Larry 2 Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 205 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Dear givennewname, thank you so much for your help here. I've never been one for history other than as it pertained to certain scriptures such as the difference in Antiochus Ephepiphanes, and he is that vile person that offered a sow on the altar, and the king of Syria that becomes known as Antiochus the Great. Just enough to somehow know who is being talked of as pertaining to certain verse. Those things help determine in Daniel's visions things that are of local fulfillment or pointing to prophesy of future events many times, and then there are those times I just sit and ponder them and allow future study to reveal them. I reckon that comes back to that line upon line; here a litlle and there a little. Your posting that link to the Jewish Encylopedia will be of great help to me in the future and I praise the Lord for those like you willing to lend their time to help. May God bless you in the name of Jesus - larry2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,038 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 425 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2008 Quoting Blindseeker - Secondly, Daniel 9:27 never making a covenant, rather confirming one. When you confirm something you testify the validity of what already is covenanted. Response by larry2 - Good point but again the "he" in Daniel 9:27 refers back to the "prince" whose people first destroy the city and the sanctuary, then confirms what covenant for a week? You are applying rigid English principles of communication and ignoring the fact that the scripture were written in Hebrew which follows a different structure. The first four words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,038 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 425 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2008 And then in the middle of that week he causes the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. What middle of what week? Last of all since you believe this has already happened and that it id Christ causing these thing, will you then using your history assemble all the different prophesies concerning different times and days to our present time. For instance show me where the 2300 days of Daniel 8:11-14 fit. Next where the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 are. How about the 2520 days of Daniel 9:27? The shortened days of Matthew 24:22. The 1260 day reign of the antichrist. The 1335 days of Daniel 12:12. When is that nation that is born in a day appear we read of in Isaiah 66:8. You the one who started this thread . . . answer the questions place to you first. You cannot dismiss what has been but before you with a counter-question, you must address the questions or acknowledge you do not know. Response by larry2 - I must address the questions? I'm not obligated to you in any manner except as a courtesy, nor are you obliged to answer me which it seems you have chosen to cease at this time. The purpose of this thread was "When does the seven years of tribulation start according to scripture. Please give scriptures or explanations of events with scripture to substantiate your views." If I cannot ask you questions pertaining to a statement you made, our discourse with one another is over and I will proceed without your input. I have tried to answer every question put to me. You made this statement - Alexander the Great, the he goat of Daniel 8:5, entered the region between 334 -333 B.C. which 2300 years latter would place at 1966 -1967. I responded with this - - Since you are applying these 2300 days to years and come to 1966 0r 1967, when did Daniel 8:11-13 become fulfilled at that time where we see the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot? And is this taking away of the daily sacrifice in Daniel 8:11 the start of the 2520 days? In other words is this the point of the start of the tribulation to you? One other thing, where do you see scripture showing that these 2300 days are to be counted as years such as the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24? Was this question so complicated that you refused to take your turn at serving and play defence only? I haven't asked you to decipher an ink blot or something like that. Again the idea of this thread is to state what you believe with scripture. If what you say is true it seems you would be glad to back what you say with scripture, and also relate the different day, times and events to fit into your theory. I did that with my thinking of the tribulation as clear as I could make it. Another question I asked you was - Last of all since you believe this has already happened and that it is Christ causing these things, will you then using your history assemble all the different prophesies concerning different times and days to our present time. For instance show me where the 2300 days of Daniel 8:11-14 fit. Next where the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 are. How about the 2520 days of Daniel 9:27? The shortened days of Matthew 24:22. The 1260 day reign of the antichrist. The 1335 days of Daniel 12:12. When is that nation that is born in a day appear we read of in Isaiah 66:8. Is Jesus going to be the one causing the overspreading of abominations and making it desolate in Daniel 9:27? Then turning to the book of Revelation when is that throne of Revelation 4:2 set? Who are the twenty-four elders, and the four beasts of Revelation Chapter 4? Who or what is Jesus' angel giving the Revelation of Jesus Christ to the Apostle John in Revelation 1:1? Who are the great multitude of Revelation Chapter, or the 12000 of each tribe of Israel sealed in that same chapter? Who is the star given the key to the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1 and when does it happen? In Revelation 12:1 who is the woman that gives birth to the man child, and who is the man child? In Revelation 12:10 when is the accuser of our brethren cast down? Who are the 144000 with Jesus of Revelation 14:1 and how do they get to be with Jesus if there is no tribulation in the future, and Jesus is already dead and rose again? Well if you'll answer those things with scripture, and identify them as to fitting in our present day as to their individual days, times, and events I'm anxious to see them. I believe you or someone said the sacrifice ended with Jesus' death on the cross, so all these different should be easy to trace out from that starting point which should be the midst of the week of Daniel 9:27 