How does the mule fit into Biblical "kinds"?

[hatsoff]

I just want to make it immediately clear that I mean this thread to be an honest exploration, and not an argumentative challenge. Indeed, I know very little about biology and genetics (though probably considerably more than most Americans), and thus cannot possibly pursue a rigorous debate on the subject. We may get into tangent disputes, but we'll take those as they come.

My question is simple: To those of you who subscribe to Biblical "kinds," reject Darwinian evolution and believe in the historicity of the deluge, how do you explain the mule?

(I chose the mule simply because it is the most common interspecific hybrid. If you wish to discuss others, by all means do!)

Edited March 12, 2007 by hatsoff

[Wingwalker]

A mule, as my grandfather educated me, is the offspring of a horse and and donkey. There is no evolution involved. And the same said for beefalo, a crossbreed of a cow and a buffalo. This could actually fall under genetics.

[hatsoff]

Perhaps I should elaborate. Under the answersingenesis explanation, "species" is an erroneous classification. Rather, we should be concerned with "kinds." Donkeys and horses have a different number of chromosomes, yet they can interbreed--with fertile offspring, no less. Are they the same kind? If so, why the obvious genetic differences? If not, why the interbreeding?

[sheya joie]

Perhaps I should elaborate. Under the answersingenesis explanation, "species" is an erroneous classification. Rather, we should be concerned with "kinds." Donkeys and horses have a different number of chromosomes, yet they can interbreed--with fertile offspring, no less. Are they the same kind? If so, why the obvious genetic differences? If not, why the interbreeding?

Fertile offspring???? Whoever told you that? Mules are not fertile.

[Joshua-777]

Breeding a male donkey to a female horse results in a mule; breeding a male horse to a female donkey produces a hinny.

Mabie donkeys are a type of horse

Kind like breading a pit bull, with a lab.

[hatsoff]

Fertile offspring???? Whoever told you that? Mules are not fertile.

There have been documented cases, yes.

[SaturnV]

Perhaps I should elaborate. Under the answersingenesis explanation, "species" is an erroneous classification. Rather, we should be concerned with "kinds." Donkeys and horses have a different number of chromosomes, yet they can interbreed--with fertile offspring, no less. Are they the same kind? If so, why the obvious genetic differences? If not, why the interbreeding?

Fertile offspring???? Whoever told you that? Mules are not fertile.

It's rare, but it does sometimes happen.

EDIT: What hats said

Edited March 13, 2007 by SaturnV

[sheya joie]

Perhaps I should elaborate. Under the answersingenesis explanation, "species" is an erroneous classification. Rather, we should be concerned with "kinds." Donkeys and horses have a different number of chromosomes, yet they can interbreed--with fertile offspring, no less. Are they the same kind? If so, why the obvious genetic differences? If not, why the interbreeding?

Fertile offspring???? Whoever told you that? Mules are not fertile.

It's rare, but it does sometimes happen.

EDIT: What hats said

How often does that happen? 'Cause my dad was raised farming, and I never heard of fertile mules before.

[SaturnV]

Perhaps I should elaborate. Under the answersingenesis explanation, "species" is an erroneous classification. Rather, we should be concerned with "kinds." Donkeys and horses have a different number of chromosomes, yet they can interbreed--with fertile offspring, no less. Are they the same kind? If so, why the obvious genetic differences? If not, why the interbreeding?

Fertile offspring???? Whoever told you that? Mules are not fertile.

It's rare, but it does sometimes happen.

EDIT: What hats said

How often does that happen? 'Cause my dad was raised farming, and I never heard of fertile mules before.

I found a documented case in the Pub Med database of a mule in China giving birth, as well as some experiments that show mules can be fertile if a series of chromosomal errors happen when it is conceived. So, it's extremely unlikely (probably less than a 1 in 1 million chance), but it has happened.

The Wiki article on mules says about 60 cases have been reported since the 1500's, but they don't say where that data came from. Even so, considering how many mules existed since then, it is still an extremely unlikely occurence.

Edited March 13, 2007 by SaturnV

[hatsoff]

It's an issue of meiosis, as I understand it. Donkeys have 62 chromosomes, and horses 64. Mules (and hinnies) therefore have 63. But because of this chromosome issue they are not usually able to make viable gametes.

Frankly, I'm surprised the chromosome discrepancy allows for breeding at all.

As for the fertility of mules, it *does* happen. I'm not interested in arguments that the published literature to that effect is in error. However, it seems to work only with female mules, with horses or donkeys as the father. This could be an expression of the rarity of the phenomenon--that is, two fertile mules might reproduce if only they were in the right place at the right time, so to speak. But it should be noted.

Edited March 13, 2007 by hatsoff