Gay Pastor Conducts Tammy Faye Service

[Shortstop]

one of my friends is openly gay...

Is this friend a Christian?

He is a believe in Christ Jesus, yes....

Does he realize that his lifestyle is sinful? No

Do I judge him for it? No

have you shared the truth with him, that his lifestyle is sinful and will keep him eternally separated from God if he doesn't repent? if you have, then a big thumbs up. (friends don't let friends drive drunk....) if you haven't, is it because you are afraid you will be perceived as judgmental?

I am sorry I had to crack a grin when I read your reply...No one has ever accused me of being afraid to speak up....Sorry, that just made me grin...

Yes, I have shared the good news with him...

Yes, I shared with him about how his lifestyle is sinful and what can become of it if he does not change...

[Shortstop]

one of my friends is openly gay...

Is this friend a Christian?

He is a believe in Christ Jesus, yes....

Does he realize that his lifestyle is sinful? No

Do I judge him for it? No

He doesn't know his lifestyle is sinful? If that is the case, shouldn't you tell him? Even Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. He didn't simply run her accusers off and condone her sin.

He has been told, does he believe it, NO...

I never said I didn't tell him...

[Shortstop]

Is not the church for those who are "sick" and in need of help? If those who are mature go OUT and preach the message Jesus preached while on this earth, maybe the "city" would not be as sick as it is today...

Church is not about sitting in your Sunday's finest, shiniest car in the parking lot, best said statement, best show on the altar.....It's about reaching out to those who are lost.

If a gay man or woman walked into your church, would you kick them out? Would you preached them right out the door? Or would you love them enough so that the LIGHT of JESUS CHRIST shined so through YOU that --that is what made the difference for that gay man or woman to change their sinful life style...

Actually you are quite in error. According to Ephesians, the Church is for believers. At any rate, the gay church (Open Door Community Church), whose website may be found by Googling for it, is as far from G-d as one can get. It is a stench and abomination in G-d's nostrils, and those participating in it will be judged harshly for leading so many astray.

Can you please post the particular scripture in Ephesians you are referring to? Thanks...

I don't know about the church you posted...I am not a gay individual, but one of my friends is openly gay...If I was to push him out of my life because I am a woman who is married, and a believer, the LOVE of Christ is not shining through me...Where I draw the line is that I do not particpate in his life, lifestyle...When I talk to him, it is about the love of Christ...If that makes me a person who is pushed out of fellowship by you or anyone else, then your church is not one I would attend, because it lacks the love of Christ...

Those who choose to continue in their sin, will be judged by GOD...But then again we are all sinners...

It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Eph 4:11-14

That text you quoted still does relay that the church is for the believers...If we are the temple: 1 Cor. 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? This would be that each person is a type of church...When we gather together we form the body of Christ....We are not to preach to one another BUT to those WHO are lost...For we are no longer LOST!....So, your telling me that the church is for those who are saved and we are not to preach to the lost in church because church is for the saved?

[Guest LadyC]

Someone suggested that they shouldn't compare homosexuals to child rapists, and they replied by saying that's watering down the Gospel, thereby condoning the comparison.

that's untrue. nobody here suggested anything like what you are saying they did. perhaps chrisb could have communicated it more clearly, but he was NOT saying that it waters down the gospel if we fail to make a comparison between gays and pedophiles. that would have been a silly thing to do. his point was SIN separates us from God. it doesn't matter if the person is a pedophile or a homosexual or anything else. we HAVE to teach them the truth from the pulpit, whether that pulpit is in a church building or on a message board.... and that truth is that regardless of what sin they harbor, they have to repent and submit their lives to Jesus or they will never enter the kingdom of heaven. period.

he was referring to YOUR comment that we have to bring people into church before we clean up the pollution, and he was pointing out that many churches bring them in and embrace the pollution rather than cleaning it up.

"we frequently compare the SIN of homosexuality to the sin of a pedophile."

- Clever.

not clever. accurate.

"homosexuals claim they are born that way, that it's somehow genetic. it is not, and that is where the comparison lies."

- And you have proof? How do you know it's not due to prenatal hormonal influences or the interplay of BOTH genes and the environment? How do you know it doesn't have multiple causes?

there has been extensive research for decades trying to prove exactly what you have just insisted. to this day, despite the bajillions of big bucks thrown into studying and research, not one single shred of evidence supports any genetic link to homosexuality. so i don't know why you're asking me for proof when you can't even begin to back up your position.

"you're choosing to zoom in on pedophilia as what we compare the sin of homosexuality to"

- Because the comparison to pedophilia is meant to draw an especially heinous distinction that is not normally used for heterosexual sins.

at least you admit you're honing in on one comparison because it doesn't sit well with you. but it doesn't change the facts. people here use ALL MANNER of sexual sin as a comparison, NOT just the one that conjures up the most anger in you. and to God, all of it is heinous. it's humans that try to make a greyscale measuring stick.

[Guest LadyC]

I am sorry I had to crack a grin when I read your reply...No one has ever accused me of being afraid to speak up....Sorry, that just made me grin...

Yes, I have shared the good news with him...

Yes, I shared with him about how his lifestyle is sinful and what can become of it if he does not change...

shortstop, that's wonderful... that is the mark of a TRUE friend. you've done what you can, you've planted the seed. what you can continue to do is PRAY, without ceasing, that God will bring the seed you have planted to harvest.

