1 John 2: What is the last hour? And antichrists-

[jeffnevins]

18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Just curious if anyone knows what the last hour is, and how antichrists signify it. I remember a mention that we won't know the day or hour of Christ's return, but the word hour might have a different meaning in the original text.

And it seems antichrists are anyone against Christ (plenty today, then). Just checking. Thanks-

[Guest vrussell]

18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Just curious if anyone knows what the last hour is, and how antichrists signify it. I remember a mention that we won't know the day or hour of Christ's return, but the word hour might have a different meaning in the original text.

And it seems antichrists are anyone against Christ (plenty today, then). Just checking. Thanks-

I agree, anyone who opposes Christ, whether doing so knowingly or blindly, is acting as an anti-christ. My oppinion of Matthew 24:4 is that these ones Jesus there refers to actually claim to revere Jesus Christ and name Jesus Christ in the hearing of others, calling Jesus thier Lord and Savior. Jesus said first, "Many will come in my name .....". They come claiming to represent the true Jesus Christ and claiming to do so in His name. We see few that actually claim to be Jesus. How many are there that claim to represent Jesus but actually mis-represent Him?

The last hour during the first century was the consumation period of years for the Jewish system of things. Today it represents the final climatic years before the end of this old sin filled world. How long have we really been seeing the Anti-Christ? Jesus said, "These people honor me with thier lips but {a summation: by thier works they deny me}." (Compare Titus 1:16 and Mark 7: 6-9) Being an anti-christ can be both by word and deed or by deeds alone.

signed: vrussellme@yahoo.com

Edited November 25, 2008 by vrussell

[Guest skypair]

18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Just curious if anyone knows what the last hour is, and how antichrists signify it. I remember a mention that we won't know the day or hour of Christ's return, but the word hour might have a different meaning in the original text.

And it seems antichrists are anyone against Christ (plenty today, then). Just checking. Thanks-

Jeff -- here's my take: Right now there is an "antiHoly Spirit" in the world. Who is it that claims to speak "inerrantly" for God? He is the antiSpirit -- the Pope.

When the rapture is past, he will appear to be antiChrist -- Christ come again. Then at midtrib, he will become antiGod "sitting in the holy place showing himself that he is God." (2Thes 2:4)

We are in the "last hour." If you can see the other things that validate this, you know we are.

skypair

[johnnybigfish]

18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Just curious if anyone knows what the last hour is, and how antichrists signify it. I remember a mention that we won't know the day or hour of Christ's return, but the word hour might have a different meaning in the original text.

And it seems antichrists are anyone against Christ (plenty today, then). Just checking. Thanks-

Jeff -- here's my take: Right now there is an "antiHoly Spirit" in the world. Who is it that claims to speak "inerrantly" for God? He is the antiSpirit -- the Pope.

When the rapture is past, he will appear to be antiChrist -- Christ come again. Then at midtrib, he will become antiGod "sitting in the holy place showing himself that he is God." (2Thes 2:4)

We are in the "last hour." If you can see the other things that validate this, you know we are.

skypair

I resent that remark Skypair. If this is the kind of teaching that you're learning from your church, or wherever, you might consider doing some praying about what you have going into your heart...Think about it.....Nobody really listens to the pope, not even most catholics...For instance...The popes speaks out against abortion....But, do you think that all Catholics are "Pro-Life"?...shoot no.....

Do you really suppose the "Holy Place" is in the Vatican?...I kind of doubt it, but I always thought it was the "Temple" in Jerusalem.

I'm a Catholic...I was "Born Again" in an Assembly of God church...I was married by a Church of Christ minister...Do you suppose I'm going to hell too, because I was baptised as a baby?

