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  2. What must you do to Stay Saved..... ?????

    I am asking this for other people's benefit, who may not have taken the time to break down your theology and think critically about what you claim regarding salvation, free will and the fact that salvation is pre-determined and your claim that God has already decided that some people WILL go to Hell even if they trusted in Jesus for salvation. It is confusing for you to talk about "willfully sinning" as if we choose to sin, and then in other places claim that we have no choice, that everything is scripted out and free will doesn't exist. You have a very duplicitous approach to the subject because you are trying to hold on to Arminian theology and Predestination and trying to reconcile two polar opposite things. It makes no sense to say, "you can choose to willfully sin," and at the same time claim, "you have no free will to choose to sin." Those two statements are irreconcilable.
  3. Steven howie

    Welcome to Worthy!
  4. New User

    Welcome and prayed
  5. As long as you have the Son you have life. If you cease to have the Son, you cease to have life.
  6. Tongues

    The "Cannon" was made by men, not God. Besides, we don't need the written word of God for it is written on our hearts, in the stars, and in creation. Additionally, those in possession of the word of God still need the Author, the Holy Spirit, to sort it out.
  7. I have been asked to refute what you said. This one is easy. Why did he say he didn't know them? Verse 23, they work iniquity.
  8. The person I was responding to just jumped in with a random scripture, so for his benefit, I wanted him to look at what I had posted earlier. Then if he wishes to refute it he can. Just making it easier to continue a discussion we have already been having. There is also a lot of interesting arguments for eternal security in the first two pages. I would also recommend he go back and read that, along with my questions to George about what he said and his replies. There is a lot that was already covered.
  9. What must you do to Stay Saved..... ?????

    That has been thoroughly discussed in the Soap Box, even down to the how. With all those pages, I suggest people go back and read through it. In the meantime, I will wait to see what Behold has to say.
  10. No we are, or at least I am, refuting what you claim Scripture says, using the Scriptures YOU provide. We are not pitting the Bible against itself, as if one part of the Bible is wrong and the other part is right.
  11. What must you do to Stay Saved..... ?????

    How can someone "willfully sin" if there is no free will available for someone to willfully sin? How is it "willful" if I have no choice to act on due to having no free will?
  12. That is what everyone is doing. They go straight to the verses that they think support their arguments. That happens a lot when someone comes into a thread in the middle and doesn't know what already took place. They just see the topic and post something we have already talked about. I get tired of having to re-type everything.
  13. Amen. It is sad that there are those who actually want to deny that we can have any assurance in this life of salvation.
  14. It is interesting how you are always trying to pit Scripture against itself. Using the Bible to refute the Bible is not an appropriate use of Scripture.
  15. In some cases they do bear fruit, but what they do is draw needed energy and strength from the actual branches. Suckers are like parasites that attach themselves to plants, and are found in vineyards. I used to have to cut them of my grandparents grapevine. It was a near daily chore. You get better fruit when they are removed. They are a detriment to the welfare of the vine. I am not speculating at all. I actually understand the metaphor and how it would be understood.
  16. So I don't have to start all over, I re-posted some of my arguments from earlier in this thread for you. God bless.
  17. But to someone who understands the process that is what would come to mind. And in an agrarian culture, such things would be understood. "Sucker branch" is our modern vernacular. But that is the branch that would come to mind to a vine dresser. And suckers don't bear fruit. They hinder fruit. That's why the are removed. But it is not dead branches that Jesus has in mind. It is living branches that do not bear fruit. We are talking about a vine, not a fruit tree. We need to stick with the metaphor given and not mix metaphors.
  18. I just looked up the term "sucker branch." It is an inferior branch that grows on a tree that will often bear inferior fruit or a different kind of fruit altogether in some cases. Shiloh, it is pure speculation on your part that Jesus was speaking of sucker branches in that parable. While it is not impossible, it is not necessarily true either. It is just a way to defend your position, but the bottom line is, sucker branch or other branch, they are part of the tree and if they bear no fruit, they are cut off and cast into the fire. That is another thing about a sucker branch. They often times do bear fruit, though often inferior.
  19. 1 John 5:10-13 ¶ He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. I see here that we may have eternal life and know that we have it in this life.
  20. In the parable, Jesus never mentions anything about a "sucker branch." He never uses that term at all. That is something that is no place in the text. It is something you have introduced, or penciled in to the text. He uses the example of branches that do not bear fruit. I have seen plenty of trees that had branches that bore fruit for a time and later those branches died. If we are going to use examples of actual fruit trees, it is not uncommon for a branch on a tree to die while others continue to live. They will continue to bear fruit, but the dead branches will not. They will either eventually fall away on their own, or they will have to be cut off the tree and burned for fire wood.
  21. Briefing

    I apologize about lately getting real angry and lashing out. It just really angered me cus some of you had no idea of what I was even talking about and TOTALLY misinterpreted what i was trying to explain and present and rebuked me. Anyways my tormenting thoughts are better. But i still have the "what if i go to hell and suffer extreme punishment". All i know is i gotta continue to persevere and pray and seek God, but do any of you have a mature word of wisdom?
  22. What must you do to Stay Saved..... ?????

    Lets have a discussion, shall we Behold. Most everyone I have come across so far here at WCF, that holds to unconditional eternal security are saying we all sin. They claim that all of us sin, can't help it, and one sin is as bad as another. Just go to any of the eternal security threads right now and see for yourself. What is sin? It is the transgression of the law. You are not preaching the same eternal security message they are. You are preaching we are not under the law, so therefore we cannot sin, because we are not under any law. Am I getting that straight? I do not wish to misrepresent you in any way. Lets look at your Mother, your Preacher, and your Seminary. I guess based on what you are now saying, you consider them all heretics. Am I correct in saying that? I do not wish to misrepresent you. As a matter of fact, if I am understanding you correctly, you are labeling anyone that doesn't believe as you do on unconditional eternal security a heretic. Is that true? I do not wish to misrepresent you. I guess my biggest question is how come you came to the place where you decided you Mother, preacher and the seminary you went to were all heretics? What led to your change in doctrine? Another question. It is obvious a lot of people do not agree with you, like your Mother, your Preacher and your Seminary. How can you be so sure they are the heretics? What are you basing that on? Do you think they are stupid? You claim they are brainwashed by reading certain parts of Hebrews over and over again. True story. I know of an eternal security Baptist that told me he was brainwashed (though he didn't call it that) into believing OSAS by reading certain passages they gave him over and over and over again. With roughly half of the protestant church world disagreeing with you, how come you are so sure of yourself?
  23. Matthew 7:21-29 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. When Jesus tells this group of prophets, exorcists, and workers in Jesus' name to depart from him, he says that he never knew them. Never.
  24. A question about Jude 1:9

    I think if we do a bit of deductive reasoning we will note that Jesus had not come on the scene yet and in the Old Testament (when Michael would have been contested by the devil) God was referred to as The Lord. Something to keep in mind though is that God is made up of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit and is not some 4th entity. The Son, whom we see in the physical as Jesus in the New testament, had not yet been fully revealed in the Old Testament although we do see him manifesting in different ways.
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