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Left Behind - will there be a "Rapture"?


ParanoidAndroid

Questions of the Rapture  

125 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the Rapture a biblical concept?

    • Yes - 1 Thessalonians is clear on the issue!
      81
    • No - the lack of historical evidence for early belief implies that this is not a biblical concept!
      27


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What makes this an important/relative issue is that without the rapture, Christians will have to endure the tribulation and perhaps Armageddon. If I was a seeker, Christians would have a hard time explaining the need to change my life and accept Christ because there is no advantage over waiting till near death to do so. I can continue to sin without fear that Christ will come to take His children to heaven unexpectedly. After all, how can a God who loves us so much that he sent His Son to die for our sins be so cruel to make His children go through the same torment and torture that the unsaved will go through. So it is important to salvation whether we believe in the rapture and when/if it will occur.

If this were true, then why does Christianity flourish during times of persecution against Christianity?

Because the Holy Spirit is in the world. Also because in the dark ages and now in third world countries there are many who can not read and depend upon missionaries for their knowledge of God in Christ. Would you, if a missionary, talk to them about the rapture and Revelation? Or would you just worry about spreading the Good News. Usually, only the educated in the world have access to the written Word and can study the prophecy's.

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What makes this an important/relative issue is that without the rapture, Christians will have to endure the tribulation and perhaps Armageddon. If I was a seeker, Christians would have a hard time explaining the need to change my life and accept Christ because there is no advantage over waiting till near death to do so. I can continue to sin without fear that Christ will come to take His children to heaven unexpectedly. After all, how can a God who loves us so much that he sent His Son to die for our sins be so cruel to make His children go through the same torment and torture that the unsaved will go through. So it is important to salvation whether we believe in the rapture and when/if it will occur.

If this were true, then why does Christianity flourish during times of persecution against Christianity?

Because the Holy Spirit is in the world. Also because in the dark ages and now in third world countries there are many who can not read and depend upon missionaries for their knowledge of God in Christ. Would you, if a missionary, talk to them about the rapture and Revelation? Or would you just worry about spreading the Good News. Usually, only the educated in the world have access to the written Word and can study the prophecy's.

First, you implement human logic to assert people would not become Christians if they knew that we will all go through the Tribulation, then you rightly apply the position that the Holy Spirit is in the world as the reason why Christianity grows during persecution. Only one position can be correct, not both.

To answer your question, if I were a missionary, it would be as a medical missionary to tend to the physical as well as spiritual needs of those who have suffered persecution as described in the Seals. If that were not the case, and I was in various parts of the world preaching the gospel, then it is the gospel that I would preach. One must first sit with the Lord and learn at His feet before attempting eschatology which has alluded Biblical scholars for close to 2,000 years.

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What makes this an important/relative issue is that without the rapture, Christians will have to endure the tribulation and perhaps Armageddon. If I was a seeker, Christians would have a hard time explaining the need to change my life and accept Christ because there is no advantage over waiting till near death to do so. I can continue to sin without fear that Christ will come to take His children to heaven unexpectedly. After all, how can a God who loves us so much that he sent His Son to die for our sins be so cruel to make His children go through the same torment and torture that the unsaved will go through. So it is important to salvation whether we believe in the rapture and when/if it will occur.

If this were true, then why does Christianity flourish during times of persecution against Christianity?

Because the Holy Spirit is in the world. Also because in the dark ages and now in third world countries there are many who can not read and depend upon missionaries for their knowledge of God in Christ. Would you, if a missionary, talk to them about the rapture and Revelation? Or would you just worry about spreading the Good News. Usually, only the educated in the world have access to the written Word and can study the prophecy's.

First, you implement human logic to assert people would not become Christians if they knew that we will all go through the Tribulation, then you rightly apply the position that the Holy Spirit is in the world as the reason why Christianity grows during persecution. Only one position can be correct, not both.

To answer your question, if I were a missionary, it would be as a medical missionary to tend to the physical as well as spiritual needs of those who have suffered persecution as described in the Seals. If that were not the case, and I was in various parts of the world preaching the gospel, then it is the gospel that I would preach. One must first sit with the Lord and learn at His feet before attempting eschatology which has alluded Biblical scholars for close to 2,000 years.

We are talking about 2 different issues. First part is regarding the relevance of the rapture upon salvation. The second part is an answer to your question about growth of the faith during persecution. I'm not easily confused; and the missionary question was a rhetorical one.

edit: by the way I'm a pre-trib Christian

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What makes this an important/relative issue is that without the rapture, Christians will have to endure the tribulation and perhaps Armageddon. If I was a seeker, Christians would have a hard time explaining the need to change my life and accept Christ because there is no advantage over waiting till near death to do so. I can continue to sin without fear that Christ will come to take His children to heaven unexpectedly. After all, how can a God who loves us so much that he sent His Son to die for our sins be so cruel to make His children go through the same torment and torture that the unsaved will go through. So it is important to salvation whether we believe in the rapture and when/if it will occur.

If this were true, then why does Christianity flourish during times of persecution against Christianity?

Because the Holy Spirit is in the world. Also because in the dark ages and now in third world countries there are many who can not read and depend upon missionaries for their knowledge of God in Christ. Would you, if a missionary, talk to them about the rapture and Revelation? Or would you just worry about spreading the Good News. Usually, only the educated in the world have access to the written Word and can study the prophecy's.

First, you implement human logic to assert people would not become Christians if they knew that we will all go through the Tribulation, then you rightly apply the position that the Holy Spirit is in the world as the reason why Christianity grows during persecution. Only one position can be correct, not both.

To answer your question, if I were a missionary, it would be as a medical missionary to tend to the physical as well as spiritual needs of those who have suffered persecution as described in the Seals. If that were not the case, and I was in various parts of the world preaching the gospel, then it is the gospel that I would preach. One must first sit with the Lord and learn at His feet before attempting eschatology which has alluded Biblical scholars for close to 2,000 years.