[Marnie]

Is not the church for those who are "sick" and in need of help? If those who are mature go OUT and preach the message Jesus preached while on this earth, maybe the "city" would not be as sick as it is today...

Church is not about sitting in your Sunday's finest, shiniest car in the parking lot, best said statement, best show on the altar.....It's about reaching out to those who are lost.

If a gay man or woman walked into your church, would you kick them out? Would you preached them right out the door? Or would you love them enough so that the LIGHT of JESUS CHRIST shined so through YOU that --that is what made the difference for that gay man or woman to change their sinful life style...

Actually you are quite in error. According to Ephesians, the Church is for believers. At any rate, the gay church (Open Door Community Church), whose website may be found by Googling for it, is as far from G-d as one can get. It is a stench and abomination in G-d's nostrils, and those participating in it will be judged harshly for leading so many astray.

Can you please post the particular scripture in Ephesians you are referring to? Thanks...

I don't know about the church you posted...I am not a gay individual, but one of my friends is openly gay...If I was to push him out of my life because I am a woman who is married, and a believer, the LOVE of Christ is not shining through me...Where I draw the line is that I do not particpate in his life, lifestyle...When I talk to him, it is about the love of Christ...If that makes me a person who is pushed out of fellowship by you or anyone else, then your church is not one I would attend, because it lacks the love of Christ...

Those who choose to continue in their sin, will be judged by GOD...But then again we are all sinners...

It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Eph 4:11-14

That text you quoted still does relay that the church is for the believers...If we are the temple: 1 Cor. 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? This would be that each person is a type of church...When we gather together we form the body of Christ....We are not to preach to one another BUT to those WHO are lost...For we are no longer LOST!....So, your telling me that the church is for those who are saved and we are not to preach to the lost in church because church is for the saved?

Read the underlined portions. The church, as an institution, is where G-d's people gather to be taught. Unsaved people are not part of the Body of Christ. I'm not sure why you are having trouble with this concept; it's pretty clearly spelled out in the Word. The saints, us, are taught how to share our faith, then we go out into the world, witness for Christ, and bring back a convert to church, to start the process with them. It's not rocket science. But it is somewhat off topic, I think. If we need to go further with this, you may PM me.

[forrestkc]

forrest, i despise when people put words in my mouth. i'm not in favor of homosexuals being imprisoned or tortured, nor am i aware of any christian who is. so you owe everyone on this board an apology for having made such a crass and bogus mischaracterization.

by my own logic, i say nothing of the sort. by GOD'S logic, i say this. NONE of us are "perfectly decent people". we all commit sin on a daily basis. there is no grey line here, it's black and white.... repentance brings restoration and justification to our souls. unrepentance brings judgement and condemnation. God's judgement and condemnation.

neither the liar, the thief, the homosexual, the pedophile, the necromancer, the murderer, the adulterer, nor anyone else is exempt from that truth. there are only two ships in this ocean... the one that holds those who repent, and the one that holds those who don't.

I am not putting words into your mouth, I am simply making the conclusion that most people would come to hearing such rhetoric. Which is my point, people need to think not just whether their statements about sensitive issues are correct from a biblical literalist point of view, but also how those would be construed by others. By comparing the lifestyle of gays and lesbians to pedophiles, which is a comparison that reasonable people simply do not make in the year 2007, you are equating them, regardless of how you phrase it, to child rapists. One can say that something is a sin, and that it is unbiblical, without taking the additional step of comparing it to pedophiles. Most people consider pedophiles to be the worst scum on the face of the earth, the absolute lowest of the low. We hold murderers in higher regard than we do child molesters. Think about that next time you compare the lifestyles of gays and lesbians to them.

[Guest LadyC]

then you've come to an erroneous conclusion, and still made a mishcaracterization that warrants an apology.

and again, we're all scum by God's standards. we compare this sin to all other sins, particularly of a sexual nature. there are those who will focus in only on the pedophile/child-rapists (not sure why there's a need for distinction there, they are the same thing...) like you and hepatocyte are doing. that's a shame, because you're missing out on the bigger picture that we are trying to paint. both are detestable, just as prostitution or adultery are. there is no difference here. they're all sinful acts that keep us from God.

[forrestkc]

then you've come to an erroneous conclusion, and still made a mishcaracterization that warrants an apology.

and again, we're all scum by God's standards. we compare this sin to all other sins, particularly of a sexual nature. there are those who will focus in only on the pedophile/child-rapists (not sure why there's a need for distinction there, they are the same thing...) like you and hepatocyte are doing. that's a shame, because you're missing out on the bigger picture that we are trying to paint. both are detestable, just as prostitution or adultery are. there is no difference here. they're all sinful acts that keep us from God.

Do I need to dig up all the statements on here that have been made about gays and lesbians and how many times they have been compared to Child Molesters? I am saying that you guys need to think about how your statements would be construed and not make such comparisons because regardless of your intentions, they come off as extremely mean spirited.

I am not saying that you are mean-spirited, I am saying that you guys need to think about some of these comparisons and how they would probably be construed before you make them.

[forrestkc]

Let me ask you guys this, if you had a son or daughter that was gay or lesbian, would you like your fellow Christians comparing them to Child Molesters?