Just out of curiousity...

[followerofjesus]

6But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.

Pharaoh said, "Who is the LORD, that I should obey him and let Israel go? I do not know the LORD and I will not let Israel go."

But to this day the LORD has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear

If only they were wise and would understand this

and discern what their end will be

Yet they say to God, 'Leave us alone!

We have no desire to know your ways.

Why do you boast of evil, you mighty man?

Why do you boast all day long,

you who are a disgrace in the eyes of God?

3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

youngidealist;

Could I ask you what it means to be idealistic by your own understanding?

Yes, To be Idealistic, I would want Gods best for me. I want His Ideal for me.

His Ideal is found in Christ in a returning and rest a repenting from rebellion.

Peace,

Dave

[Joshua-777]

You said that I was walking toward a lake of fire and that you and God were trying to get my attention to realize this. I don't see God telling me anything and I see you telling me this. Since the point you are making has nothing to do with any direction that I am truly walking then it stands that you're telling me the lake of fire in in every direction from myself except for the one direction that I take with your method of salvation. Thus my point stands that what you are suggesting is no different than me telling you that you are surounded by jelly and the only means of saving yourslef from drowning is to believe it and eat your way out. Here is the whole metaphor and parallel in allegorical form:

Yes I did say you where walking towards a lake of fire, You said it was all around you, thus your point doesn't stand, because your metaphore is mocking, and is used as a pinpoint of your disbelief.

Doughnut:Lake

as

Jelly:Fire

as

belief in Doughnutism:belief in Christianity

as

eat:worship

as

Crust:Jesus

as

faith requirement:faith requirement

as

unproven:unproven

Lake of fire, beliefe in Christ, not christianity, worship Jesus, Faith is given to those who accept it, and proven. can you please stop using this disrespectful metaphore"?

I honestly don't believe that you know any real God. I think that what you feel you know in this sense is only to fulfill the desired delutions you wish to keep, for whatever personal reasons you have. It is rational that I make this assumption, even if it is about you and every other christian that has ever felt this way, therefore no testimony really matters. What's more, no matter what the truth is, the majority of religious people must be delutional, because only one religion of faith salvation can be true, since each highlights themselves as most important. If most religions are just delutions then that further pushes the rationality of assuming you to be delutional yourself.

Then you believe I don't, and I don't just feel I do, and no I'm not delutional. and no it's not rational that you make the assumption, and testimonys do really matter, and is ignorent not to look at them, or find reasons why, can you say to someone that the Lord healed of cancer, that there is no God? How about someone who was dead and the Lord brought back to life that there is no God? and no HOnestly Christians dont highlight themselves as the most important, they highlight God to be the most important, all religions is all other religions, It's like this, say my shoe is black, and I wanted to lie to you about the color of my shoe, how many lies can I tell you? many upon many, which is satans plan. I love how you use the word rational, actualy that is not a rational thought you saying this, lol.

As for thermodynamics, order and disorder are both subjective terms. You can see an explosive reaction as being disorder, while I see it as simply a more complex order.

If you ave no proof, then how can you claim to have evidence? Is it subjective evidence? Can you at least prove that it wasn't your own delution that made it seem as though it broke odds? Believing is no different than gambling, except that no laws are enforced that once in a while someone gets it right and wins. The only way to truly win at such games is not to play. How do you separate your delutions from reality? How do you prove that you are correct?

I asked if you would like evidence, and do not mock me, How old are you? lol rationaly you cannot call someone crazy unless you know the reason why they believe. I asked if you would like evidence,

By definition a skeptic wants proof, and for the sake of argument we are talking hypothetically about a skeptic who will not deny proof. can you even paint a picture of proof in your terms of God?

where would you like me to start? there are 10thousand prophecies I could get into, but you seem too ignorent to look. lets start with the gathering and regathering of the jews, isn't ironic that isreal is it's own state now? which was a prophecy that would occure near the end times? the bible actualy states that there will be a scattering and a regathering of the Jews, this is a major sign of the times we live in. how about the prophecies concering Jesus? there are too many to name, but if you would like i could get into that aswell. How much evidence would you need?

Statistics only lie on false or incomplete reports, not on their input or direct feedback. I say that you are the one who is blindfolded and that you do not want to be lead to truth. Because of that, you are in bondage to the rules of the bible,even when I have shown you the proof of it's incompatabiliy with reality.

Lol, Honestly, I'll admit I am grounded by the bible, bondage though? no, I'm not under any bondage, just the freedom of Jesus Christ, which I honestly wish you would know the love and grace he's given us, and no I am not in bondage to the rules to the bible, I follow the bible, I have free will to break the bible, but one thing I've noticed, when I fall into sin, I get distant to God, and it leads me to bondage in the darkness away from him.

That's not a little faith or half faith, that's expecting the skeptic to deny all skepticism. That is irrational.

That is rational, believe and he will show you. Skeptic is a term, people are people, skeptic isn't a race of people, thats what you need to understand. Expecting an drug addict do denie all drugs, is that rational? yes. Trust me, skeptic is a bondage mindframe,

[Guest]

Why I weep for Thadius, Systenstrike 7, runner's high, youngidealist, Shiva82, SaturnV, hatsoff, and Seanport.

All Know The Truth but try their worst to outdo each other in mocking and in pushing Jesus away.

I see the end but still I cry to The Lord for Mercy and for Grace.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

But all a skeptic does is chooses to not believe in something without a great deal of clear evidence. People have the right to be a little skeptical in life, even before God. If choosing not to believe until a descent amount of evidence is shown is unacceptable then God's not worth the value of the reasonable skeptic.

This just breaks my heart!

I can hardly type for the tears!

