The Gospel Accounts as absolute truth

[systemstrike_7]

Ok, ummm, oops. Apparantly the topic didn't post correctly the first time so I will try again.

(The title wasn't what I wanted it to be anyway, so I guess it worked out.)

Anyway, Hello All!

I have been away for a while, but I dropped in to ask a question. I do not wish to attack the Gospels or anything, I just wanted some opinions. I have been taking a poll (for personal reasons) at my church. I ask members if they believe that the gospel accounts are without error and give some reaoning behind why they think as they do. I would like to ask this question here, mainly because the opinions will be coming from a more diverse group of Christians and non-Christians alike. So here is my question (or questions):

Do you believe that the gospel accounts are completely perfect, void of any accidental changes or grammatical errors?/

Do you believe that the gospel accounts are without any legendary development? In other words, could certain stories have been exagerrated or had any minor changes made to them due to false oral transmitting?

Do you believe that the gospel authors kept from changing any stories to help portray their own theological agendas?

If you answer 'no' to one or any of the questions above, please tell me why you answered this (and try to make it brief, I'll be recording it).

Thanks to those who take the time. My reasoning behind this poll is basically to see how varied the views are and to compare them to my own view. In other words, I want to know how far off the mark I am...

Thanks again!

system

[systemstrike_7]

Oh yes, and if someone would like to delete the topic called "The Bible as absolute Truth" it would be much appreciated.

[systemstrike_7]

Hello I do not have my bible in front of me but I can say that without a doubt the scriptures are the authentic Word of God. If it was not possible for man to change the bible, then we would not have been warned not to do so. I have evidence of this in my library and some bibles are way off, leaving out the Blood of our Lord Jesus and diluting the meaning all together. However the very breath of God, His Living Word has a covenant in it for those who do believe. We have all that we need through this covenant. I have heard a minister speak English and other people hear there own language through him by God. This is supernatural to the max. As a believer matures in the spirit, he will recognize the Truth even in a bible that has been watered down by man. Please pardon my spelling. I need to get some rest. I hope this helps a little.

Yep, that helps. Thanks for taking the time!

[Oh Hamburgers!]

Flak time.

I've said this in the past, but I may as well restate it.

I think that the original documents of the Bible could have been divinely inspired. I think that there are many aspects of the Bible that come completely from God.

I also think that much of the Bible (Creation Story, Noah's Arc, David and Goliath, Moses Red Sea etc) is made of not-so literal stories that were used (and God inspired) to explain origins of men and animals, but are not exact, and shouldn't be read literally. I think that much of the Bible serves an important purpose for people, but when it comes to complete historical accuracy, it is not failsafe.

I think that there are some stories in the Bible that are used to prove divine "points" to the reader, but do not necessarily reflect complete true-to-life events. I think that God intended much of the Bible to be a teaching tool, not necessarily an exact historical document.

When it comes to accuracy of the original texts of the Bible, I also think that through translation and age, bits and pieces of the Bible have been changed throughout history. Considering that we have many different versions of the Bible today fortifies this arguement, because each version of the Bible is similar to each other, but there are minor changes to wording and sometimes meaning. At the same time, I think that the texts we have today are not 100% the same type of texts that have been around in the past. I think that there have been minor alterations through the the few thousand years.

At the same time, I think there are some key parts of the Bible (Jesus/NT stuff specifically) that are relatively unchanged, and represent truthful events. I cannot give you specifics, but I do believe there are some unadulterated parts of the Bible.

[systemstrike_7]

Flak time.

I've said this in the past, but I may as well restate it.

I think that the original documents of the Bible could have been divinely inspired. I think that there are many aspects of the Bible that come completely from God.

I also think that much of the Bible (Creation Story, Noah's Arc, David and Goliath, Moses Red Sea etc) is made of not-so literal stories that were used (and God inspired) to explain origins of men and animals, but are not exact, and shouldn't be read literally. I think that much of the Bible serves an important purpose for people, but when it comes to complete historical accuracy, it is not failsafe.

I think that there are some stories in the Bible that are used to prove divine "points" to the reader, but do not necessarily reflect complete true-to-life events. I think that God intended much of the Bible to be a teaching tool, not necessarily an exact historical document.

