Age old mystery question answered

[Guest ReflectionsofHim]

Hiya Everyone! The Jesus in me loves the Jesus in you!

O.K., first before I pose my question/thought I want to say that I'm just pointing something out and offering it up for thought and opinion input but since I'm not one for getting involved in controversial issues and discussions, I do want to encourage this thread to take on a debate without hate concept! Thanks to bloodbought for that description..."debate without hate"!

This is an age old question that has been dragged through the mud forever and my beliefs about it are not important. What God's WORD says is what counts and is what is important!!! This is not meant to challenge anyone's beliefs about this subject or to make anyone believe one way or the other! It's just something that I've been studying in regards to this subject for some time and have had to give it much thought and prayer so here we go!!!

Love through our awesome, loving Jesus!

Ref

Study about salvation's permanency:

I believe in the literal translation of God's Holy Word. I believe that God says what He means, and means what He says.

In Revelation 3:5, Jesus was writing a letter to the Church of Sardis. In that letter, He said (and this is the Lord Himself speaking):

"He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.".

That age old mystery question, "can you lose your salvation?" is being answered by our Lord when He addresses the church (the Body of Christ). For the Lord is saying that He will NOT erase one's name from the Book of Life; which means and strongly indicates that He can and will and does indeed remove names from the book of life; hence one can indeed lose their salvation.

Romans 8:38-39 tells us: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Which is true, but the one thing that was not mentioned is: FREE WILL. You can choose to reject Jesus Christ, even after being saved (not a good idea). The author of Hebrews 6:4-6 tells us: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." So, once you do that, you've "crossed the line," so to speak.

Now, I don't want to scare you with this, so I'll leave you with a more positive Scripture passage:

"And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell within them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me , Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done" (Rev. 21:3-6).

Amen and Amen!!!

[godrulz]

Despite Calvinism's TULIP, the above is Scriptural and common sense. Salvation is a love relationship that must be freely entered into and maintained. It is possible to sever the relationship by a willful choice to rebel against God to the end. We have conditional eternal security. If we abide in Him, we will be saved. If we reject Him and return to our old life, we will be lost.

[stilllearnin']

Hmm interesting topic.

I was raised in a church where I was taught that I could lose my salvation.

I have struggled for years with this, because I wasn't sure how I could lose it, by that I mean, what was the sin I would have to commit to lose my salvation.

I came to believe that anytime I sinned I lost it. I answered every altar call given, just to make sure. I constantly prayed for salvation, always living in fear that I had lost it.

I still struggle with the question, 'am I really saved?' 'If I was really saved I would not do 'this and this' and I would be doing 'this and this instead.'

A pastor once explained to me that with my personality type I tended to look inside myself for answers, and I was not going to find my salvation within myself, it is not there. It is provided by Jesus and Him alone.

Hope I am not too far off the subject,

stilllearnin'

[eric]

RoH

I've lost count of the number of times this topic has surfaced on this notice board and never have I seen agreement. Taking one aspect from your post though, I will remind you that the Lord gave the same messages to all of the seven churches, in that they would all be rewarded if they were to become overcomers. So the key word, I would imagine, is overcomer. If you are an overcomer you qualify for His rewards, if not your name will be erased from the Lamb's book of life.

That's my take on it anyway,

cheers,

eric.

[angels4u]

After a person becomes saved he is a new creation and covered by the blood of Jesus, everytime God looks down on him he sees that person covered and perfect.

On the other hand ,since we are still in our flesh, our flesh will try to come out all the time again with doubts and temptation and all sort of evil in Gods eyes, when we look at ourself ,we know we are no good and all our perfection comes from Jesus. When we look at our self there is not much good about it.

But its important how God looks at us, perfect cloth in Christ,we can't live by our feelings because then we take off from Gods greatness, since we are cloth in Jesus we are also seated in heavenly places and we have a intersessor in heaven who will alway pray for us and forgive us ,everytime we confess our sins.

He is also the One who can free us from our old self.

We have to walk in the Spirit and not by sight

And God is able to finish to keep you to the end. Jesus died only ones for our sins.

Will the enemy have power over us after we become saved? Oh he will try he hardest and make you believe he wins, but he will not , he's defeated on the cross.

All the power is in Jesus Christ, Halleluyah.

Where do you stand?

Perfectly cloth in Him or by yourself?

Angels

[tsth]

After a person becomes saved he is a new creation and covered by the blood of Jesus, everytime God looks down on him he sees that person covered and perfect.

On the other hand ,since we are still in our flesh, our flesh will try to come out all the time again with doubts and temptation and all sort of evil in Gods eyes, when we look at ourself ,we know we are no good and all our perfection comes from Jesus. When we look at our self there is not much good about it.

But its important how God looks at us, perfect cloth in Christ,we can't live by our feelings because then we take off from Gods greatness, since we are cloth in Jesus we are also seated in heavenly places and we have a intersessor in heaven who will alway pray for us and forgive us ,everytime we confess our sins.

He is also the One who can free us from our old self.

We have to walk in the Spirit and not by sight

And God is able to finish to keep you to the end. Jesus died only ones for our sins.

Will the enemy have power over us after we become saved? Oh he will try he hardest and make you believe he wins, but he will not , he's defeated on the cross.

All the power is in Jesus Christ, Halleluyah.

Where do you stand?

Perfectly cloth in Him or by yourself?