Hosanna Lord, Hosanna!

(Luke 16:22-24)

[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

(Luke 16:31)

[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And, then they get just one final look at our precious Lord Jesus.

(Revelation 20:11-15)

[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Love, Joe

[tdrehfal]

Why I weep for Thadius, Systenstrike 7, runner's high, youngidealist, Shiva82, Observer of dreams, SaturnV, hatsoff, and Seanport.

All Know The Truth but try their worst to outdo each other in mocking and in pushing Jesus away.

I see the end but still I cry to The Lord for Mercy and for Grace.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

But all a skeptic does is chooses to not believe in something without a great deal of clear evidence. People have the right to be a little skeptical in life, even before God. If choosing not to believe until a descent amount of evidence is shown is unacceptable then God's not worth the value of the reasonable skeptic.

This just breaks my heart!

I can hardly type for the tears!

Hosanna Lord, Hosanna!

(Luke 16:22-24)

[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

(Luke 16:31)

[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And, then they get just one final look at our precious Lord Jesus.

(Revelation 20:11-15)

[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Love, Joe

[Guest]

"The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace." (Numbers 6:26)

Love, Joe

[cjrose]

"The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace." (Numbers 6:26)

Love, Joe

((((((((((((((((((brother Joe))))))))))))))))))))))

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

YI,

Let me see if I understand this, as you seem wise in the ways of truth and understanding. So, what you are saying is that rebellion in essence is fundamentally not ideal because God says not to rebel in so many words through the bible, correct?

First it should be clear if I understand what it means to be rebellious. Historically and as I understand it, a rebellion is something where the rebel chooses by his own will to fight against a status quo in society. Examples would be something like wanting to change laws, cut taxes, and usually this means changing the leadership of the society as well. More metaphorically the word 'rebellion' tends to stand for a similar resistance in direct vicinity of a person's environment, such as resisting the orders of a parent or boss or teacher. Should I accept both the metaphorical and origional meanings of the word 'rebellion' in this sense?

If so, then what you are saying is simply that what God wants is ideal, and as God wants us to not rebel, it is not ideal to rebel against God, the government, the law, our parents, preachers or anyone, correct? Should we also conclude that everyone, even strangers, children, or babies are also such characters that we are not to rebel against? Clearly there are many differences that each of these characters in our lives disagree wtih. Is there then a hierchy or chain of command to these authorities in our lives, and/or would we discount some of these authorities from being that which it is not ideal to rebel against?

In other words, if the government is unjust or contradicting the will of God then do we assume that our rebellion against the government or law is ideal? If so does this apply to every being in our lives? Do we assume that everyone in our lives are authorities above us that are not ideal to rebel against or do we claim to find that there are some peoples we are right to or even have the moral obligation to rebel against while other people in our lives are not ideal to rebel against? Would I be correct then in saying that sometimes it is acceptable or even ideal to rebel and sometimes it is not?

Yikes!

Bless you my friend, you suffer from thinking way too much. I used to suffer from that at times too. Although God has delivered me from it. Still, at times, I do still suffer. Usually when I fall back into rebellion from time to time.

I'm thinking of this;

1Sa

[apothanein kerdos]

Well youngidealist, I know these things, so let's talk about them.

You really don't know where the history of what you represent comes from do you? You really don't realize how the only claim of good that chriatianity can claim throughout the ages is fulfilling itself. You really don't look back at the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Puritan laws, the KKK fad, the hundrends of years of science that were held back because people were killed for printing things that were not consistant with the bible, or even the fact that it was used as a tool to justify classification when the church refused to allow it to be translated from latin and only those who could read latin could tell others what to believe in.

You list a wide range of things, but let's deal with the overall idea - in the name of Christ, atrocities have been committed. My question to you is, what ideology has not been hijacked and used for oppression, or at least the support of oppression? Darwin, Nietzsche, Marquis de Sade, and others all used atheism as a tool for subjecting women, hurting women, and oppressing minorities. There is not one ideology that hasn't been hijacked.

With Christianity, for all those times you speak of, there were also those who held true to the Bible and spoke out against the oppression. The Poor men of Lyons translated the Latin bible into French and German hundreds of years before it was even allowed. As further proof that you cannot blame Catholic/Protestant atrocities on Christianity during these times, monks were to learn the traditions of the Church but hardly knew the scriptures. This means they were inconsistent with what was taught, ergo, it makes no sense to blame Biblical Christianity for what was done contrary to what it commands.

You overlook these things and go to church thinking that it's always been as happy and wonderful as your mood allows you to feel now. You deny and reject proof of it's falsehood and still stand by the need for belief.

How is it a falsehood? Because it was abused? What is your epistemological reason for rejecting Christianity as false?

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

YI,

First off I removed the mocking signature you posted as well the link to anti-Christian content.

Secondly,

I never said not to think. Thinking is a good thing. I was impying that the expounding upon Rebellion to the tenth degree is taking things a little too far.

The Gospel is very easy to understand for a reason. When we complicate it like you did with rebellion we tend to lose our way.

I have often reached way too far myself with Scripture and ended up off in a dark corner. It is usually the simple meaning that is the best.

It's a little presumptive of you to think that the last time I had a Free thought was as a Babe, don'ta think.

Quite actually the opposite is True, My first Free thoughts were the ones I had when I was saved and ended my Rebellion against God.

God has Justified His Righteousness and Mercy with Love. As I said in Christ's actions are Gods Love revealed. God has Loved you right to death, however you still rebel.

The problem is that this rebellion has left you in a State of disrepair to the Spiritual order of things.

Are you thinking clearly?

P.S. It was you that asked me what my ideal was and to also expound upon it.

Peace,

Dave