Matthew 18

[EricH]

WARNING WARNING WARNING - Danger Will Robinson -

We frown on hit and run PMs. At least I do. How can you REASON TOGETHER if you cut off access for the other.

I agree with what was said about not letting it bother you, don't go down the same rabbit trail as the one offending you, etc. I agree wholeheartedly. Don't let them rob you, just like Wayne said.

On the other hand, if you are purposely being targeted, and unable to reason together - then report it. It if happens again, it will be dealt with.

The private message system is a privilege. Don't abuse it.

Thats right. If there is an abuse of the PM privilege, please report it to us

[dugmando]

Hey AK

Just repeat this prayer

nan-nan-nan-nuh I am rubber you are glue what you say bounces off me and sticks to you!

JUST KIDDING

Dug

[Kabowd]

Frankly, in a situation like this, I consider it more than just an abuse of PM priveledges. It's also an abuse of Matthew 18. These verses were not intended to be used as a weapon against another brother or sister, but to be used as a sincere attempt to bring reconciliation and healing. If someone uses these verses in this manner, it is in fact a misuse. It not only harms the other person, but it is no doubt offensive to God because of the mishandling of His word.

[Guest Biblicist]

After thinking about this thread these verses came to my mind.

Matthew 5: 23-24

23 "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.

In my Bible these verses are in conjunction with Matthew 18. . .

As Christians we should always try to reconcile with a brother, before we present our offering at the alter [take communion]. We should always try to make ammends, no matter the cost. We are brother's and sister's in Christ. We will be spending eternity together, might as well get used to it now.

[apothanein kerdos]

After thinking about this thread these verses came to my mind.

Matthew 5: 23-24

23 "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.

In my Bible these verses are in conjunction with Matthew 18. . .

As Christians we should always try to reconcile with a brother, before we present our offering at the alter [take communion]. We should always try to make ammends, no matter the cost. We are brother's and sister's in Christ. We will be spending eternity together, might as well get used to it now.

How do you do that if the person ignores you?

[Vickilynn]

After thinking about this thread these verses came to my mind.

Matthew 5: 23-24

23 "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.

In my Bible these verses are in conjunction with Matthew 18. . .

As Christians we should always try to reconcile with a brother, before we present our offering at the alter [take communion]. We should always try to make ammends, no matter the cost. We are brother's and sister's in Christ. We will be spending eternity together, might as well get used to it now.

Shalom Bib,

Amen and amen.

[apothanein kerdos]

Shalom AK,

I usually ignore your posts, but since I know your motivation here, I'll reply this time, but I won't be reading or replying to any more of your posts.

Loving criticism according to Matthew 18 is not a "nasty" PM. If a brother or sister reaches out to another to try to help them by pointing out something that may help them in their walk, this is G-d's Word and the person is being obedient. As I said before, the person who receives the PM should take the content of the PM to the L-RD humbly and see if there be any truth to it. They should not take the PM to their buddies and it's not necessary to reply to the person. It needs to go to G-d. And, if the PM is in the spirit of Matthew 18, no, they should not get offended and angry and should not gossip about it to everyone else but G-d. The person getting the PM can decide whether to accept the advice or not.

Now, if someone sending a harassing or rude or "nasty" PM and there is no edification or truth in it, the person, again should take it to the L-rd, pray for the writer, forgive the writer and report it to the Moderators.

If the person is unsure WHICH it is, loving rebuke or just ol' nastiness, they should seek the L-rd, and send the PM to the Mods to decide. The Moderators can contact the person if it is determined it is harassment, as this violates TOS.

Over and out!

This is all subjective, hinging on whether the person sending the PM really has an issue. They might not. It might just be a personality conflict that has gotten blown out of proportion by one person or the other. Your reply infers that the person sending the PM is justified and that may not be the case, they might be as wrong as the day is long. They should at least be willing to hear what the other person has to say.

Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.

It says "between the two of you", which implies a dialogue, not telling the other person what they did wrong and then running away. The problem needs to be solved between the two parties. There is no way to do that if only one person can do the talking.

I think this is a point that keeps going ignored. If we're going to confront someone, we have to be willing to listen to their side of the story. Often times our confrontation can be wrought out of a misunderstanding. Likewise, if it got heated, chances are both people were wrong. There are very few instances where we can claim we are 100% perfect in our dealings with people.

The "instigator" of the correction must realize that he or she may not always be correct in his or her correction. In fact, he or she could be open to a response from the other side. If it's nasty, then take it to a higher authority. However, Cobalt is correct - if you're going to rely on Matthew 18, you MUST let the other person respond...otherwise how do you know when to take it to the next step?

