Scarletprayers Posted May 29, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted May 29, 2007 One thing that is important to remember is the interpretation is objective, and application is subjective. Often people treat interpretation as a subjective thing... "That's YOUR interpretation." That is not how interpretation works. Interpretation is based on the intent of the author, and nothing else. People get confused and treat the application as the interepretation and that is why arguments occur. God may minister the same passage of Scripture to two different people with two completely different needs. That will necessarily affect how they view that passage. However, instead of recognizing that the same passage can be applied in different ways to different needs, they mistakenly think that the way God ministered it to them is THE interpretation, and anyone who has a different experience with that passage is "wrong." It is a common error, and frankly highlights why more training in this area is needed in the Church. We have to get passed the silly notion that using your brain quenches the Spirit, though. Thanks Shiloh, thats a great explanation! I must admit to being guilty of doing that very thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted May 29, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.12 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2007 One thing that is important to remember is the interpretation is objective, and application is subjective. Often people treat interpretation as a subjective thing... "That's YOUR interpretation." That is not how interpretation works. Interpretation is based on the intent of the author, and nothing else. People get confused and treat the application as the interepretation and that is why arguments occur. God may minister the same passage of Scripture to two different people with two completely different needs. That will necessarily affect how they view that passage. However, instead of recognizing that the same passage can be applied in different ways to different needs, they mistakenly think that the way God ministered it to them is THE interpretation, and anyone who has a different experience with that passage is "wrong." It is a common error, and frankly highlights why more training in this area is needed in the Church. We have to get passed the silly notion that using your brain quenches the Spirit, though. Yep, that pretty much sums up how we mortals can't see anything we don't want to see. The question is...how to know when one is doing this and how to get around it. The 'know it all' attitude (and I admit I'm guilty of this) does cause arguments, not only on forums, but in daily life as well. It also precludes learning when you're busy trying to outargue someone. Maybe the key is to learn some humility? Not an easy thing for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted May 29, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 One thing that is important to remember is the interpretation is objective, and application is subjective. Often people treat interpretation as a subjective thing... "That's YOUR interpretation." That is not how interpretation works. Interpretation is based on the intent of the author, and nothing else. People get confused and treat the application as the interepretation and that is why arguments occur. God may minister the same passage of Scripture to two different people with two completely different needs. That will necessarily affect how they view that passage. However, instead of recognizing that the same passage can be applied in different ways to different needs, they mistakenly think that the way God ministered it to them is THE interpretation, and anyone who has a different experience with that passage is "wrong." It is a common error, and frankly highlights why more training in this area is needed in the Church. We have to get passed the silly notion that using your brain quenches the Spirit, though. Yep, that pretty much sums up how we mortals can't see anything we don't want to see. The question is...how to know when one is doing this and how to get around it. The 'know it all' attitude (and I admit I'm guilty of this) does cause arguments, not only on forums, but in daily life as well. It also precludes learning when you're busy trying to outargue someone. Maybe the key is to learn some humility? Not an easy thing for most of us. It's constantly challenging yourself to pay attention to the evidence. You approach the Bible as a jury member, only on this jury you hear a multitude of sides. You look for the side with the most convincing evidence, even if it challenges your view of scripture. Even within the last year, there have been ideas and passages that have changed in my own life simply because of proper interpretation. I used to use parts of Acts to justify socialist beliefs (you can even look up threads where I did this) - after examining the passages though, I was forced to change my mind. No matter what I did, I could not justify what I was saying. Thus, there has to be an active move on the part of the interpreter to put all bias aside when approaching scripture. Though this will not mean people will reach complete agreement, what it does mean is you're at least trying. You have to be willing to throw away certain doctrines when doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 29, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.58 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2007 One thing that is important to remember is the interpretation is objective, and application is subjective. Often people treat interpretation as a subjective thing... "That's YOUR interpretation." That is not how interpretation works. Interpretation is based on the intent of the author, and nothing else. People get confused and treat the application as the interepretation and that is why arguments occur. God may minister the same passage of Scripture to two different people with two completely different needs. That will necessarily affect how they view that passage. However, instead of recognizing that the same passage can be applied in different ways to different needs, they mistakenly think that the way God ministered it to them is THE interpretation, and anyone who has a different experience with that passage is "wrong." It is a common error, and frankly highlights why more training in this area is needed in the Church. We have to get passed the silly notion that using your brain quenches the Spirit, though. Thanks Shiloh, thats a great explanation! I must admit to being guilty of doing that very thing. Thats correct. Every passage has one and only one meaning or interpretation. It can have many applications. But any application must be in line with the single meaning of the text in question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted May 30, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/12/1945 Share Posted May 30, 2007 It is not unusual in discussions such as this to exaggerate the other point of view for the purposes of rebutting it. It seems to me that suggesting one position opposes using your brain at all, while the other position proposes relying solely on using your brain, are equally distorted. I think it is really a matter of emphasis: one will spend more time in prayer and waiting on the Holy Spirit to reveal God's Word, while the other will spend more time in exegetical analysis. Both approaches are helpful, and one without the other, will not succeed in arriving at the truth. Having said that, I believe intellectual analysis can only provide a basis for considering the range of possible interpretations of Scripture. We must rely on the Holy Spirit to provide the ultimate confirmation of Truth. As humans, even if we had an infallible method of analytical investigation, not one of us could apply it infallibly. Our mental conceptions will always contain elements of error. That there is one true