Did Jesus die for everyone?

[dcampsart]

I really don't see a distinction between Esau and the Edomites when reading the original Hebrew and Greek meaning of the words "hate" and "hated" as used in verses in Mal 1:2-3 or Romans 9:13. When I read the Hebrew translation for "hated" (H8130) Esau, I find some of the biblical usage defined as TO HATE OR HATEFUL TOWARD PERSONS OR NATIONS pretty much sums it up for me God's disposition for Esau and his descendants - especially when I read the words at the end of Mal 1:3 and laid waste his mountains and his heritage for the jackals of the wilderness.

Edited January 17, 2009 by dcampsart

[dcampsart]

I really don't see a distinction between Esau and the Edomites when reading the original Hebrew and Greek meaning of the words "hate" and "hated" as used in verses in Mal 1:2-3 or Romans 9:13. When I read the Hebrew translation for "hated" (H8130) Esau, I find some of the biblical usage defined as TO HATE OR HATEFUL TOWARD PERSONS OR NATIONS pretty much sums it up for me God's disposition for Esau and his descendants - especially when I read the words at the end of Mal 1:3 and laid waste his mountains and his heritage for the jackals of the wilderness.

[dcampsart]

I really don't see a distinction between Esau and the Edomites when reading the original Hebrew and Greek meaning of the words "hate" and "hated" as used in verses in Mal 1:2-3 or Romans 9:13. When I read the Hebrew translation for "hated" (H8130) Esau, I find some of the biblical usage defined as TO HATE OR HATEFUL TOWARD PERSONS OR NATIONS pretty much sums it up for me God's disposition for Esau and his descendants - especially when I read the words at the end of Mal 1:3 and laid waste his mountains and his heritage for the jackals of the wilderness.

[Isaiah-smiles]

Esau was subjected to Jacob/Israel through their seed, as mentioned by larryt.And also in the near future when during the millennium kingdom the WHOLE world will be subject to Israel because of the same covenant.

The way I see the sovereignty of God vs. the free will of man is this; when Adam partook of the fruit they became aware of good and evil. In other words, they knew good and evil. When it comes down to the free will of man, both, believer and non-believer knows good from evil, no matter of what state they are in. Non-believers have the same choices to make in their lives as believers-to do good or evil. Thereby good and evil becomes their "works or deeds". These works or deeds have nothing to do with being saved, but rather, it is the measuring rod that God uses to determine rewards (for the believer) or degree of punishment (for the non-believer) via "The Judgment Seat of Christ" or "The Great White Throne Judgment".

Now as to God's sovereignty, God chooses. The way I understand it, God does choose through his undeserved Grace and Mercy He chooses the person in who's life He will be actively involved with in a personal way. God convicts the world of it's sin via The Holy Spirit, but the Father is the one who woos the person He has chosen to Calvary. He does not woo or draw everyone to His Son. That is why scripture says that "For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matt. 22:14) This is why we should still witness to others. As we are commissioned to do, is to make the call to the world while The Holy Spirit does the convicting, but ultimately, it is God who does the choosing. That is why when we witness to others about Christ and what He has done on our behalf, most of the time He is rejected but there are a few who responds favorably to the Gospel on the account that they are the Elect according to God's will. We our selves has no idea of who the elect are so that is why we should witness often. And no matter where on God's green earth the elect are found, God will make sure that they hear the call. Remember, whether you are believer or non-believer all are responsible for the choices they make in their lives whether it is good or evil. Let me give an example; when a person lies to someone else, is the liar aware that they are telling a lie? Of course they are aware and they know it is evil. But by their own will they chose to tell a lie. My next question is; does only non-believers lie? Of course not! believers have the same potential to lie as well, thereby they make that choice too and are responsible for it and will suffer loss of reward in the end for it, but they will be saved as though by fire.

[larryt]

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.

And let him that heareth say, Come.

And let him that is athirst come.

And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17

Of sin, because they believe not on me; John 16:9

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.

We are to preach the Gospel to all Creation.

And let him that heareth say, Come.

Those that do hear will come. Those that have ears to hear will come. Those that do not won't.

And let him that is athirst come.

What if someone is not thirsty? I don't think they will come.

And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The call is to whosoever will. The whosoever won't - won't.

Thank you Joe.

LT

[BlindSeeker]

I really don't see a distinction between Esau and the Edomites when reading the original Hebrew and Greek meaning of the words "hate" and "hated" as used in verses in Mal 1:2-3 or Romans 9:13. When I read the Hebrew translation for "hated" (H8130) Esau, I find some of the biblical usage defined as TO HATE OR HATEFUL TOWARD PERSONS OR NATIONS pretty much sums it up for me God's disposition for Esau and his descendants - especially when I read the words at the end of Mal 1:3 and laid waste his mountains and his heritage for the jackals of the wilderness.

[kross]

I really don't see a distinction between Esau and the Edomites when reading the original Hebrew and Greek meaning of the words "hate" and "hated" as used in verses in Mal 1:2-3 or Romans 9:13. When I read the Hebrew translation for "hated" (H8130) Esau, I find some of the biblical usage defined as TO HATE OR HATEFUL TOWARD PERSONS OR NATIONS pretty much sums it up for me God's disposition for Esau and his descendants - especially when I read the words at the end of Mal 1:3 and laid waste his mountains and his heritage for the jackals of the wilderness.

[BlindSeeker]

Just a question. Where do you see Esau repenting?

Where do you see him not?

[kross]

Just a question. Where do you see Esau repenting?

Where do you see him not?

Previous scripture posted and no indication that he missed his birth right and the relationship with GOD that came with it.

[larryt]

Just a question. Where do you see Esau repenting?

Where do you see him not?

The NT calls him a profane person and God says He hates him.

Heb 12:16 Lest there [be] any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

Ro 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

LT