[Guest Biblicist]

How do you do that if the person ignores you?

You know AK, I really wish I had the answer to that.

There is a person, not here, in real life, that thinks I wronged her. She truly hates me and blames me for something awful. I do not know how I could make ammends with her. She would not take a call or read a letter from me. She has no church or pastor. Honestly, I don't know where I would begin.

In this instance I just have to let go and let God handle her heart. Possibly she will one day forgive me for the things she thinks I did. It is possible that she doesn't really believe I did them at all, they were just an excuse she used to get out of the situation she was in. Regardless, the resentment I believe she feels weighs heavily on my heart. Every communion Sunday I pray that she forgives me.

If I ever figure it out, though, I promise you will be the first to know. I do know, love cover's over a multitude of sins, and refusal to forgive is a sin. So just love the person and pray for them. If the opportunity ever arrises to make ammends, take it.

[Vickilynn]

How do you do that if the person ignores you?

You know AK, I really wish I had the answer to that.

There is a person, not here, in real life, that thinks I wronged her. She truly hates me and blames me for something awful. I do not know how I could make ammends with her. She would not take a call or read a letter from me. She has no church or pastor. Honestly, I don't know where I would begin.

In this instance I just have to let go and let God handle her heart. Possibly she will one day forgive me for the things she thinks I did. It is possible that she doesn't really believe I did them at all, they were just an excuse she used to get out of the situation she was in. Regardless, the resentment I believe she feels weighs heavily on my heart. Every communion Sunday I pray that she forgives me.

If I ever figure it out, though, I promise you will be the first to know. I do know, love cover's over a multitude of sins, and refusal to forgive is a sin. So just love the person and pray for them. If the opportunity ever arrises to make ammends, take it.

Shalom Bib,

Excellent post. A truly Christian, Biblical response.

[Guest Biblicist]

Vickilynn, Thanks

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AK,

I read this last night, thought I'd share it. It comes from the book I'm reading at present The Christian Counselor's Manual ~ The Practice of Nouthetic Counceling by Jay E. Adams. Fantastic book by the way.

Under Chapter 8 The Reconciliation/Discipline Dynamic

People often ask: "Wouldn't it be better just to let the matter die and not raise the question afresh, thereby starting more trouble?" The issue resolves itself to this: whether or not the offended person really finds it possible to let the problem die. Proverbs 10:12 says, "Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers over a multitude of sins." Plainly every rub and offense cannot be raised and settled. We must learn, in love, to forgive and pass by many slights, annoyances, and offenses. Christ is not speaking of these in Matthew 5 and 18. There (Matthew 5:23) He is considering a case where a brother "has (or "holds) something against" another (echei ti kata sou) and when it is necessary to regain (Matt 18:15) one's brother (ederdesas). Rather, he speaks of those offenses that brethren find it difficult to "cover". If a matter is likely to rattle around inside or carry over till the next day, it should be handled. To put it another way, if an offense drives a wedge between Christian brothers, the wedge must be removed by reconciliation. To say it a third way: anything that causes an unreconciled condition to exist between brethren must be dealt with.

Further the author states,

In Matthew 5:21-26 Christ says, if you are offering your gift at the alter and you realize that you have done something against your brother (or he thinks you have), drop your gift and first go and get the matter straightened out with your brother. Then (tote, "at that time": then and only then), He continues, may you come back and finish your act of worship.

These words clearly state that there is an urgency to reconciliation. . . Unreconciled relationships, therefore constitute emergency priorties that may not be handled casually or at one's leisure.

In Matthew 18, the other side of the question is handled: if your brother has done something against you, again you must go. It is always your obligation to make the first move (as also it is his); you may never say "He should have come to me!" Jesus doesn't allow for that. Whether you have done something to him or he has done something to you, in either case (Matthew 5 & 18), you are to go. Christ left no loopholes, he covered all the bases.

Picture two brothers who have had a quarrel and go off in a huff. When they both cool down, ideally they ought to meet one another on the way to each other's house seeking reconciliation.

I have a question though. . . What if the offended person is an unbeliever. My cousin believes she has been sorely offended by my mother. She is very angry at her. Is there standard in God's word for handling reconciliation in a manner involving a Believer and a non-Believer? It would help if I could give my mother some verses to show her that she should, in fact, approach my cousin, her neice, to make ammends. She does not think she has done anything wrong and does not see the benefit in making things right.