interpretation of Scripture (sometimes with varying applications in our personal lives) is generally agreed by all. It seems unlikely to me that any one person will correctly understand every teaching of Scripture perfectly. However, I do believe that the Holy Spirit will guide each one into the portion that is right for him/her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 It is not unusual in discussions such as this to exaggerate the other point of view for the purposes of rebutting it. It seems to me that suggesting one position opposes using your brain at all, while the other position proposes relying solely on using your brain, are equally distorted Not really. In the 4 years I have been here, I have run across many people who denigrate Hermenuetics as worldly, and that it amounts to nothing but the words of men and is treated as useless. We have had several people who poo-poo hermenuetics and you can see it in several threads where the subject has come up. Having said that, I believe intellectual analysis can only provide a basis for considering the range of possible interpretations of Scripture. There is no such thing as "range of interpretations." That is a contradiction. There is a range of applications, but not interpretations. Every passage in Scripture has only one interpretation, and it is limited to the intent of the author and the object he has in view. Again, you are trying to address an issue which you demonstrate that you don't have a clear grasp of. That is not an put down, but just an observation. We must rely on the Holy Spirit to provide the ultimate confirmation of Truth. As humans, even if we had an infallible method of analytical investigation, not one of us could apply it infallibly. Our mental conceptions will always contain elements of error. Well, none of can claim to listen to the Holy Spirit perfectly, either. No one said that hermenuetics are infallible, but neither can we claim that we hear infallibly from the Holy Spirit. Anyone can get up and say, "The Holy Spirit told me..." I have seen a lot of sloppy theology blamed on the Holy Spirit. Hermenuetics provide a basis for scrutininizing and testing what people claim to be a "revelation" from God. Of course, hermenuetics is a poison pill for those who would prefer for us to simply accept what they say as being from God. Sure, we could retort to a false teacher that the Holy Spirit told us that their teaching is wrong, but then it is just our word against theirs. It seems unlikely to me that any one person will correctly understand every teaching of Scripture perfectly. You are (again) objecting to an argument that has not been raised. No one has said that hermenuetics will cause you to undersand the Bible perfectly. The Bible contains eternal wisdom that is not fully comprehendable by the human mind. That is granted, but really kind of misses the point of what hermenuetics are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted May 30, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/12/1945 Share Posted May 30, 2007 (edited) There is no such thing as "range of interpretations." That is a contradiction. There is a range of applications, but not interpretations. Every passage in Scripture has only one interpretation, and it is limited to the intent of the author and the object he has in view. As you can see, I said "range of possible interpretations". I also said: "That there is one true interpretation of Scripture (sometimes with varying applications in our personal lives) is generally agreed by all." For example, there are a range of possible interpretations of Genesis chapter 1 - that there is one true interpretation, I have no doubt! Again, you are trying to address an issue which you demonstrate that you don't have a clear grasp of. That is not an put down, but just an observation. It is my opinion that observations about a person's perceived failings are unnecessary. Posts are usually far more effective without personal comments that might be construed as disaparaging. You are (again) objecting to an argument that has not been raised. Like most people, my posts contain general comments as well as addressing specific issues raised. Sometimes (like the first para in your last post) it is a reference to what one has encountered elsewhere. Having some experience with a number of discussion groups, I am aware that the principles of hermeneutics are appealed to for support by a wide diversity of theological perspectives ("you are wrong because you have not considered the cultural context; or you do not understand the author's intent"; etc.) Sometimes these criticisms are valid and sometimes they are not, but the application of hermeneutics can only be a guide at best. This approach can never be the source of absolute truth. (And before you say no one said that - again - please read my first sentence again Edited May 30, 2007 by kenod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted May 30, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/12/1945 Share Posted May 30, 2007 (edited) Both the guidance of the Holy Spirit AND good exegesis should be used! That is a sound approach. I am sure you have encountered situations where Bible scholars, studiously applying their knowledge of exegetical principles, have come up with opposing points of view, and I wonder how you resolve such situations. Some questions are not vitally important (What was the exact order of events at the tomb on resurrection morning?), and some are very important (Should baptism be by immersion or not, and does it matter?). Edited May 30, 2007 by kenod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 30, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.58 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2007 Both the guidance of the Holy Spirit AND good exegesis should be used! That is a sound approach. I am sure you have encountered situations where Bible scholars, studiously applying their knowledge of exegetical principles, have come up with opposing points of view, and I wonder how you resolve such situations. Some questions are not vitally important (What was the exact order of events at the tomb on resurrection morning?), and some are very important (Should baptism be by immersion or not, and does it matter?). I agree. Simply having a sound methodology does not guarantee that one will arrive at the text's meaning. Illumination by the Holy Spirit is essential in understanding the text. But, one should not abandon sound hermeneutical principles just because we are engaged in a spiritual activity. God chose to revel Himself through the agancy of human literature. So using sound interpretive principles is essential for partnering with the Holy Spirit to ascertain meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted May 30, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Both the guidance of the Holy Spirit AND good exegesis should be used! That is a sound approach. I am sure you have encountered situations where Bible scholars, studiously applying their knowledge of exegetical principles, have come up with opposing points of view, and I wonder how you resolve such situations. Some questions are not vitally important (What was the exact order of events at the tomb on resurrection morning?), and some are very important (Should baptism be by immersion or not, and does it matter?). I agree. Simply having a sound methodology does not guarantee that one will arrive at the text's meaning. Illumination by the Holy Spirit is essential in understanding the text. But, one should not abandon sound hermeneutical principles just because we are engaged in a spiritual activity. God chose to revel Himself through the agancy of human literature. So using sound interpretive principles is essential for partnering with the Holy Spirit to ascertain meaning. Well spoken. Exactly!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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