according to what I think you're saying. I look forward to your revealing of these things to me, and it might be easier taking one item at a time. If you cannot answer these things concerning your beliefs, you seemingly do not know them, but I'll ask no more of you, or discuss it any further and thank you again for you participation to this point in Jesus' name - larry2 Larry, I will reply when I have more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry 2 Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 205 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Larry, I will reply when I have more time. Thank you and I very much appreciate it in the name of Jesus - larry2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry 2 Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 205 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Quoting Blindseeker - Secondly, Daniel 9:27 never making a covenant, rather confirming one. When you confirm something you testify the validity of what already is covenanted. Response by larry2 - Good point but again the "he" in Daniel 9:27 refers back to the "prince" whose people first destroy the city and the sanctuary, then confirms what covenant for a week? You are applying rigid English principles of communication and ignoring the fact that the scripture were written in Hebrew which follows a different structure. The first four words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xan Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/23/1970 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Larry, from much of what you said in general, I assume you to be quite young, yet you have shown more humility than many of us (definitely myself included) who are twice or more your age. I don't know what your goals are in life, but I think you have the heart to be a good preacher or teacher if you ever decide to learn to study. You may not have much of an inclination for it now, but I hope you will in time. Good and humble teachers are in short supply. (One more thing; lighten up just a bit. A little levity is a wonderful thing. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,038 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 425 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2008 As I understand it, the tribulation will begin 3.5 years after the treaty is signed. When THAT happens we cannot say. Can anyone support this "signing of a treaty" concept with scripture? (Working on your reply Larry . . . I just ran across this will reviewing the thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,038 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 425 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2008 You the one who started this thread . . . answer the questions place to you first. You cannot dismiss what has been but before you with a counter-question, you must address the questions or acknowledge you do not know. Response by larry2 - I must address the questions? I'm not obligated to you in any manner except as a courtesy, nor are you obliged to answer me which it seems you have chosen to cease at this time. Sorry, you are right, you must not do anything. However, when I start a thread I feel a sense of obligation to respond to the questions put forth to me. Some people will just ask questions even though the answer has already been given, some will stray from the OP and want to know your motive, church affiliation or whatever that is either none of their business or unrelated to the topic at hand. Such questions I answer with it is not relevant to the OP. But questions directly related to the OP or the evolving discussion thereof when put forth to me I feel I must answer due to the fact I am the thread host. I just assumed another believer reasoning the things of God would have naturally felt the same way. Sorry, I was wrong. The purpose of this thread was "When does the seven years of tribulation start according to scripture. Please give scriptures or explanations of events with scripture to substantiate your views." I am aware of the purpose of the thread and try to encourage people to participate with scriptures in my post #5 below - I have asked this question in replies in other threads to no avail, but to know how someone interprets Revelation in its different events determines their stance on the rapture of the Church; pre, mid, or post tribulation. To make sure you understand what I am asking, when does the seven years of tribulation start according to scripture. Please give scriptures or explanations of events with scripture to substantiate your views. Just the facts folk and no arguments - We be brethren Thanks to all in Jesus' name - larry2 Since I do not subscribe to the 7 year theory I have nothing to submit . . . But I was hoping some would actually do this, "give scriptures or explanations of events with scripture to substantiate your views." At that time I was happy to just read along . . . But when you made the statement that the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,038 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 425 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2008 If I cannot ask you questions pertaining to a statement you made, our discourse with one another is over and I will proceed without your input. I have tried to answer every question put to me. Certainly you can ask me questions, but you cannot expect me to accept your answers if they lack sound scriptural support. I can consider them, but if there is plausible reason to ask for further substantiation I will. Then, instead of a reasonable, progressive discussion resolving one or two issues at a time you shotgun me with 27 different questions and then conclude your post with the statements, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,038 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 425 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2008 1. Since you are applying these 2300 days to years and come to 1966 0r 1967, when did Daniel 8:11-13 become fulfilled at that time where we see the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot? Actually, it would have been nice to hear if this may be plausible in your eyes . . . a fulfillment of prophecy regarding regaining possession of the temple mount . . . Answering your questions seems to be a labor of futility since by the harangue and scope of your questions it would appear you are well trenched in. Oh well . . . I must clarify that the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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