6000 Years vs. Millions of Years

[Guest avoidcausticpeople]

It really does not explain how the first living cell came about. Think about it - that first cell would already have to have all the information available in it to be able to take in energy and expel waste, to repair damage AND to reproduce. If not - there wouldn't have been a SECOND cell. The problem of information, whether DNA or the messenger RNA, in the original cell, is a huge problem for evolutionists to explain.

excellent post

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

Could GOD have created the Earth with age? He didn't create Adam as a baby but as a full grown man. He created the trees already bearing fruit for Adam and Eve. The animals were also created full grown too.

[kari21]

It really does not explain how the first living cell came about. Think about it - that first cell would already have to have all the information available in it to be able to take in energy and expel waste, to repair damage AND to reproduce. If not - there wouldn't have been a SECOND cell. The problem of information, whether DNA or the messenger RNA, in the original cell, is a huge problem for evolutionists to explain.

You are correct, evolution does not explain how the first living cell came about. Evolution does not attempt to do so. The rest of your post is therefor a strawman.

Jukia, you don't think it's odd that I keep pulling out the foundations of the theory you hold so dear, and yet you refuse to give it up?

[Guest joewildhunter]

You are correct, evolution does not explain how the first living cell came about. Evolution does not attempt to do so.

actually, it does...although long debunked, the hoax of "spontaneous generation" of life was a direct result of Darwinian mythology

as always, the myth of microbes to man evolution has, and will continue, to hinder the progress of true, experimental/empirical science, which points clearly and directly to supremely intelligent and intricate Design

the spontaneous generation of matter and energy, or LIFE, is profoundly absurd, but we live in an age where absurd myths are considered "wisdom"..galaxies randomly spinning themselves into existence from a cloud of gas...it's just beyond words how far atheists/agnostics go to push their silly agenda, in an attempt to give their lives meaning...they have no hope

but it's all been predicted, long ago

professing to be wise, they became fools Romans 1

Edited December 27, 2007 by joewildhunter

[Guest joewildhunter]

The first "cell" as one might call it was not at all like cells we see today.

based on nothing other than pure, worthless speculation...with no more credibility than the Tales of Narnia

see, the Bible has a 3500 year track record, and Israel in 2007 proves it...but the Darwinian hoax has a 150 track record of complete and utter bankrupt failure to support ANY of the wild assertions made regarding true, tangible, positive, progressive change in the gene pool or ANY organism (not selection and genetic drift, which is driven by entropy, and always gets rid of information)

Edited December 27, 2007 by joewildhunter

[kari21]

The first "cell" as one might call it was not at all like cells we see today. It may have been nothing more than a replicator inside some type of membrane coat. First let me try to explain the process of replicator evolution.

The first replicating molecules had to have been really simple, possibly crystals or crystal-like molecules (we know crystals replicate themselves based on a structure determined by the physical and atomic properties of the chemicals involved). Slowly the replicators were subject to small random changes within their structures, and the replicators that were better suited at replicating out-numbered the less suitable ones.

I think Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, B.Sc. (Hons.), Ph.D., (in Chemistry ) answered this the best:

You are failing to distinguish between order and complexity. Crystals are ordered; life is complex. To illustrate: a periodic (repeating) signal, e.g. ABABABABABAB, is an example of order. However, it carries little information: only

[kari21]

Sorry, but you do not "pull out the foundations" of evolution.

Oh? Your answer to 'how did the universe create itself from nothing naturalistically' was, "I don't know."

You answer to 'where did the encoded information in the first primitive cell come from' was, "evolution does not explain how the first living cell came about."

Sounds to me like your foundations are gone.

[kari21]

Sorry, but you do not "pull out the foundations" of evolution.

Oh? Your answer to 'how did the universe create itself from nothing naturalistically' was, "I don't know."

You answer to 'where did the encoded information in the first primitive cell come from' was, "evolution does not explain how the first living cell came about."

Sounds to me like your foundations are gone.

Nope, the foundations are still here.

