Kansasdad Posted February 19, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,227 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/19/1964 Share Posted February 19, 2007 It is not even hinted at in scripture, and is an extra religious activity which has no value except to the feelings of security in the believer. We don't need any security but the full assurance of the promises of God in Christ Jesus. So does everything we ever do have to be expressly described in scripture. Seriously Floatingaxe can you honestly evaluate why praying in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit bothers you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted February 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 19, 2007 It is not even hinted at in scripture, and is an extra religious activity which has no value except to the feelings of security in the believer. We don't need any security but the full assurance of the promises of God in Christ Jesus. So does everything we ever do have to be expressly described in scripture. Seriously Floatingaxe can you honestly evaluate why praying in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit bothers you. I always pray in the name of God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I am sure you have read enough of my posts to realize that I have no beef with Spirit-filled believers and how we pray. I just don't need my hands to make a sign for proof. That is a religious affectation that we can do without. You have seriously misjudged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2007 Gee whiz, what incessant bafflegab making the rounds! Precisely which disciple, do you recall, who exclaimed, "And now herewith I make signage of the wooden cross"? I cannot recall the precise Scripture. Doesn't "In spirit and in truth" by Jesus himself say it best? Hmm. http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I think a good question to ask ourselves would be. . . Does it HURT your relationship with the Lord to cross yourself for prayer? That would depend on whether one believes that it is required. If someone is taught that it is a "must do" and they in turn teach others, they would be guilty of teaching a lie. What does the Word say about false teachers? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Gee whiz, what incessant bafflegab making the rounds! Precisely which disciple, do you recall, who exclaimed, "And now herewith I make signage of the wooden cross"? I cannot recall the precise Scripture. Doesn't "In spirit and in truth" by Jesus himself say it best? Hmm. http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Arthur, Maybe it would be possible for you to address this without being insulting? Your words have more power than you realize and the message you convey with them is rather hurtful. Attitudes such as this do not help the unity within the body of Christ. Attacking someone's practices does nothing to further the Kingdom of Christ. Crossing one's self for prayer is no different than placing one's hand over the heart or removing a hat when hearing the national anthem or seeing the Flag. It's an outward symbol of respect and allegience. As long as it does not become more important than prayer itself, it does not hurt anything. man, I asked if it hurts your relationship with the Lord, not someone elses. Using the symbol of crossing yourself is not false teaching. It is a personal choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted February 20, 2007 As an episcopalian I cross myself when I pray and throughout the liturgy. It is a silent reminder why I am here- and how I am here through grace. It is silly to assume that crossing oneself is going to lead to salvation, but it is wrong to say that christian tradition is not a part of EVERY church. If you say your church doesn't have any traditions isn't that a tradition itself? A sunday sabbath is a tradition not expressed in the scriptures. The order (or disorder) of your service is a tradition. These customs are not bad they are unique ways in worshipping God. I believe the Spirit gives different gifts to different people and people will worship God in different ways. In some churches people clap along with the music, or dance or lift hands. Other people do not participate in these things. Still other churches do not have musical instruments, others do. It is a matter of custom and tradition. Just look at the diversity in hymns. Is one hymnal better than another? Is one way of praising God right? If crossing yourself reminds you of God and the sacrificial death of His son how could anyone see this as wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I believe the Spirit gives different gifts to different people and people will worship God in different ways. In some churches people clap along with the music, or dance or lift hands. Other people do not participate in these things. You cannot equate these things with worship. We are commanded by God to worship Him wholly, with our voices, with our bodies in dance and with full participation. There is no option for that. Theses are things we exhort each other to do, but you cannot exhort someone to perform a religious sign, or you are teaching religiosity, which God hates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rediscovering God Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 6 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/11/1949 Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) Hi, Metro indeed! The "sign of the cross" is, for those of us who live by Holy Scripture as opposed to the traditions of man, pure poppycock. The ACTUAL cross of Christ - or any hand-motions regarding its shape or material - has ZIP to do with the fact of the Savior's efficacious & all-atoning sacrifice on that gibbet of shame. It's only the cross-WORK of Christ, the world's only Savior, which demands our attention & allegiance today. Not the WOOD, only the WORK! Not the HAND-SIGNALS by man, only the HOLY SACRIFICE by Christ. Never mind what various CHURCH TRADITIONS might wish for you; stay with the HOLY SCRIPTURE which is able to "make thee wise unto salvation." "But God commendeth His love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, CHRIST DIED FOR US." (Romans 5:8). There it is! THAT says it all! The WORK, never the WOOD or the HAND-SIGN! Amen & Amen! Thank You, Lord Jesus, for making it so plain! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com This is a test: I'm new at this and have not figured out how to use it yet, but I'd like to ask Arthur Durnan a question. I see you are off line now and I've tried to e-mail you. Thanx Edited February 20, 2007 by Matthitjah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zceiv Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 482 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1991 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I always wanted to ask this, but dint know whom to ask..What is the relevance of the 'sign of the cross'(In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the H.S)? ...Why is this tradition still so important in some mainstream(catholic and orthodox) churches? How did it originate? I hope I get some answers to this ....God Bless!! Tradition is all. The only way they could help us is to remind us of jesus sacrafice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I believe the Spirit gives different gifts to different people and people will worship God in different ways. In some churches people clap along with the music, or dance or lift hands. Other people do not participate in these things. You cannot equate these things with worship. We are commanded by God to worship Him wholly, with our voices, with our bodies in dance and with full participation. There is no option for that. Theses are things we exhort each other to do, but you cannot exhort someone to perform a religious sign, or you are teaching religiosity, which God hates. how does a mute person worship him? why is the habit of holy silence and reflection making music in one's heart and crossing oneself seen as a negative thing? well you have your opinions and you are not going to change mine on this issue. I have to admit it would be weird if someone came to my church and started dancing around during the liturgy. We both serve the same Lord. peace be with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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