I used to "Dwell" on the rapture....didnt want to make plans for the future because I knew, at any moment I was going to be raptured..Now, if it happens, it happens...I personally, dont believe it anymore..I mean, like 2 people in a field, one will be taken, the other left...2 people in bed...One will be taken, the other left...These acts can be done by the police, or kidnappers, or Nazis( like when they rounded up Jews). I'm very sorry if I seem harsh, but these types of words are what break apart members of the church..I'm not talking about my church, or your church..I'm talking about US, Christians as a whole. Dont worry about who the antichrist is gonna be, because as the bible tells us, Many believers will be tricked into turning to the antichrist when he takes his place to rule...The ones who arent tricked will look like idiots to the ones who are fooled. At any rate, I forgive what you've said here, even though you feel you are right...Theres tons of people out there who feel the same way as you. Even I have to be careful to not hurt the feelings of other Christians sometimes with some of the stuff that pops out of my mouth...So remember, there are some Christian Catholics in these forums.

your friend,

john

[Rick-Parker]

Dont worry about who the antichrist is gonna be, because as the bible tells us, Many believers will be tricked into turning to the antichrist when he takes his place to rule...The ones who arent tricked will look like idiots to the ones who are fooled.

Matthew 24:24 "For there will arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." It is not a given that the elect will be deceived by the anti-Christ. Christ made a point of saying if it is possible for us to be deceived.

[Guest]

Dont worry about who the antichrist is gonna be....

Matthew 24:24 "For there will arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." It is not a given that the elect will be deceived by the anti-Christ. Christ made a point of saying if it is possible for us to be deceived.

Not A One

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one. John 10:27-30

Who Trust In Him

In The Shadow Of His Wings

Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea,

in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge,

until these calamities be overpast. Psalms 57:1

It Is Jesus Who Keeps Us

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

And It Is Jesus Who Saves Us

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.

Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

And It Is God Our Father Who So Loved Us

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And It Is The Mighty Holy Ghost Who Seals Us

That we should be to the praise of his glory,

who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,

the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Ephesians 1:12-13

Who Trust In Him

Thank You Abba

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

Bless You LORD Jesus

Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalms 103:1

Pour Out Your Holy Spirit Upon Me

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence;

and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation;

and uphold me with thy free spirit. Psalms 51:10-12

Glory! Glory! Glory! To THE KING OF KINGS!

[Guest skypair]

I resent that remark Skypair. If this is the kind of teaching that you're learning from your church, ... I'm very sorry if I seem harsh, but these types of words are what break apart members of the church..

John,

I am sorry if I seem harsh as well. And as to "resentment," we often resent what we do not understand. You are a saved Christian, but you may be in a bad place. The RCC gospel is not the same as the CoC gospel and that alone ought to give you pause.

Actually, the connection of AC is well-founded. Rev 2:22 speaks of a harlot as does Rev 17:18 which places her in Rome. Rev 17:1 shows her sitting upon "many waters" (Gentiles) and 17:3 says she rides the "scarlet beast" signifying the "son" of the "red dragon" (Satan) in Rev 12:3.

We know from Daniel that he is a "small horn" (rules a small kingdom - Vatican City) and "diverse horn" (theocracy).

But here's the major point I would come to: Satan doesn't know when Christ will return again either. He has to have an "antiChrist" available to step in the moment the rapture occurs -- and he has had one all along in the papacy. And he claims as adherents 1/6th of the population of the earth right now! That is the number of people who, regardless of how loosely affiliated, could be "activated" by his leading.

And then there is the phenomenon in which you are taking a part -- the "falling away" of ecumenicism. I am appalled at how even my own SBC is "emerging," abandoning its Baptist name and doctrine in order to reach people with a more amorphus message of salvation in Christ with "no strings attached." You see, it's true in the Baptist church as well as in the RCC --- Christ was the "propitiation" for our sins, for EVERYONE'S sins. But both churches are reaching a point where they abandon the requisite message that He only ATONES -- reconciles with God and actually saves -- those who BELIEVE on Him repenting and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, Acts 2:38. Both churches are going into "hyperactive" mode to "sell" their religion and neither is too picky about how they build their "Laodicea," Rev 3:14-22.