It strikes me that I have to provide specific details about how the first primitive cell formed several billions of years ago to satisfy you. Yet, you can simply say "Goddidit" just a few thousand years ago and that is supposed to satisfy me. Essplen to me plese Loooocy, exactly how He did it. Should be easy, you have the Bible and it happened not too long ago---just a few thousand, not billion, years ago. Did He use His God hands? Or did he have some big Tonka toy trucks to help? I'm really not trying to be snotty or condescending, but how come you look to science for specific details and when the details are unavailable you discount everything else in the theory's spectrum, yet, you are willing to overlook the same lack of detail on your favorite story? Why is that?

You know one of the signs one is losing a debate? When one starts taunting the other. Jukia, you gave no valuable details on how the first living cell came about from dead matter. None.

I quoted you correctly when you said: "evolution does not explain how the first living cell came about."

Order and complexity are two very different things. You have no idea where the massive amount of information in the cell came from. As any scientist knows, information does not originate from the material that carries it. The message is independent of the material it is written on.

All evidence indicates that it takes intelligence to devise letters or code, and arrange them into instructions. And it is indeed real information. It has been copied onto computers in the Human Genome Project and printed out on paper.

Heck, every scientist knows that a code is the sign of intelligent life. Scientists with the SETI (Search For Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) institute use huge radio telescopes in the hopes of catching ONE signal from space that is not random noise. If they hear just ONE brief signal with a repeatable pattern, they will KNOW intelligent life exists somewhere else in the universe. And that's only one brief signal! Not the MASSIVE amounts of repeatable code in one human cell! Heck, the DNA of a simple bacterium contains as much information as a 1000 page book!

Jukia - encoded information in the cells of all living things is the death knell of evolution. Combine that with the knowledge that the entire universe could not have created itself from nothing, by nothing, and the evolutionary coffin is in the ground.

The reason people accept the evolutionary theory is that it takes God out of the picture, and out of their lives. They are free to sin as they please without guilt - without conscience - and that is very appealing to the unregenerated lost.

Your brief life will end, Jukia. Sooner or later. And you will come face to face with the very God that you deny. And that God will send you to the very hell that you have chosen. You won't be able to bluff past him with psudeo-science or claims that you are a "good" person. Ignorance is no excuse in human law, and it's not with Godly law either.

Wake up before you set your eternity in stone.

[kari21]

I ask a question and get lectured about taunting?

"Did He use His God hands? Or did he have some big Tonka toy trucks to help?"

Hmmmmm....my mistake.

Sweetie you know not of taunting.

I know it when I see it.....sweetie.

Can you answer my question? Exactly how did God do it?

I wasn't there when He did it. But it's obvious that He did it.

Again, you demand that science provide every single answer to each question you have and will not accept "Don't know" as a response without throwing everything else out.

Nope. I don't demand every single answer (unlike atheists). I just want the answers to two questions. How did the universe create itself from nothing by nothing, and how did life and information arise from dead matter. And you provided no answers to either. And the funny thing is, when a Christian cannot answer an atheists question, but say that they may have the answer in the future, they are raked over the coals as having a "pie in the sky, bye and bye" attitude.

I would be careful throwing around the latest fundy anti-science concept of "information". I admit that information theory is over my head. Suspect it is over yours as well, it is pretty sophisticated from what I have seen.

The latest? Encoded information has been a problem for evolutionists since DNA was discovered.

I again suggest you learn some science from sources other than the creationist shills.

Creationist shills? Ahhhh the insults again.

I learned what I know from a simple high school education. But even a dolt with next to no education can tell you even simple common sense says that you can't get something from nothing, and that encoded information is a sign of intelligence.

Watson and Crick realized the code was much simpler

I'm sorry, but that had to be the most intellectually dishonest thing I have heard you say so far. The information in DNA is so far from simple it is beyond imagination. As I have already pointed out, the encoded information just in a "simple" bacterium contains as much code for a 1000 page book.

And I see you have totally ignored what I've said about SETI and one simple repeatable signal as a sure sign of intelligence.

[kari21]

Nope, I was making a comparison between code made of proteins--20 amino acids, perhaps the code is in the shape of the protein as well, and the simple 4 letter DNA code.

There is nothing "simple" about the 4 letter nucleotide DNA code. Even the simplest known living organism has 482 protein-coding genes. This is a total of 580,000