Are YEC's and literalists harmful to the faith?

[undone]

So, is there any truth to the notion that YEC's and literalists are damaging to the faith?

I personally don't think so. My faith is what it is. I didn't become a Christian because of the Genesis or Old Testament stories. I am a Christian because I believe in Jesus Christ and what the New Testament says about him.

What about you? What do you think?

All of the arguing between OECs and YECs fails to produce anything but more argument. I don't think the positions taken by YECs are damaging to the faith at all. People will continue to believe what they believe regardless of the heated debate; ever hear of anyone who lost their faith because of this issue? How about a nonbeliever that went screaming into the night because of it? Neither have I.

I, personally, don't see a conflict between the Old Earth scenario (which is proven by the fossil record) and the Young earth proponent's insistence that the earth is only six thousand years old. We know that dinosaurs and the like vanished from the planet millions of years ago. Why is it assumed that there was only one creation? It's my belief that the earth has existed for eons, and went through many, many 'revisions' (homanids come to mind), before the Lord decided on his greatest creation, Man. This was the time of Creation, correctly recorded in Genesis at about 4,000 B.C. God isn't limited by time and space and yet we keep trying to make His actions conform to our reality. In engineer-speak, you have to 'think outside the box' and, honestly, you have to approach both sides of the argument with an open mind.

Thanks for your post Glory

My allegiance to YEC has less to do with being close minded and is more about preserving the Word of God as it was given to us. I realize there are reasons to conclude what Old Earthers conclude. The idea from the article posted earlier about separate paradigms is interesting. If a person has a useful reason to operate with old earth theories, then they should. However, I have little reason to use this information as it does nothing to enhance my knowledge of God's Word. I would hate to think that my allegience to a traditional interpretation would have a repelling effect on a non-believer. I also think it's a stretch for anyone to try and bend the meaning of scripture to fit an old earth world-view. I've never been to seminary, but I've heard pleeeenty of sermons from some of the countries most respected evangelical teachers/preachers and have yet to hear even the slightest hint that we've had wrong all these years. Dr. Graham of Prestonwood Baptist (Plano, Texas - megachurch just outside of Dallas) recently gave a sermon on this topic and was unwilling to bend it's meaning despite what science has to say. He, like me, realizes that some may question his credibility, but he felt his committment to the scriptures was more important then what some people may think of him.

[MorningGlory]

He, like me, realizes that some may question his credibility, but he felt his committment to the scriptures was more important then what some people may think of him.

One should hold tight to what he really believes, undone. It's always bothered me to see those that flit from belief to belief like a moronic butterfly. I will agree with you that you have to be true to the Lord, and to yourself, regardless of what others think. As I said, I doubt this issue will drive anyone away. Nor do I think our entrance into the Kingdom will be contingent upon believing in one theory or the other. I believe that, as long as we believe in Him, we'll be okay. God KNOWS we humans don't know very much about anything and will make allowances, I'm sure.

[Guest StElsewhere]

Hi

[undone]

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Stand Firm

13But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

16May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

Could this passage of scripture be referring to things like abiogenesis and macro-evolution? I can't see how you could absolutely deny that it could.

[MorningGlory]

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Stand Firm

13But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

16May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

Could this passage of scripture be referring to things like abiogenesis and macro-evolution? I can't see how you could absolutely deny that it could.

A little definition would help, undone. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't quite get your meaning.

[undone]

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Stand Firm

13But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

16May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

Could this passage of scripture be referring to things like abiogenesis and macro-evolution? I can't see how you could absolutely deny that it could.

A little definition would help, undone. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't quite get your meaning.

Could abiogenesis and macro-evolution be a counterfeit sign or evil that deceives those who are perishing? One who believes in these things should consider that possibility.

[MorningGlory]

A little definition would help, undone. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't quite get your meaning.

Could abiogenesis and macro-evolution be a counterfeit sign or evil that deceives those who are perishing? One who believes in these things should consider that possibility.

Hmmm....I see what you mean. I'm not sure if these things are counterfeit or evil, that may be so; although I believe in evolution as it applies to variation within a species (other than humans) I certainly don't believe that any species ever evolved into another. I AM sure that anyone who believes that Man appeared upon the earth by any means other the hand of God is terribly decieved.

[Hypathia]

So, is there any truth to the notion that YEC's and literalists are damaging to the faith?

What about you? What do you think?

Yes, definitely. It's like saying God is only 6000 years old. Even the ancients (BC) knew that the earth was very old, not flat, and that the earth was not the center of the universe. Saying the earth is young is tatamount to the medieval church saying it was flat and the center of the universe.

So yes it is very damaging to the faith in my opinion.

Edited July 11, 2007 by Hypathia

[Phostenix]

As a YEC literalist, I certainly don't think I'm harming the faith.

I'm interested in the YEC discussion for several reasons, the main one being the fact that evolution is built upon a foundation of millions of years. That is why it's so important to skeptics. If the earth is young, evolution is impossible. It is my understanding that the idea of the earth being millions or billions of years old did not come into play until theories of evolution started to appear. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If we are truly concerned about not believing in things that might be mocked by "scientific" people, we better throw out a global flood, the virgin birth, the resurrection, the ascension, and many other doctrines. I get mocked over these concepts every time they come up with skeptics.

Grace and peace,

Steve

Edited July 13, 2007 by ST in Phoenix

[Phostenix]

Oh, I forgot to add that I think it is important that we, as Christians, can engage skeptics on issues of science with more than, "I don't know about all that science stuff, I just know what I believe." There are some great web sites now that address the questions skeptics have. They may not agree with the answers, but we certainly are not without defense.

Edited July 13, 2007 by ST in Phoenix