Can your name be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life?

[Akiko]

Even if you do interpret the John 15 passage that way, the idea contradicts the very foundation of Jesus' preaching.

As has been said... having to be saved multiple times (sinning and getting blotted out of the Book, then repenting and getting back in) means that Jesus' first sacrifice wasn't good enough. It can't cover our sins. Which is a total falsehood; Jesus was the perfect sacrifice.

He covers all of our sins, what we've done and what we will do. God knows that we will sin. If God knew that He was going to blot us out of the Book, why would be save us in the first place?

Jesus preached that you were saved by grace and mercy, not by earning it. The Bible says, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." I'd like to note that it doesn't say, "Unless you're already a Christian, you will have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Otherwise, you've got to be perfect." It says that everyone has. God forgives us multiple times, as Jesus says when he talks about the seventy times seven... which hardly means that you should forgive your friends 490 times, and on the 491st... you're toasted. Turn your back and refuse to forgive. Jesus implied that you were to forgive them so many times, it could not be counted.

Another main point that has been glossed over is that Jesus made a NEW covanent, so that we didn't have to sacrifice to atone for our sins. It's already done. We don't have to worry about it. Quite honestly, this seems to me like a human trying to be "good enough" for God to keep them. Sorry if I stepped on your toes there.

[exrockstar]

He covers all of our sins, what we've done and what we will do. God knows that we will sin. If God knew that He was going to blot us out of the Book, why would be save us in the first place?

People love to live a life of scripture contradiction.

[Floatingaxe]

Greetings to All,

Isn't there something in the Bible written in Red ( Luke 9:62) about a person putting their hand to the plough and then looking back then the verse goes on to say a little something about them not being fit for the Kingdom.

But I guess the One Who Spoke it wasn't talking about His Followers and certainly that doesn't apply to God's Kingdom WELL DUH!

DUGMANDO

Luke 9:62...

But Jesus told him,

[dugmando]

Well exrockstar,

I did look up the word "fit" in Strongs concord. ref# 2111, euthetos, yoo-thet-os, well placed i.e. (fig) APPROPIATE:- fit, meet.

Now if you factor in Jesus's saying Anyone who put his hand to the plough and then looks back they are not fit or you can imply not APPROPIATE for the Kingdom.

Now I know you have it in you to understand this if your not APPROPIATE for something what does that make you?

Wrong, Not Appropiate: Not Fitting, Not Timely, or Unsuitable

Not Fitting=Unfit, Unfit means:

1. unsuitable: unsuitable for a specific purpose

2. unqualified: lacking the necessary skills or qualifications to perform a specific task adequately

I guess next your going to say look up Kingdom because it's not Jesus's Kingdom

Strongs concord. ref# 932: basileia, bas-il-i ah, from 935 prop. Kingdom-Royalty i.e. (abstr)rule, or(concr) a realm (lit. or fig.) Kingdom+reign

Strongs concord. ref# 935: basileus, bas-il-yooce, prob. from 939(through the notion of a foundation of power)a sovereign.

Strongs concord.ref# 939 basis, bas-ece, from baino, (to walk); a pace ("base"), i.e. (by impl.) the foot:-foot.

I reckon maybe you think its a little hard for us that lean toward the belief of non-OSAS to understand this but answer me if the word for Kingdom is dervived for all these different references: Base, or foot and Sovereign (through the notion of foundation of power) and Kingdom and Royalty

What Kingdom is the Basis/Foundation of Power if that Kingdom is not the Kingdom of God?

What Sovereignty has Rule over all if that Kingdom is not God's?

What Kingdom-Royalty is above all others if it is not The Lord's

And what Kingdom are you not FIT/APPROPIATE for because you've placed your hand to the plough and then looked back

if this does not refer to the Kingdom of God?

Maybe you are having a problem with understanding the comparsion of the plough and the Christian life

Why even a dumb country boy like me knows that a plough's main function is to turn the earth upside down

Shouldn't We instead of debating about doctrinal issues be turning the World upside down for Our Savior?

Whew I'm about to have a running streak, Praise Jesus!

God Bless You and Good Luck to You Too and I also know you have it in you to see this it seems plain to me of course now I do live in the South,

Dugmando and Yes, Friend God Loves You!

Edited May 19, 2007 by dugmando

[exrockstar]

Well exrockstar,

I did look up the word "fit" in Strongs concord. ref# 2111, euthetos, yoo-thet-os, well placed i.e. (fig) APPROPIATE:- fit, meet.

Now if you factor in Jesus's saying Anyone who put his hand to the plough and then looks back they are not fit or you can imply not APPROPIATE for the Kingdom.

Now I know you have it in you to understand this if your not APPROPIATE for something what does that make you?

Wrong, Not Appropiate: Not Fitting, Not Timely, or Unsuitable

Not Fitting=Unfit, Unfit means:

1. unsuitable: unsuitable for a specific purpose

2. unqualified: lacking the necessary skills or qualifications to perform a specific task adequately

I guess next your going to say look up Kingdom because it's not Jesus's Kingdom

Strongs concord. ref# 932: basileia, bas-il-i ah, from 935 prop. Kingdom-Royalty i.e. (abstr)rule, or(concr) a realm (lit. or fig.) Kingdom+reign

Strongs concord. ref# 935: basileus, bas-il-yooce, prob. from 939(through the notion of a foundation of power)a sovereign.

