Left Behind - will there be a "Rapture"?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I did a search for this topic, and did find a few interesting threads about it, but from what I could find, none of them were polls which could gauge how many people believed in the Rapture or not. The basic question - Is the Bible clear on the definite Rapture occuring, or is the complete lack of early historical writings, particularly from some of the greatest minds in Christian history, evidence that there are other interpretations of these verses???

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

The Rapture is a very common belief among many Christians today. But has it always been so?

It may come as a surprise to many Christians, but the doctrine of the Rapture is not mentioned in any Christian writings, of which we have knowledge, until after the year 1830 A.D. Whether the early writers were Greek or Latin, Armenian or Coptic, Syrian or Ethiopian, English or German, orthodox or heretic, no one mentioned a syllable about it - Further reading

There exists at least one 18th century and two 19th century Pre-Tribulation references, in a book published in 1788, in the writings of a Catholic priest Emmanuel Lacunza [9] in 1812, and by John Nelson Darby himself in 1827.[10] However, both the book published in 1788 and the writings of Lacunza have opposing views regarding their interpretations, as well.

The rise in belief in the "Pre-Tribulation" rapture is sometimes attributed to a 15-year old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald (a follower of Edward Irving), who in 1830 had a vision that was later[11] published in 1861.

The popularization of the term is associated with teaching of John Nelson Darby, prominent among the Plymouth Brethren, and the rise of premillennialism and dispensationalism in English-speaking churches at the end of the 19th century - Further reading

[O'Dannyboy]

I'm sure most of our members will agree that there will be a rapture. The point of contention has always been WHEN it will occur.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I'm sure most of our members will agree that there will be a rapture. The point of contention has always been WHEN it will occur.

Going by what I have read on these boards, that has been my conclusion so far. I purposely tried to leave out the "when" to avoid conflict and simply focus on the "will". I know I'm not a very active member on these forums, but if you've read my posts, I'm one of the ones who say "no" to this question. I am what people call an "Amillenialist", and believe that the End Times spoken of in Revelation is a figurative way of describing events that are happening now - eg, we re already in the Millenium and Satan is now chained and bound because Jesus' death and resurrection have defeated the effects of sin - so though Satan can influence the world, his power is ultimately chained together. All that is left now is for the return of Jesus which will occur at an unspecified time that no one can possibly guess.

As such, i tend to side with the early church fathers in not seeing a rapture in anything written in the Bible - I was just hoping to gain some views from other people on this site on this matter, see how our views are similar or different in this matter. I guess you could say though that this is what we might call an "unimportant doctrine". Unless we actually end up in the middle of a rapture, does it really matter what our views are concerning this? Is it going to affect our salvation? Probably not. As such, I'm happy to discuss all the possiblities, and while I do ahve my opinions on this, they wont' affect the way I live as a Christian, and can easily change if historical events start to coincide with other points of view.

Thanks for the clarification Dannyboy All the best,

Edited June 18, 2008 by ParanoidAndroid

[ps127v1]

I, without a doubt, believe that there will be a rapture of the church. I'm not going into specifics about the when part, but anyone that just reads the bible will get that at some point in time we will meet Jesus in the air, the dead and the living. Can't prove to me otherwise, with the bible at least. I guess that means that no one can change my mind because that's all I go on anyway.

[OneLight]

I know I will be "caught up"!

[Christian]

John 6:39

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:43-44

Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Matthew 24:29-31

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Certainly sounds like a rapture to me

Blessings to all

His faithful servant

Christian

[MillennialSaint]

Hey, Christians have always taught a rapture. It's the 'pre trib' position that lacks historicity. Even when I was a fundamental Baptist I always believed in a post-trib rapture. And this is the view Charles Spurgeon held! I now tend to lean strongly toward the 'pre wrath' view.

I know alot of other Christians would disagree w/ me on this.

Peace & Health,

Brian

[Massorite]

I did a search for this topic, and did find a few interesting threads about it, but from what I could find, none of them were polls which could gauge how many people believed in the Rapture or not. The basic question - Is the Bible clear on the definite Rapture occurring, or is the complete lack of early historical writings, particularly from some of the greatest minds in Christian history, evidence that there are other interpretations of these verses???

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

The Rapture is a very common belief among many Christians today. But has it always been so?

It may come as a surprise to many Christians, but the doctrine of the Rapture is not mentioned in any Christian writings, of which we have knowledge, until after the year 1830 A.D. Whether the early writers were Greek or Latin, Armenian or Coptic, Syrian or Ethiopian, English or German, orthodox or heretic, no one mentioned a syllable about it - Further reading

There exists at least one 18th century and two 19th century Pre-Tribulation references, in a book published in 1788, in the writings of a Catholic priest Emmanuel Lacunza [9] in 1812, and by John Nelson Darby himself in 1827.[10] However, both the book published in 1788 and the writings of Lacunza have opposing views regarding their interpretations, as well.

The rise in belief in the "Pre-Tribulation" rapture is sometimes attributed to a 15-year old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald (a follower of Edward Irving), who in 1830 had a vision that was later[11] published in 1861.

The popularization of the term is associated with teaching of John Nelson Darby, prominent among the Plymouth Brethren, and the rise of premillennialism and dispensationalism in English-speaking churches at the end of the 19th century - Further reading

I voted yes to the poll because the so called rapture is the same thing as the resurrection. Hoever most people when they are speaking of the rapture they are speaking of the pre-tribulation concept and the pre-tribulation concept did not exist until about the 1700 or 1800's. The early church leaders believed that there will be a great tribulation before the resurrection takes place.

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

The word Grandfather does not appear in the King James version of the Bible but I believe they existed in Biblical times.

[Guest shiloh357]

It's the 'pre trib' position that lacks historicity.

I can imagine the same argument being employed against Martin Luther's teachings just 100 years after his death...