrahamic covenant was from start to finish a complete work of God. It does not rely on Abraham or anyone else for its continued existance and fullfillment.

That is awesome, praise God!

[antiaging]

i don't know about a covenant-keeping name but antiaging is quite right that to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob He was known as God Almighty (in the English). not a personal God yet, but the first step in changing their ideas of the ancient gods of egypt.

No, antiaging was completely wrong. Antiaging said that God was not known to the Patriarchs as YHVH (Jevohah) and I proved from Genesis 15, that his position was incorrect.

Moses and Jesus are mediators of two different covenants. The Old covenant and the new covenant. Both of those covenants have written rules and codes of conduct that are supposed to be followed. From what I see of the covenant with Abraham, he was supposed to believe God and circumcise his children. Abraham does not appear to be a mediator of a covenant in the same sense that Moses and Jesus are. The covenant with Abraham does not involve written laws and rules like the Old covenant and New covenant do.

Would you comment on this?

For one thing the Bible does not record Moses as a mediator of any convenant, so I am not sure where you got that idea. Furthermore, your point of above is irrelevant to the issue you raised prior. Thirdly, Abraham's covenant is called an "eternal covenant" by God. "Eternal means "eternal." That covenant is still in force. The Abrahamic Covenant does not have a human mediator in that the Abrahamic covenant was from start to finish a complete work of God. It does not rely on Abraham or anyone else for its continued existance and fullfillment.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Exodus 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Acts 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

It refers to the law as being ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. I suppose it was referring to Moses.

The ten commandments given to Moses are called a covenant.

[Fraught]

i don't know about a covenant-keeping name but antiaging is quite right that to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob He was known as God Almighty (in the English). not a personal God yet, but the first step in changing their ideas of the ancient gods of egypt.

No, antiaging was completely wrong. Antiaging said that God was not known to the Patriarchs as YHVH (Jevohah) and I proved from Genesis 15, that his position was incorrect.

Moses and Jesus are mediators of two different covenants. The Old covenant and the new covenant. Both of those covenants have written rules and codes of conduct that are supposed to be followed. From what I see of the covenant with Abraham, he was supposed to believe God and circumcise his children. Abraham does not appear to be a mediator of a covenant in the same sense that Moses and Jesus are. The covenant with Abraham does not involve written laws and rules like the Old covenant and New covenant do.

Would you comment on this?

you are right! the covenant with Abraham was along the lines of a promise - God's promise to him that he would be the father of descendants as numerous as the stars! what made it so exciting was that at the time God promised him, he was quite old but he believed God which is why God considered him to be righteous.

[Guest shiloh357]

i don't know about a covenant-keeping name but antiaging is quite right that to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob He was known as God Almighty (in the English). not a personal God yet, but the first step in changing their ideas of the ancient gods of egypt.

No, antiaging was completely wrong. Antiaging said that God was not known to the Patriarchs as YHVH (Jevohah) and I proved from Genesis 15, that his position was incorrect.

Moses and Jesus are mediators of two different covenants. The Old covenant and the new covenant. Both of those covenants have written rules and codes of conduct that are supposed to be followed. From what I see of the covenant with Abraham, he was supposed to believe God and circumcise his children. Abraham does not appear to be a mediator of a covenant in the same sense that Moses and Jesus are. The covenant with Abraham does not involve written laws and rules like the Old covenant and New covenant do.

Would you comment on this?

For one thing the Bible does not record Moses as a mediator of any convenant, so I am not sure where you got that idea. Furthermore, your point of above is irrelevant to the issue you raised prior. Thirdly, Abraham's covenant is called an "eternal covenant" by God. "Eternal means "eternal." That covenant is still in force. The Abrahamic Covenant does not have a human mediator in that the Abrahamic covenant was from start to finish a complete work of God. It does not rely on Abraham or anyone else for its continued existance and fullfillment.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Exodus 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Acts 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

It refers to the law as being ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. I suppose it was referring to Moses.

The ten commandments given to Moses are called a covenant.

If by mediator, you mean a "go-between" with God and man, then yes. However, Moses was not a mediator in the same sense that Jesus is as High Priest. That is the point I was making. God spoke to Moses and Moses delivered God's word to the people. That would be as far as any role of "mediator" extended with respect to Moses.

[true61]

moses was a mediator of the law where as JESUS IS A MEDIATER BETWEEN GOD nd man. JESUS IS THE ONE who plead my case before GOD and insures my salvation

[antiaging]

If by mediator, you mean a "go-between" with God and man, then yes. However, Moses was not a mediator in the same sense that Jesus is as High Priest. That is the point I was making. God spoke to Moses and Moses delivered God's word to the people. That would be as far as any role of "mediator" extended with respect to Moses.

