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The ten nations that the Anti-christ will rule?


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The Babylon harlot of Revelation is not some pope, nor Rome. It is about false idol worship, but not in Rome.

In Rev.11:8 is the first reference in Revelation to the "great city", and is shown without a doubt to be Jerusalem, because that's where Christ was crucified.

Then there are 8 more references to the "great city" in Rev. thereafter, all referring to the Babylon harlot.

But in Rev.21:10, which is after Christ's second coming, appears the very last reference to the "great city", which is again without a doubt Jerusalem. But with that last "great city" reference, it's about the New Jerusalem descending from God out of Heaven.

Our Lord Jesus' revealing what the Babylon harlot is at the end of Rev.17 is set in stone. It cannot be re-written.

Rev 17:18

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(KJV)

Concerning a pre-trib rapture that some say is to occur prior to those events in Jerusalem; our Lord Jesus and His Apostles already showed we are to go through the great tribulation. That's easily known by the timing Paul gave in 2 Thess.2, showing us the false one must come first, and then a great falling away of many into false worship, and then Christ's coming to reveal who the antichrist is, ending the antichrist's working. Per Paul, all that must occur BEFORE any gathering of the saints to Christ Jesus.

And again, believing Israel cannot be separated from Christ's Body. Whatever is to happens to them during the tribualtion is for all of Christ's Church too. The Church will not be gathered to Christ Jesus prior to the great tribulation.

Dave

If you would Celt, I have 3 questions -

1. How does Jerusalem rule the kings of the earth?

Re 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which
reigneth over the kings of the earth
.

2. How are all the merchants made rich through Jerusalem

3. What is the costliness John refers to in Jerusalem

Re 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein
were made rich all that had ships
in the sea by reason of
her costliness
! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Thanks

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By Blindseeker:

If you would Celt, I have 3 questions -

1. How does Jerusalem rule the kings of the earth?

Re 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

2. How are all the merchants made rich through Jerusalem

3. What is the costliness John refers to in Jerusalem

Re 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

1.

The timing of that is set for the near future, so I hope you're not thinking of that as historical. It's never happenned per history, which I think you noticed. But did you forget about the prophecy of the ten kings in Revelation, and that they rule one hour with the beast, and don't receive power until the beast king arrives to give them power? Have you considered the prophecy of Rev.12:7-9, of Satan and his angels being cast down to the earth to persecute those who keep God's Commandments and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ per Rev.12, which is different than the woman of Rev.17? Do you not recall Paul's admonition in 2 Thess.2 about a false one that must first come to set himself up as God in the Temple of God? Where has the earthly Temple of God been per history? Jerusalem. Is the fact that the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have the materials ready and plan to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem to be kept a secret on this Forum also?

2.

Dan 8:24-25

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

(KJV)

The false one coming will seal the idea of world peace and prosperity, something the New World Order hosts have been busy preparing the nations for. Just as the old ancient city of Tyre served as a great center of world commerce, Jerusalem will be the center of that working during the false beast king's reign from Jerusalem. Note verse 25 tells us how he will destroy "by peace". This is why Paul gave the indicator of how things will be on earth just prior to Christ's return, as he said, "For when they shall say, 'Peace and safety', then sudden destruction cometh upon them..." (1 Thess.5:3). The tribulation is not about WWIII, that kind of idea came from those like Hal Lindsey. It will be about a fake world peace per God's Word; chicken in every pot, as long as you bow to the false one in place of Christ. Since Rev.11 shows only two churches will stand with God's "two witnesses", there's not going to be very many who refuse to bow to the false king of the world in our near future. In Mark 13 Christ foretold His Apostles and us in the Olivet Discourse that as long as we hear of wars and rumors of war, be not troubled, for the end is not yet. What's the opposite of wars and rumors of wars? A time of "Peace and safety", which is what the majority of the world will think has come. The reason why the nations will send gifts to each after God's "two witnesses" are murdered in Jerusalem will be because with their Testimony they are going to ruin that "Peace and safety" good feeling the nations will be saying.

3.

Isa 23:1-8

1 The burden of Tyre. Howl, ye ships of Tarshish; for it is laid waste, so that there is no house, no entering in: from the land of Chittim it is revealed to them.

2 Be still, ye inhabitants of the isle; thou whom the merchants of Zidon, that pass over the sea, have replenished.

3 And by great waters the seed of Sihor, the harvest of the river, is her revenue; and she is a mart of nations.

4 Be thou ashamed, O Zidon: for the sea hath spoken, even the strength of the sea, saying, I travail not, nor bring forth children, neither do I nourish up young men, nor bring up virgins.

