BlessedHope

Here is an excellent article on the pre-tribulation Rapture: How Soon The Rapture? How Soon the Rapture? Signs of the times By Pete Rose -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jesus' disciples on the Mount of Olives when He told them of the coming destruction of the temple shortly before His passion and crucifixion, asked Him,

so it took the Holy Spirit 3 tries to get it mostly right? I didnt say there was a multitude of mistakes today, but even one mistake would make the Holy Spirit wrong and that I am not willing to agree with, so I have to assume the translators of the KJV were not inspired like the original authors. The TRANSLATORS of the King James Bible were led and guided by the Holy Spirit to translate the Scriptures from the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts....not to re-write the Scriptures. They were not infallible men...but they were brilliant Greek and Hebrew scholars. Typographical errors did occur, but that wasn't because the Holy Spirit made mistakes. The translators of the King James Bible were not INSPIRED as were the original "holy men" who penned the Scriptures: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:20-21) they (the translators) were led and guided by the Holy Spirit to TRANSLATE...not to re-write the Scriptures.

That's the point I make---as we are all called to preach the Gospel to every creature, we had better make sure it is plainly understood. The Holy Spirit isn't helped along when we offer archaic language to the unbeliever. We must offer the Gospel in our own language--verbally and written, so that others will be drawn to Christ. For those who are KJV purists, I rather think they are worshiping the written word rather than the author, and I would ask them how anyone who doesn't even speak English can possibly know Jesus in the first place, seeing as old King James never translated the Scriptures in Latvian or Spanish or Swahili. When I got saved, I knew absolutely nothing about the Bible version issue. The lady who led me to the Lord did use the KJV, but others gave me copies of the Living Bible (by Kenneth Taylor) and the NASB and the NKJV. My first Bible I purchased on my own was a KJV Open Bible (1976 edition) ...and I still have it! The Living Bible is not a translation, it is a paraphrase. I also took a look at the NIV...and I just didn't like it...and I still don't like it...but not for the same reasons I had 25 years ago. In 1999, I started going to a church which used the KJV exclusively (they weren't "radicals") and I really started growing spiritually at that point. I still had my NASB and NKJV and would argue with the KJV people on the net about what was so great about the KJV. They were honest with me and pretty much told me to do a study of Bible versions (which I did for almost a year). To make a long story short, I now use the KJV exclusively. My husband and I go to an IFB/KJV church (which are rare around here). I wouldn't call myself a KJV "purist"...really never heard the term until the "Ruckmanite" radicals came along. I do not worship the written Word of God, I worship the Author of that Word because His Word says that "He alone is Worthy": Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. (Revelation 4:11) As far as some of the words being archaic, yes there is some archaic language in the KJV, but there are lots of "helps" available...for instance, I have a couple of copies of KJV dictionaries and also a copy of the "Defined KJB" published by Bible for Today... that particular Bible is not red letter and does not have a concordance...but the "helps" in that Bible are really good. I believe the KJV is the most accurate translation in the English language because it was translated from superior Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. The old King James was never translated into Latvian or Spanish or Swahiili because Bibles are translated from the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, not the KJV English. The KJV is the ENGLISH translation from the Masoretic Text (Hebrew Old Testament) and the Textus Receptus/Received Text (Greek New Testament). BTW, "easy to read" isn't always the "most accurate".

On which day did the Lord Jesus Christ rise from the dead? In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (Matthew 28:1) Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Mark 16:9) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. (Luke 24:1-3) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. (John 20:1-2) The first day of the week is Sunday. Christians worship on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of their Savior. Christ was in the tomb during the sabbath, and rose as the firstborn from the dead on the first day. (Matthew 28:1) The sabbath signifies the last day of the old creation (Genesis 2:2). Sunday is the first day of the new creation. Sabbath means "rest"...Our "rest" is in the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, when we are "in Christ", we have "entered into His rest": Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. (Hebrews 4:1-4) The Lord Jesus Christ is my rest/Sabbath.