I tried to determine what is required of a Christian in the New Covenant compared to what was required in the Old Covenant.

Tell me if you think I left anything out.

What commandments must be kept by New Testament Christians, compared to the Old Testament Jewish laws that don't need to be kept anymore in the New Covenant.

Parts of the Torah [Old Testament Jewish law] were abolished by the New Covenant. The requirement to do animal sacrifices for the atonement for sin has been abolished. The death of Messiah on the cross is now the sacrifice of atonement for sin.

Hebrews 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Hebrews 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Conscerning the Sabbath law, Paul said you should do what your heart tells you conscerning this. The requirement of resting on the Sabbath day has been removed by what Jesus said about the Sabbath. But if your conscience tells you that you should observe it then observe it.

Matthew 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift [it] out?

Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Colossians 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.

Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Romans 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

9 of the 10 commandments must still be obeyed in the New Covenant.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Also a Christian must not look on any member of the opposite sex, except his wife, while thinking of having sex with them. Jesus called this commiting adultery in the heart.

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Also you ahould forgive those that trespass against you and not take revenge. Yet, you may request God to avenge you.

Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily.

It is still required for both Jews and gentiles in the new covenant to abstain from eating things sacrificed to idols (Paul explains why), and from blood, and strangled things, and fornication. [strangled animals still have the blood in them.]

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

[Paul says something in Romans about if you believe something to be a sin, and do it anyway, to you it is a sin. So if your conscience tells you to not eat unclean animals, then don't eat unclean things as Paul says. - But you should know that this is not required in the New Testament, no matter what you choose to eat.]

Jesus declared all foods clean:

Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, [it] cannot defile him;

Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

These things are for Jewish and gentile Christians to refrain from doing:

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Drunkards and homosexuals don't go to heaven. Idol worshippers don't go to heaven.

I hope I further clarified what is allowed and what is not allowed in the New Covenant compared to the Old Covenant.

Words of wisdom from psalms, proverbs, ecclesiates, still apply in the New Covenant. The Old Testament prophecies about the future for the end times still apply in the New Covenant.

Edited September 10, 2007 by antiaging

[Joshua-777]

We are sinners because we sin.

One thing you should note is that The book of Romans differentiates between being in bondage to sin, and the act of committing sins. Romans 1:1-5:11 deals with sins we commit and the blood of Jesus to deal with those sins. Roman 5:12-8:39 deal with the power of sin and man's bondage to it.

In Romans 5:12-16, Paul reveals that Adam operated as the representative "man" before God. All of mankind was in Adam, and when Adam fell, all of man fell with him.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(Romans 5:12)

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

(Romans 5:19)

Two things that Adam brought into the world, was sin and death. Death is the product, the fruit, the wages of sin. One man's act of disobedience in the garden made us sinners, from a legal and spiritual standpoint. The death and resurrection of Jesus is a reversal of what Adam did in the garden.

We sin because se are sinners. It is our nature to sin. Why do we have to teach children values? If a child were born into the world, left to his own, he would grow up, living like an animal. The fact that human nature, unchecked, gravitates toward sin and destructive behavior tells us a lot about the truth of the Bible's assessment of man's spiritual and moral condition apart from Christ.

I agree.

[Guest shiloh357]

I tried to determine what is required of a Christian in the New Covenant compared to what was required in the Old Covenant.

Tell me if you think I left anything out.

What commandments must be kept by New Testament Christians, compared to the Old Testament Jewish laws that don't need to be kept anymore in the New Covenant.

There are something like 1,500 commandments given to the body of Christ in the New Testament. Plenty to keep us busy!!

[Eddie B]

I tried to determine what is required of a Christian in the New Covenant compared to what was required in the Old Covenant.

Tell me if you think I left anything out.

What commandments must be kept by New Testament Christians, compared to the Old Testament Jewish laws that don't need to be kept anymore in the New Covenant.

There are something like 1,500 commandments given to the body of Christ in the New Testament. Plenty to keep us busy!!

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[Guest shiloh357]

I tried to determine what is required of a Christian in the New Covenant compared to what was required in the Old Covenant.

Tell me if you think I left anything out.

What commandments must be kept by New Testament Christians, compared to the Old Testament Jewish laws that don't need to be kept anymore in the New Covenant.

There are something like 1,500 commandments given to the body of Christ in the New Testament. Plenty to keep us busy!!

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What is that supposed to be? A refutation? The truth is the truth. We have more commandments to keep as Christians than were contained in the Torah.