We are talking about 2 different issues. First part is regarding the relevance of the rapture upon salvation. The second part is an answer to your question about growth of the faith during persecution. I'm not easily confused; and the missionary question was a rhetorical one.

edit: by the way I'm a pre-trib Christian

Actually, persecution of the saints is part of the Tribulation, but after rereading your post I had initially commented on, I realize I had misread its intent and thought you were saying something different. So, in that, I apologize.

However, since I didn't rush through it this time, I picked up on something I had missed- "So it is important to salvation whether we believe in the rapture and when/if it will occur." By this, are you taking the position that those who are not pre-mil are unsaved?

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Absolutely not. I am led to believe what I believe by the Holy Spirit, while you believe the same way about you position (which I don't know). My intent with my first post today was to advance the idea that what one believes about the Rapture is important when witnessing. In the industrial nations of the world, 80% of the population is literate. Most will have heard about the end times message contained in Revelation. They are most likely to ask about the Rapture, which is where one's position on the Rapture would be relevant. As opposed to the third world, being less educated and/or illiterate, having never heard the Good News and would not know to ask about Revelation prophesy. In such a situation, talking about anything other than the Gospel of Christ would be counter productive at this stage in the conversion of the lost. Later, after being saved and having read the Good News, questions about the end times will come up. Again that is when one's position becomes relevant.

I pray that I have stated my position clearly. That's really all I have to say on this topic. Be blessed.

Rick

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Absolutely not. I am led to believe what I believe by the Holy Spirit, while you believe the same way about you position (which I don't know). My intent with my first post today was to advance the idea that what one believes about the Rapture is important when witnessing. In the industrial nations of the world, 80% of the population is literate. Most will have heard about the end times message contained in Revelation. They are most likely to ask about the Rapture, which is where one's position on the Rapture would be relevant. As opposed to the third world, being less educated and/or illiterate, having never heard the Good News and would not know to ask about Revelation prophesy. In such a situation, talking about anything other than the Gospel of Christ would be counter productive at this stage in the conversion of the lost. Later, after being saved and having read the Good News, questions about the end times will come up. Again that is when one's position becomes relevant.

I pray that I have stated my position clearly. That's really all I have to say on this topic. Be blessed.

Rick

Yes, you did. I have spoken with other pre-mils who do believe that those who do not take that position are not saved, and it seemed to be the logical conclusion to your statement I quoted. I am glad you clarified.

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Still trying to figure out where Yoda and the Wookie fit in to all of this. :th_praying:

Which post was that in? :24:

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There are alot of Scriptures concering the anti-christ, Daniel Chapter 9:26; Talks about a man who will be the decendent of the people who burned down the temple. The Roman General Titus burned down the temple in 70 A.D, therefore the anti-christ should be from Roman desent.

This man could not be any past leader, for example nero, because the Anti-christ spoken of in Daniel 9:27 will confirm a covenant with the many for one week (shābū

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Guest billieagain

I didn't vote.

I believe there will be but honestly I don't know.

What I do know is that no matter what happens, I'll be safe under the wings of the Almighty.

:)

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I did a search for this topic, and did find a few interesting threads about it, but from what I could find, none of them were polls which could gauge how many people believed in the Rapture or not. The basic question - Is the Bible clear on the definite Rapture occuring, or is the complete lack of early historical writings, particularly from some of the greatest minds in Christian history, evidence that there are other interpretations of these verses???

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

The Rapture is a very common belief among many Christians today. But has it always been so?

It may come as a surprise to many Christians, but the doctrine of the Rapture is not mentioned in any Christian writings, of which we have knowledge, until after the year 1830 A.D. Whether the early writers were Greek or Latin, Armenian or Coptic, Syrian or Ethiopian, English or German, orthodox or heretic, no one mentioned a syllable about it - Further reading

There exists at least one 18th century and two 19th century Pre-Tribulation references, in a book published in 1788, in the writings of a Catholic priest Emmanuel Lacunza [9] in 1812, and by John Nelson Darby himself in 1827.[10] However, both the book published in 1788 and the writings of Lacunza have opposing views regarding their interpretations, as well.

The rise in belief in the "Pre-Tribulation" rapture is sometimes attributed to a 15-year old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald (a follower of Edward Irving), who in 1830 had a vision that was later[11] published in 1861.

The popularization of the term is associated with teaching of John Nelson Darby, prominent among the Plymouth Brethren, and the rise of premillennialism and dispensationalism in English-speaking churches at the end of the 19th century - Further reading

The words Bible, and Trinity aren't in the scripture either, but I read one, and I believe in the Trinity, because the description is there. Same with the rapture, the word is not in the Bible but 2nd thess 4:13-17 describe the rapture. also here is a verse from the Old testament that descibes the rapture:

Isaiah 26:19-21 NASB

19 Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn , And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.

20 Come, my people, enter into your rooms And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while Until indignation runs its course.

21 For behold, the Lord is about to come out from His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; And the earth will reveal her bloodshed And will no longer cover her slain.

Isaiah 26:19-21 (NASB)

As you can plainly see here in verse 19 God is describing the raising of the Dead as in 2 thess 4:13-17. during the rapture the bride of Christ will meet Christ in the air, and stay with Him for a period of 7 years, which is what verse 20 in Isaiah 26:19-21 is refering to. verse 21 here is describing the Tribulation period.

You can't argue with the orginal Greek manuscripts, the word for caught up is Harpazo, caught up, snatched away. sorry but you have to take the Bible at what it says. Not what others say it says. I don't mean to sound brash brother but Your study sources contradict the scriptures therefore they are inaccurate.

Spiritman

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