You may not have entertained the idea of being 'back under the yoke', but it does happen in the majority of Messiainc congregations here in the USA. We also have alot of flaky Messianic congregations here where the Gentiles are in the majority and that majority do practice trying to be Jewish...and I agree with you, it is all a bit sickly. I call thes folks "Jewish wannabes" They "wannabe" Jewish! In the congregation I was in, Jewishness and Torah was the focus. The "Jewishness" of Jesus was more important than Him as Saviour. I have a question for you...why do you leave out the "o" in Lord and God? I can't find anywhere in the Bible where the Israelites did this. I have heard that this "tradition" comes from the Talmud. Christ is not a surname. This is the Greek word for the Hebrew `Messiah,' meaning `anointed.' This title occurs about 50 times in the gospels as compared to about 300 times in the Epistles. `Christ' is an official designation, or title, and is usually written with the article prefixed as `the Christ.' And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. (Matthew 16:16) When various "groups"/denominations (i.e. Roman Catholicism) want to prove their "roots", they only go back to the early Church fathers...I say we need to go back to the apostles. Many of the early Church fathers were heretics, as well as being anti-semetic. The Jewish people need salvation...and salvation is only in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross of Calvary. There is no other way. The Church needs to be more involved in Jewish evangelism...I'm a firm believer that the Gospel needs to be preached "to the Jew first and also to the Greek" (Romans 1:16).

Hi BlessedHope....I find it interesting that you make the distinction in the way you have described, whereas friends that I know who have been ethnically Jewish, and then been 'born again' have been at pains to retain their Jewish identity and would say that they are now in Messiah, and therefore a Messianic Jew, in other words a Jewish Believer in the Jewish Messiah. I am a Gentile that believes in the Jewish Messiah, I prefer to call myself a Messianic Gentile...more of a way of deliberate departure from some of the associations of gentile Christianity, and to re-emphasize that my faith has it's roots in Jewish history. Friends call me a Christian, and so I am, I have no problem with that, but because of the the gentilisation of the Body of Messiah in such a negative way over the years, I am at pains to remove myself, when possible/expedient, from traditional inconsistancies that continue to replicate age old mistakes and inadvertent prejudices, which ultimately promote the Gentile version of Jesus, to the exclusion of the original. I make the distinction for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I was going to a Messianic Torah Observant congregation for 10 years after I got saved. Most of the congregation was Gentile (85%)...no problem there, however Gentiles should not be put back under the "yoke of the Law" (Acts 15:1-10). It was this error which the apostle Paul addressed in his epistle to the Galatians. Mixing law/works and grace. Secondly, the focus was on "Jewishness" "Torah", etc. not on Jesus Christ. The Gospel of grace was not preached and if I had not been going to (what you call a "gentiliized" Church/Christianity)a church on Sundays, I would have fallen on my face spiritually...and I almost did anyway. If we are to "get back to our roots"...let's go back all the way to the apostles...not just back to the early church fathers. Our focus must be on Jesus Christ, not on our "roots". Yes, it's good to understand our "roots", but "roots" is not our focus, Jesus Christ is. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2) That's why I prefer to call myself a Christian. It's not my ethinicity to which I identify...it's Christ, and only Christ. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Galatians 2:20) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (Ephesians 2:15)

I was raised Reform Jewish (Rabbinical Judaism). And for me personally, I knew there had to be a God somewhere "out there"...I was scared of death....probably because I knew deep down that I would end up in hell because I wasn't "good enough" to make it to heaven. My older brother was definitely an agnostic when we were growing up. Being "Jewish" has nothing to do with the religion of Judaism. I learned that being "Jewish" was being born of a Jewish mother and being a "physical" descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I know Jewish people who proclaim to be Buddhists...some Jews even "convert" to Roman Catholicism, etc. Our family were not practicing Jews (we were "LIBERAL") So one can be an atheist and still be of the Jewish race (physically). I was born again in 1974...I'm still Jewish ethnically...but my identity now is "in Christ". Therefore, I am a Christian.

I agree shiloh! I was raised in the Jewish faith (Reform Rabbinic Judaism)...I was born again in 1974 and I now am a member of the Body of Christ...I call myself a Christian. Lost Jews are the same as lost Gentiles...all must come through Christ for salvation...there is no difference. The ground is level at the foot of the cross.