Angels

Dear Angels,

What you posted is different as in it is based upon personal feelings and not Scripture. But in response, I would ask that you read the following topic:

The Holy Spirit and Conviction of Sin

In His Love,

Suzanne

[2bba]

Unbelievable. Jesus is no "Indian giver". Once you get saved, you are saved. Jesus shields you from the Fathers wrath with his own blood. I can quote many more scriptures that say you can never lose your salvation (I guess I will have to do that for a future post, hope there is not a limit to the post size - lol). That is the whole point of grace. It is a pure freedom greater than any I know.

When anyone is talking about sinners going to hell in the bible they are talking about those who have never been saved. The law shows that all of us have fallen short, but the law was for the lawless. Once you ask the Lord to forgive you for your transgressions, and that you believe that he is the Son of God, and that you give your life freely to Him you are no longer under any law. Only to love Him, and to love others as He has loved us.

If this were not so, every time you sin, and I mean every time you exceed the speed limit, give a proud look, or have a bad thought then you would lose your salvation. Surly not! Your own renewed conscious, the Holy Spirit living within you will keep you in check. You will still sin, but you will perceive it more as time goes on, and sin less. The Holy Spirit will convict us, grow us.

180 degrees different answer huh? :oww: :il:

[2bba]

Future date was sooner than I thought. He are a few passages. I believe the passages in the original message refer to people who never were really saved like Judas. Judas did many good works, but did not believe on Jesus.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Saved:

from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saos, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):--heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Joshua 1:5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

1 Chronicles 28:20 And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the LORD God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the LORD.

Nehemiah 9:31 Nevertheless for thy great mercies' sake thou didst not utterly consume them, nor forsake them; for thou art a gracious and merciful God.

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

[Adstar]

Hiya Everyone! The Jesus in me loves the Jesus in you! 

O.K., first before I pose my question/thought I want to say that I'm just pointing something out and offering it up for thought and opinion input but since I'm not one for getting involved in controversial issues and discussions, I do want to encourage this thread to take on a debate without hate concept! Thanks to bloodbought for that description..."debate without hate"! 

This is an age old question that has been dragged through the mud forever and my beliefs about it are not important. What God's WORD says is what counts and is what is important!!!    This is not meant to challenge anyone's beliefs about this subject or to make anyone believe one way or the other! It's just something that I've been studying in regards to this subject for some time and have had to give it much thought and prayer so here we go!!! 

Love through our awesome, loving Jesus!

Ref

Study about salvation's permanency:

I believe in the literal translation of God's Holy Word. I believe that God says what He means, and means what He says.

In Revelation 3:5, Jesus was writing a letter to the Church of Sardis. In that letter, He said (and this is the Lord Himself speaking):

"He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.".

That age old mystery question, "can you lose your salvation?" is being answered by our Lord when He addresses the church (the Body of Christ). For the Lord is saying that He will NOT erase one's name from the Book of Life; which means and strongly indicates that He can and will and does indeed remove names from the book of life; hence one can indeed lose their salvation.

Romans 8:38-39 tells us: "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Which is true, but the one thing that was not mentioned is: FREE WILL. You can choose to reject Jesus Christ, even after being saved (not a good idea). The author of Hebrews 6:4-6 tells us: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." So, once you do that, you've "crossed the line," so to speak.

Now, I don't want to scare you with this, so I'll leave you with a more positive Scripture passage:

"And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell within them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me , Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done" (Rev. 21:3-6).

Amen and Amen!!!

Amen Ref :il:

you can add this to your collection of scriptures Ref:

2 Peter 2

18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[4] from those who live in error. 19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

People had believed and lost their salvation even before Peter wrote this.

RefleactionsofHim. Don't get discouraged by some of the replies you get. Many of the people in here have made their minds up on this issue. You are knew here and this OSAS issue has been debated on many occasions, it seems people are hard wired one way or the other.

All praise The Ancient of Days

[Orr v'emet]

Hmm interesting topic.

I was raised in a church where I was taught that I could lose my salvation.

I have struggled for years with this, because I wasn't sure how I could lose it, by that I mean, what was the sin I would have to commit to lose my salvation.

I came to believe that anytime I sinned I lost it. I answered every altar call given, just to make sure. I constantly prayed for salvation, always living in fear that I had lost it.

I still struggle with the question, 'am I really saved?' 'If I was really saved I would not do 'this and this' and I would be doing 'this and this instead.'

A pastor once explained to me that with my personality type I tended to look inside myself for answers, and I was not going to find my salvation within myself, it is not there. It is provided by Jesus and Him alone.

Hope I am not too far off the subject,

stilllearnin'

Let me first begin by saying that I have not been convinced that you can lose your salvation or that you can't. I just live my life under the control of the Holy Spirit and allow God to be the judge of it all when the time comes. With that being said, I feel that this response is one of the problems with the whole notion that one can lose their salvation. Living a life being unsure of your salvation is not something that God intended for anyone. It keeps us from being free in our realtionship with God and with others. It holds us back and keeps us from being a bold witness. For a long time I struggled with this issue and it was horrible. I felt that I could not be an adequate witness for God, essentially that I had no authority to be a witness. After all, how could I lead another to Christ when I was doubtful of my place with Him? It held me back from experiencing the joy of my salvation. One day the Holy Spirit just confirmed to me that I was in a right relationship with God and that as long as I was trying to become more and more like Christ, then I was on the right track. I never experienced the true joy and peace of my salvation until that day.