6000 Years vs. Millions of Years

[kari21]

And so, we are back to square one: Where did all the matter and energy from the "cosmic egg" come from?

I don't think anyone knows. But that does not mean that God is necessary.

Oh? Then explain how something came from nothing through naturalistic means.

I cannot. But it does not mean that someone else might not be able to. Nor does it mean that God is necessary.

And they say Christians have a "pie in the sky, bye and bye" outlook on life...

You have no foundation for cosmic evolution to build upon. None. You hope in the future someone will be able to explain how everything came from nothing all by itself. You refuse to see what is right in front of your face.

"Being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;" (Ephesians 4:18)

You come here slamming the idea of God, yet cannot explain how the universe got here through cosmic evolutionary means. The only answer you can give is the hope that "someone else" might.

Well, nobody else has.

So don't come to a Christian site and act so superior and slam people here for being "ignorant of science" when you can't answer the most basic question.

[kari21]

So don't come to a Christian site and act so superior and slam people here for being "ignorant of science" when you can't answer the most basic question.

The question may be basic but neither it nor the answer are simple. If they were simple we would have the answer.

It has been my experience that people who post on Christian sites are often lacking in basic science knowledge. They tend to get their information from creationist web sites like AiG or Kent Hovind's. Those sites are notorious for either misinforming people or simply being dishonest. So I see no reason not to suggest that people who post in sciency type threads to actually learn some along the way. If you think that is acting superior, then you are way too thin-skinned.

Sorry. I learned what I know in school. Not from AIG or any other. I came from a Christian family, and became an atheist when I was old enough to understand evolution. Yet, the more I was taught, the less it made sense. Esp. cosmic evolution. When I spoke with my teachers in regard to what we ourselves are now talking about, they too could not answer the questions. And in fact, gave me the very answer that you have just given: "I don't know, but perhaps we will in the future."

Science actually led me back to God.

Anyone knows that if a house doesn't have a firm foundation, the whole structure will come crashing down. If the evolutionist's do not have answers for the beginning, why trust them for the middle? It's all based on the "science is right, and you just need to accept that, or you are fool and/or a fanatic."

Sorry, but that just doesn't fly for me or most Christians who do understand science.

You are in a bad position, Jukia. You refuse to accept any idea of God, but are at a loss to explain the universe without him.

Ex nihilo nihil fit is a scientific fact that has never been disproven.

[The Lorax]

in your speculative opinion

but you weren't there, so your opinion carries no weight at all

Welcome back, YZ. This is what, your third account? Going for a hat trick?

[AnotherTraveler]

And so, we are back to square one: Where did all the matter and energy from the "cosmic egg" come from?

I don't think anyone knows. But that does not mean that God is necessary.

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Acts 17:28 (KJV)

All things are in Him, from Him, by Him, and for Him. When He speaks, that which has not been in created. Everything that is came from him, and still all things that have existance are in him, like a fish in water, all things are in Him.

[EricH]

So what you're telling me is that you simply prefer to believe the works of person's with whom you naturally agree. Frankly that's no better than Christians believing the Biblical account of Genesis because we prefer the Bible over science books.

No, I tend to believe the work of people who make sense.

As defined by you

[The Lorax]

Jukia, I don't know if you are a believer or not, but for me it is a matter of faith. I'm not sure if he really was resorting to that argument along the lines of "the Omniscient Almighty exists because the Bible says so, and the Bible is true because it was created by the Omniscient Almighty." In fact It is irrelevant, either way, because logical "proofs," circular or not, are not the reason people believe in God. I believe in God because the Holy Spirit has spoken to me. I believe in God because of Jesus. Call it faith if you want.

Thats my .02.

[kari21]

I'll buy the belief in God is a belief of faith.

Like your own leap of faith - trusting that man will one day come up with the answer as to how everything created itself from nothing?

Again, in the natural realm, Ex nihilo nihil fit is a scientific fact that has never been disproven.

[Agape_CTL]

I was listening to a lecture on quantum physics; they were discussing how the passage of time for an object is directly related to the velocity that objects are traveling. An object traveling at a slower rate of speed will experience a greater amount of the passage of time than an object moving at a greater rate of speed.

That means that if an object the same age as the earth but moving at a slower speed than the earth was to land on the earth (at which point it would be moving at the same speed as the earth) the object would seem to be older than the earth.

The only reason I bring this up is to point out that time is not absolute. I like science and I like the bible; but some people get so defensive when talking about this topic. A person's faith can not be forced through debate. While some come to faith looking for answers to questions like these, faith is not based on these answers alone.

The reason Christians stand so strongly on this issue is part of having faith is believing every word of God. Knowing that all of God's promises have or will happen. That is why I stand on this issue. I look at this topic and think maybe we the church have misinterpreted something in the bible or maybe science just hasn't found enough of the truth, but more than likely people are wrong on both sides. I trust God at his word not my understanding of every part of his word.

I know to someone that does not share this kind of faith I am admitting I believe the bible over science. I do. Not because creation sits with me better than evolution. It is because I use to hate dealing with other people, I did not trust them. I cared only for my concerns and the concerns of the people closest to me. I did not care about anyone else. I had no desire to. At that point in my life I studied evolution, really anything I could find. I am still a bookworm. (My heart is different now.) Then I started reading the bible, it changed me. I have now seen healings for others that were answers to my prayers. I have seen battles in the supernatural. But the truth is the biggest miracle was my change of heart.

I know, I studied psychology (still one of my favorite subjects). If a person changes their way of thinking, it will change their whole life. This change was not something I set out after. God set out after me, the bible tells me so. If you want to start seeing how accurate the bible is, read "Cosmic Codes" by Chuck Missler (if you are wondering about what proof the bible has to back it up.) But to truly see you just need the desire to see God in your life, not for a flashy miracle, but because he cares about you. You learn to trust God, and soon you have the kind of faith the bible talks about.

If you don

[kari21]

I'll buy the belief in God is a belief of faith.

Like your own leap of faith - trusting that man will one day come up with the answer as to how everything created itself from nothing?

Again, in the natural realm, Ex nihilo nihil fit is a scientific fact that has never been disproven.

Is that how you judge things, by whether or not they have been disproven?

Ummmm, welcome to Science 101.

Oh, and you really should look in the mirror when you say that - as you claim evolution has disproven Genesis.

[Jorge S]

See, once again a fundy using the word "evolutionist" to expand a criticism.

Astronomers, cosmologists and physicists use radiometric dating, red shift of stars and galaxies, telescopes etc to determine the ages of things.

All those things have been seriously questionned or plainly refuted in the last 30 years. I have learned the faults of evolution by reading evolutionists' works and keeping track of newer discoveries. It's a matter of being a little more perceptive and critical.

Do you really need to be reminded that evolution is a worldview, a philosophic approach to reality, a theoretical model opposed to the biblical Creation model?

How old do you think the universe appears to be?

My opinion on appearances is irrelevant. We've already been given the gift of divine revelation on the subject.