Debate on the Biblical view of Universal Salvation

[Guest shiloh357]

My opponent insists upon interpreting the Greek word exomologeo (cofess) in a manner that is atypical of its usage throughout both the Septuagint (LXX)and the Greek New Testament (GNT), for this word predominantly carries connotations of reverential repentance, praise, and thanksgiving. Thayer

[Guest shiloh357]

Thayer's Lexicon lists the following as the primary meaning of the verb, basanizos:"to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal"

As the primary meaning of noun, theion Thayer's gives this: "divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease"

Friberg's Analytical Lexicon confirms this and states that theion was "anciently regarded as divine incense to purify and prevent contagion."

E.W. Bullinger defined theion as, "fire from heaven, (places touched by lightening were called "theia," as lightening leaves a sulphurous smell, and sulphur was used in heathen purification, it got the name of "theion.")

The problem with this is that you are again relying primarily on word definitions and not usage. The fact remains that the concepts of purification and refinement are never used in connection with the wicked and ungodly. I have no doubt that there are many agents used for purification, but when used outside of that purpose can injure and/or kill a person.

Just because brimstone had in ancient times, a use in the area of purification does not mean that when it is used in any given passage in Scripture that it is being employed in that sense. Brimstone did not purify the people of people of Sodom and Gommorah.

The New City of God has its analog in the Garden of Eden, for both refer to places of purity wherein God resides, and both are places that are fortified by divine fire which prevents sinful man from entering. The only way to return to Paradise is to be purified by fire. That is to say, one must die with Christ by being baptized by the Holy Spirit and fire; The old man must be slain by the flaming swords of the Cherubim in order for the new man to be raised and be restored.

Now, in order to raised into the newness of Christ

[Guest shiloh357]

Is my opponent suggesting that he'd rather rape and murder my wife and daughter and suffer God

[EricH]

Member banned. Debate closed

[EricH]

Reopened so Shiloh can give a final response

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh357 has cited verses such as Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 as evidence that some will never be saved. I countered by noting that the word aionios (eternal) need not apply to damnation in the narrow sense that Shiloh357 is insisting upon. The damnation could be eternal, for example, in that it is of divine quality/origin. I also cited Hebrews 9:12 as evidence that the word aionios may feasibly apply to the words kolasis (punishment) and olethros (destruction) in such a way as to refer to, not the process, but rather the end result of both the punishment and destruction. This application is certainly compatible with the notion of Universal Salvation, given that the punishment/destruction are corrective in nature.

The problem here is your lack of understanding with regard to how exegesis works. You are trying redefine eternal by including a definition of aionos that does not square with how the word is used especially in verses like Heb. 9:12. As I previously indicated context determines word usage and aionos does not occur in any context where it is used to mean

[Guest shiloh357]

There is no hint of condemnation in Romans 14:10-12. Rather, as the context makes plain, Paul is emphasizing the fact that the Gentiles will be bowing to and praising God alongside Israel. For this reason, Paul argues, Jewish and Gentile Christians ought to accept each other as God accepts them both.

Moreover, I must note that giving account of ourselves to God is an essential component of salvation, for we cannot become children of light without first having our darkness exposed to the light of Truth. The fact is that when one allies the Romans text and the Philippians text with the Isaiah text, one cannot escape the salvific connotations of the text.

What is ignored by Cripps is that the passage clearly states that we are giving an account of ourselves before the judgment seat of Christ. This is not what happens at salvation. We do not have to

[Guest shiloh357]

This is false. In John

[Guest shiloh357]

My opponent had argued that the text of Revelation 20:11-15 is

[Guest shiloh357]

My opponent has offered no evidence in support of these claims.

The word for wicked (rasha) and the word for iniquity, (aven) are used synomously. Furthermore the concept is repeated in the New Testament as anomia, or