Strongs concord.ref# 939 basis, bas-ece, from baino, (to walk); a pace ("base"), i.e. (by impl.) the foot:-foot.

to be "fit" and to "enter" are two different things.

we have billions of people given everlasting life.

however, you do know that there is work to be done. we're not going to be having picnics and relaxing at the beach in eternity.

right?

so lets say that you were saved but didnt read much and just lived life. you had a heart attack and died all of a sudden.

now let's say there is a...uhm...pastor...dedicated his entire life toreading God's word.

Because the pastor has a more understanding of God's word and has proven he has been a responsible follower, he is more fit

than you to take on responsibilities in eternity. You didnt want to learn and all you did was let time pass being a baby in Christ.

YOU were pulling the plow but kept looking back and not staying in focus.

The pastor was focused.

You have proven that you are not fit/capable to take on the responsibility to pull a plow.

again, it has nothing to do with entering.

With you asking qestions, learning, studying God's word is showing that you are capable of staying focused.

The flesh you are in today is the training ground to show where you deserve to be in eternity.

now if you feel that everyone in eternity is going to be equal to one another then thats another issue.

[Guest LadyC]

of course the devil can't snatch anyone from the hand of God.

but salvation is a GIFT. and like any gift, it can be freely accepted and freely rejected at any time.

salvation can't be lost.

but it can be tossed.

[exrockstar]

i would prefer to look at other scriptures in the NT about "blotting out."

in all honesty one has to comprehend the letters.

they are "deep" discussion.

it has to make sense 3 fold.

1. to the churches

2. to the church ages

3. to present times

Rev. Revelation 1:19 the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

to say "God can blot you out" is only making sense to number 3.

if He wrote this letter to Sardis, THEY would know EXACTLY what He was talking about.

This is why i dont like to talk about the letters to people who aren't humble and search for truth.

This is a reassurabce that God will not blot out names from the book of life.

The research I can ask you to look into is...who was saying that God would?

get it?

If Butero insisted that God would blot me (exrock) out of the book of life and one day

i had a vision and God said "I will not blot you out..."

Are you concluding that God would blot me out or can you SEE that God is reassuring that he won't and not to listen to Butero.

another twist to throw at you...read the rest of the passage. do you think he will confess the name of every person in the book?

this is a reward.

Stay away from the letters because people wrestle with them. lol

i would be more than happy to address any scriptures that talk about losing salvation but keep awa from Rev. and parables because

we'll be discussing scripture thats not straight forward. IMO

[Guest LadyC]

OSAS=once saved always saved.

it's a doctrine, not a denomination. and you DO subscribe to that doctrine. now that you know what it means, perhaps you won't be so annoyed when someone refers to you as such.

[exrockstar]

Now to Exrockstar. You made the statement that you don't like to discuss scriptures with those who aren't humble and don't search for the truth? I would bet I have spent many more hours searching scripture than you have. I have read the New Testament through more than 20 times and the Old Testament through 13 times. I have also taken the time to study subjects like OSAS in depth, as well as numerous other subjects in scripture. I have also read many of the writings of the church Fathers, apocryphal books, books about the Bible, comparing Greek and Hebrew words to English, etc. To make out like I have not searched for truth is completely false. How many times have you read the Bible? How much study time have you put in? I don't like getting into contests of who puts the most study time into the Bible, because that makes it out like I am saying some people are unqualified to speak on a topic, but since you seemed to be implying that those who don't accept OSAS aren't humble and not searching for truth, I felt it valid to show how absurd your claims are.

As for you having a vision, what does that have to do with anything? Are you actually telling me that I am supposed to place a vision someone has above the written Word? Then one more thing. Revelation and the Parables are part of scripture. I am really leary about people insisting we abstain from using certain books when discussing doctrine. I had someone else claiming we can't build doctrine from the book of Acts.

2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

im not even criticizing what you know. i am sure youve read a lot.

we believe the word of God has no errors. right?

you can build your foundation from straight forward scripture such as:

1 John 5:12 (King James Version)

12 He that hath the Son hath (eternal) life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not (eternal) life.

straight forward clean cut scripture.

honestly i never asked you...do you believe in OSAS?

do you believe God can blot out names?

[exrockstar]

Here is something else that seems straight forward. 1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." Obviously Paul was saved, but even he realized it was possible to become a castaway if he ceased to follow God. It all comes down to interpretation. That is why that while I don't agree with the OSAS doctrine, I respect the opinion of those who do. I don't go around claiming they are preaching a license to sin and things like that because many of them live better than those who reject OSAS. It is more a matter of committment than anything.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means,

when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

is he a castaway to God OR....is he telling the Corinthians that since he preaches to others that if he doesnt

keep himself under discpline that he will be a castaway to his ministry?

we see that all the time. There is a church with many members then one day the pastor does something that the church

has lost respect for him. That pastor has such a responisibility that he may be labeled a castaway to the church member's eyes.

Paul wasnt talking about losing salvation. Paul was recognizing the responsibility he had.

Think about it...if Paul would of not kept his mind, body and soul under control then the churches he was establishing would of <insert thought here>.