5 As at the report concerning Egypt, so shall they be sorely pained at the report of Tyre.

6 Pass ye over to Tarshish; howl, ye inhabitants of the isle.

7 Is this your joyous city, whose antiquity is of ancient days? her own feet shall carry her afar off to sojourn.

8 Who hath taken this counsel against Tyre, the crowning city, whose merchants are princes, whose traffickers are the honourable of the earth?(KJV)

God made a comparison in Ezekiel 28 to Satan using the prince and king of Tyre. Through Isaiah God foretold that He would bring Tyre down, that great city of world commerce then. Historically God fulfilled that through Alexander the Great. The word 'Tyre' means 'rock', and it's symbolic of the false 'rock' (Satan). Commerce and merchantilism is connected with his reign in wanting to be worshipped as God. God made the ancient commerce city of Tyre a waste, and He will do the same to the final blueprint of it that is being setup now over all nations, which Jerusalem will serve where the false one will reign from. Thus in the 1980's Jerusalem was declared 'The International City of Peace' by the globalists. Don't you wonder why the globalists constantly tell the state of Israel to back off from fighting Islam, and even give Israel's territories away to serve that peace plan? What true Israelite in the state of Israel today would agree to such concessions? Why did Israel give up part of Jerusalem right after the '67 war when they rightly conquered it, and it all belonged to them originally through God? Who are those leaders in Israel making such treaties influenced by the United Nations, especially since the U.N. serves the purpose of creating a one world government? Big goings ons are planned for Jerusalem in the last days. Watch.

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Dave

I have read your summation of Babylon, and I believe that there are to many scriptural inconsistancies for Jerusalem to fit the description of Babylon.

Question

The Anti_christ and the ten nations will destroy the harlot (Babylon). And this occurs before the Lord returns. How then can the Lord return and defend Jerusalem, if Jerusalem is destroyed?

Destruction of Babylon:

Revelation 17:16: And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17: For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18: And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The Lord returning to defend Jerusalem.

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Someone remind me why this is important? :)

:laugh:

Closed Book Test Tomorrow!

:)

I do not believe that the rapture/tribulation interpretation is valid.
I don't think anyone has unlocked the mystery either....yet millions of westernized christians think they've got God all figured out. Their faith is in a scenario where they escape any distress.

The church should be preparing people to persevere and trust God through all persecution and tribulations, but instead is directing the sheep to pack for a vacation.

:o

When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. Isaiah 43:2

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Someone remind me why this is important? :thumbsup:

It's important because our Lord and His Apostles said to remain sober and be watching.

John 3:16,

Question

The Anti_christ and the ten nations will destroy the harlot (Babylon). And this occurs before the Lord returns. How then can the Lord return and defend Jerusalem, if Jerusalem is destroyed?

The destroying the antichrist will seek to do upon the harlot is one of spiritual destroying, that's what the meaning of the "abomination of desolation" is about, false worship. Recall the vile person of Daniel is to destroy using peace! The reason Jesus warned for His to flee into the mountains when they see Jerusalem surrounded by armies is because He is returning there to cleave the Mount of Olives in two and cleanse Jerusalem from the idol worship that will be setup there (see Zech.14:4-5 again). But that event of the false one leading the kings of the earth to go up against Jerusalem is not until the end of the tribulation, for that's when Armageddon will take place at Christ's return to fight with His angels.

Destruction of Babylon:

Revelation 17:16: And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17: For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18: And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The antichrist's rule will be to spiritually destroy Jerusalem, turn it into an abomination and make it desolate using false worship. The reason why Jerusalem is referred to as a whore, is because of an abomination that will be setup there. Recall the idol image mentioned in the latter part of Rev.13. That's what "shall make her desolate and naked" is about. It has to do with the shame of a harlot. It's because Jerusalem will be spiritually married then, but to a false king in false worship, and hence the idea of spiritual harlotry away from God (recall the harlot metaphors used in the OT?). Burning her with fire points to the fire and brimstone that comes out the MOUTHS of the locust army in Rev.9. What comes out of one's mouth? Words; and in the false one's case, it's lies of deception. Deception to false worship to a false one that comes prior to Christ is what it all boils down to.

The Lord returning to defend Jerusalem.

1: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Another point of contension is if the Anti-christ is ruling from Jerusalem why would he destroy the woman from which you say he will be reigning from (Jerusalem)?

And why would the ten nations destroy the great city if the Anti-christ is ruling from there?

I think I answered that question in the previous paragraph. The matter is what type of destruction are you thinking that means, one that is literal, or one that is spiritual dealing with false worship? It's of the latter working, even as Paul pointed to in 2 Thess.2 about the "strong delusion", our Lord Jesus also in Matt.24 about the "abomination of desolation"; Rev.13 about the dragon doing great wonders, miracles, and raining fire down from the sky in the sight of men, etc. Ten nations are not involved in that, but the 'ten kings' of Rev.17 who rule one hour with the beast are.

Babylon destoyed.

Revelation 18:

21: And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22: And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23: And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24: And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Jerusalem enters the Millenium

Jerusalem in that state of false worship by the false messiah will in no way enter Christ's Milennium in such a fallen state. Jesus also pointed out to His Apostles while on the Mount of Olives overlooking the Temple building complex, that not one stone will be standing on top of another. Today, the Western Wall is still standing in Jerusalem. Do you think it will be when Christ returns there to do a cleansing? Jerusalem will not be a place for Christ's servants to be in that time, just as it was when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., as they fled to the mountains and were not harmed.