But let's keep the convo going. I have no sure idea of what your views are except that you, like my Baptist churches teaching, have given up on the pretrib rapture and gone to cutting Israel out of the picture and waiting for the 2nd coming to earth despite what Peter says about "scoffers in the last days in 2Pet 3:3.

skypair

[larryt]

18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Just curious if anyone knows what the last hour is, and how antichrists signify it. I remember a mention that we won't know the day or hour of Christ's return, but the word hour might have a different meaning in the original text.

And it seems antichrists are anyone against Christ (plenty today, then). Just checking. Thanks-

In NT greek the word translated "anti" does not necessarily mean "against" as in English today. The word means in addition to "against" ----

1) over against, opposite to, before

2) for, instead of, in place of (something)

2a) instead of

2b) for

2c) for that, because

2d) wherefore, for this cause

The Greeks use of it was more often used in the sense of "instead of" or "in place of"

Latin for the same word is "vicar", and the whole idea of having an earthly representative to mediate for us to God is what is the main meaning of the word "antichrist".

The Antichrist will claim to be the sole mediator to God in opposition to Jesus Christ.

LT

LT

[larryt]

I resent that remark Skypair. If this is the kind of teaching that you're learning from your church, ... I'm very sorry if I seem harsh, but these types of words are what break apart members of the church..

John,

I am sorry if I seem harsh as well. And as to "resentment," we often resent what we do not understand. You are a saved Christian, but you may be in a bad place. The RCC gospel is not the same as the CoC gospel and that alone ought to give you pause.

Actually, the connection of AC is well-founded. Rev 2:22 speaks of a harlot as does Rev 17:18 which places her in Rome. Rev 17:1 shows her sitting upon "many waters" (Gentiles) and 17:3 says she rides the "scarlet beast" signifying the "son" of the "red dragon" (Satan) in Rev 12:3.

We know from Daniel that he is a "small horn" (rules a small kingdom - Vatican City) and "diverse horn" (theocracy).

But here's the major point I would come to: Satan doesn't know when Christ will return again either. He has to have an "antiChrist" available to step in the moment the rapture occurs -- and he has had one all along in the papacy. And he claims as adherents 1/6th of the population of the earth right now! That is the number of people who, regardless of how loosely affiliated, could be "activated" by his leading.

And then there is the phenomenon in which you are taking a part -- the "falling away" of ecumenicism. I am appalled at how even my own SBC is "emerging," abandoning its Baptist name and doctrine in order to reach people with a more amorphus message of salvation in Christ with "no strings attached." You see, it's true in the Baptist church as well as in the RCC --- Christ was the "propitiation" for our sins, for EVERYONE'S sins. But both churches are reaching a point where they abandon the requisite message that He only ATONES -- reconciles with God and actually saves -- those who BELIEVE on Him repenting and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, Acts 2:38. Both churches are going into "hyperactive" mode to "sell" their religion and neither is too picky about how they build their "Laodicea," Rev 3:14-22.

But let's keep the convo going. I have no sure idea of what your views are except that you, like my Baptist churches teaching, have given up on the pretrib rapture and gone to cutting Israel out of the picture and waiting for the 2nd coming to earth despite what Peter says about "scoffers in the last days in 2Pet 3:3.

skypair

Hi skypair,

May I suggest that you find some of the discussions on the pre-trib rapture and understand that there are many here that do not hold to that doctrine. This is not the place for that discussion so I will not address it here.

By the way welcome to WB.

LT

[jeffnevins]

Thanks for the replies. I was most curious about the phrase "the last hour", which was written 1900 years ago.

I read a couple of short end times books during my days off, and realize that the phrase "hour" can in fact be that long (or longer). It confused me a bit, because an hour doesn't seem that long to me. 1900 years to us is but an hour God might be the gist.