When it comes to accuracy of the original texts of the Bible, I also think that through translation and age, bits and pieces of the Bible have been changed throughout history. Considering that we have many different versions of the Bible today fortifies this arguement, because each version of the Bible is similar to each other, but there are minor changes to wording and sometimes meaning. At the same time, I think that the texts we have today are not 100% the same type of texts that have been around in the past. I think that there have been minor alterations through the the few thousand years.

At the same time, I think there are some key parts of the Bible (Jesus/NT stuff specifically) that are relatively unchanged, and represent truthful events. I cannot give you specifics, but I do believe there are some unadulterated parts of the Bible.

Hamburgers,

In this survey I am dealing directly with the gospel accounts. No OT or Pauline material. Simply the gospel accounts as we have them now. From what I read, you believe that some parts of the gospel accounts were vulnerable to alteration or mistakes, but overrall they present a truthful and God-breathed account of Jesus Christ. Am I close? (I want to clarify so that I might document your answer in the right category).

But thank you for taking the time to answer!

[systemstrike_7]

Jesus said in:

John's Gospel Sanctify them through thy truth; thy word is truth 17:17

Jesus is telling us that the Word of God is Truth, and the Word of God tells us that there is an absolute standard of truth. Moral relativism teach there is no absolute truth, but everyone can create their own reality of what truth is.

Paul wrote in:

II Timothy 3:16 reads All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

We are to trust in Jesus Christ and His Word because we know that God's Word is the absolute, and this is our standard of how we come to God on His terms and walk with Him.

Peter wrote in:

I Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private intepretation;

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

This is to say, we are not to just make up our own theology or interpretation to make the scriptures say whatever we want them to say to fit into our beliefs for our own purpose. We do not change the Word of God, but the Word of God changes our minds and our hearts, and makes us into the person God wants us to be. If we read the Word of God, God will speak to us through His Word because the Word will speak for itself, for He has given us His Holy Spirit. Amen!

In other words, could certain stories have been exagerrated or had any minor changes made to them due to false oral transmitting?

I have heard people say the Bible has been changed because of the so many translations, even here at Worthy, (see above poster) but we don't neeed translators or commentaries to tell us their opinion of what the Word of God says or means. There are too many tools available for us such as a good online Greek/Hebrew Concordance and Dictionary, so we can examine every word for ourselves. I trust that God has preserved His Word, Old and New Testament. There are a number of ancient documents that verify the manuscripts of the books of the Bible, so you can have confidence that the Word of God is true. For instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls comes from within the lifetime of people who were alive at the time of the original manuscripts were written, and these Dead Sea Scrolls from the time of Jesus confirm significant portions of the Old Testament!!

Thanks for the reply!

Again, I want to stress that I am not challenging the authenticity of the gospel accounts, I am merely getting opinions. I have not stated my own view about the gospels, so please do not think that I am trying to "fight the faith" or anything of that sort.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

Hamburgers,

In this survey I am dealing directly with the gospel accounts. No OT or Pauline material. Simply the gospel accounts as we have them now. From what I read, you believe that some parts of the gospel accounts were vulnerable to alteration or mistakes, but overrall they present a truthful and God-breathed account of Jesus Christ. Am I close? (I want to clarify so that I might document your answer in the right category).

But thank you for taking the time to answer!

Hey, no problem!

Yeah, you are pretty close to the mark. I would say that the "gist" of the gospel accounts remain intact, but is it word for word 100% how it was written during the time the gospel was assembled? No, I don't think so at all.

[systemstrike_7]

Hey, no problem!

Yeah, you are pretty close to the mark. I would say that the "gist" of the gospel accounts remain intact, but is it word for word 100% how it was written during the time the gospel was assembled? No, I don't think so at all.

Awesome, I will put you under "non-believing heretic"....

I'm just kidding....

Man, I should probably go to bed and stop playing super smash bros...

[Oh Hamburgers!]

!!! Nintendo 64 Super Smash Brothers, or Gamecube??

The 64 version is probably one of my favorite games. Ness/Fox are my two best characters.

but yeah, sleep sounds really good right now.

[systemstrike_7]

Psh, N64!!!!

I play with Link. I'm a huge Zelda fan (and obviously a nerd) so I have to hold it down with Link, even though his jumping sucks. If I fail college this semester, I'm blaming it on Super Smash Bros....