Zechariah 14:

8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9: And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10: All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

Jerusalem is not destroyed. Babylon is destroyed. Jerusalem is not Babylon

When the false one comes to rule there from Jerusalem, just like the Daniel prophecy shows, it will be in a spiritual harlot state because of the false worship that will going on there. That's what Christ is coming to destroy, and is why He foretold this...

Rev 11:13-15

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

(KJV)

Here it says "the tenth part of the city" will fall. In Zech.13 two thirds perish, while in Zech.14 half the city goes captive. Seven thousand will be slain by that same earthquake mentioned in Zechariah 14. Read Isaiah 29 about Ariel, the city where David dwelt (Jerusalem). That's also a comparison to the earthquake in Uzziah's days, and the one at Christ's second coming in Zech.14. Jerusalem will be cleansed from the abomination of desolation false worship that is to be setup there in our near future. That is the symbolic destruction of Babylon in Revelation. If it were about literal Babylon, then it would mean the city of Babylon in today's Iraq would have to become much greater than it is now.

And yet, because of the Zech.14 and Rev.11 witness about Christ's coming to Jerusalem, we know it's not pointing to Rome, nor NY, nor Brussels, nor the old city of Babylon in Iraq, etc.

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On another note; if you're thinking it's impossible for Jerusalem to be reduced to a state of destruction, and that somehow God would never allow that, then you must answer how it was He allowed the historical king of Babyon to destroy Jerusalem during Jeremiah's days, and how the Roman general Titus was given to destroy it in 70 A.D.

So if you're thinking there's not enough Biblical evidence for what I've said about Jerusalem for the last days, then you might want to study your Bible and history more. (Just a suggestion)

We are supposed to interpret God's Word using God's Word. Since The LORD already gave us a huge example of Jerusalem in a fallen state of worship being conquered by the historical king of Babylon, and... He uses the name Babylon again in Revelation events for the last days, it's illogical to go looking for a revived Roman empire to fulfill it. Those who thought Saddam and his attempt to rebuild the city of Babylon in Iraq would fulfill the Revelation prophecies were actually closer than those who like to point to Rome, NY, Brussels, etc.

Antiochus Epiphanes, being the closest fulfillment of the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel, originated from Syria (the old Seleucid dynasty); that might point to the antichrist coming from that area again, as someone suggested before.

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Someone remind me why this is important? :whistling:

What part of your faith isn't? What part of the Bible can you do without?

Pr 10:14 Wise men lay up knowledge . . .

Pr 15:14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge . . .

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My "end-times" views have not been solidified at this point. I threw myself into its study among other things several years ago before God asked me to just sit with Him because I had lost sight of Him while studying about Him, His Word, and prophesy, but I never finished my study into end-time prophesy. Since it is still my tendancy to lose sight of God over seeking knowledge, I only go so far while remaining cognizant of my fellowship with Him. I said all that to basically state why I am not yet firm in my stance on end-times before going forward with speculations and questions.

I have partial-preterist leanings and believe much of what is being discussed has already happened. What has intrigued me is Celt's assertion that Jerusalem is the woman. It does very clearly state where the Messiah was crucified. Since I am not entirely sure it is a future event, let's suppose that it has already happened. What was in control of Jerusalem at the time? Rome, which was very prosperous at the time and did control Jerusalem and did reign over the kings of the earth. Rome blasphemed and desolated the temple in 70 A.D. It's specualtive at this point, but it is worth considering.

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It's about Biblical "ensamples" with Antiochus and the Romans concerning the "abomination of desolation" in Jerusalem. The reason why the Daniel prophecy and Olivet Discourse fits the Romans also is because of what happened in 70 A.D. Jerusalem. But was all the Scritpure in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 which Jesus proclaimed fulfilled? The answer is no, for the end of this age with His second coming didn't happen, nor have the wicked on earth been subdued, etc. The Zech.14 Scripture wasn't fulfilled in 70 A.D., nor did God's "two witnesses" appear in Jerusalem then. Christ did not come then to defend Jerusalem. Since many events were left unfulfilled, that can only point to one thing. Those past historical events only served as blueprint ensamples we were to notice while watching for Christ's coming sometime in the future.

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Dave

Your ascertion that Jerusalem is Babylon would require a future fulfillment as you stated, but the description that I see in Rev 17:1 and 17:2 seem to indicate a past relationship with the kings of the earth. In verse 17:1 the woman is described as a great whore that sitteth upon many waters, this indicates two noteable points, one the fact that she is labled as a whore reveals that she is Apostate, and that she sits upon many waters indicates that she transends any single national boarder and sits over many peoples, tounges, and nations. This does not fit Jerusalm.

Btw: I never stated that the Rived Roman Empire was the Roman Catholic Church, and I don't believe that it fits bibically.

You can make an argument that the R.C. is babylon, because of the past history, and the influence over nations.

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