O'Dannyboy

I doubt very much that the Palestinians would give it back, even if they could, which they cant. Rest assured that part if not all of the money will be used to fund terrorism against Israel.

I think the Papacy and its canon law have left most Europeans somewhat disillusioned. The RCC has earned itself a reputation that can't be easily dismissed. No offense.

Another effort on Russias part to garner favor with Iran. Its beginning to look like Russia is playing both ends against the middle. They play along with the International community on paper but their actions speak volumes about whose side they are really on.

I have to question the need for "gay pride parades" in the first place. To me this is plainly more evidence that they are promoting their lifestyle and not just proud. Seeing this happening in nations around the world only supports the premise that Satan is behind it.

Ezek 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. Ezekiel 38 and 39 outline how that day will go. Still there are other scriptures that refer to this event. http://www.raptureready.com/glossary/ezk38and39.html

Getting warmer but I don't think thats the ones.

I am not certain but I think it's in Ezekiel.

U.S. lawmakers formally asked the Bush administration Thursday to reconsider its approval of a sale giving a company in the United Arab Emirates control over significant operations at six major American ports. http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/16/con...s.ap/index.html

It may very well be. Scripture tells us that they will be set upon from ALL sides. So we can understand that at least the west bank will not be in Israeli hands when they are attacked. Technically they ARE being attacked from all sides since they have enemies on all sides contributing to violence against them.

It would only make sense that the world powers insist that enrichment activities do not, for any reason, take place in Iran or any place where IAEA inspectors do not have full access. We cannot be sure how far we can trust Russia but it appears as though they are playing along with the U.N. Iran will most certainly remain as obstinant as they have been from the beginning.

Perhaps I could use a "thicker skin" especially if a want to participate in a Christian forum. Right? Is that how we are supposed to treat people? Perhaps I am suffering from some mild depression, but the tone in which some things were said did hurt my feelings. I guess I do think I have pretty good morals in spite of what some of you may think. I think you are right, that I originally placed the needs of the victims above that of the fetus. You are right that the womans torment is nothing compared to unjustly having your life taken. Perhaps I am becomming desensitized to death on a whole. Even where my own life is concerned I do not fear death as much as pain and suffering. I mean, really, how many of you wouldn't give your own life to prevent someone else from suffering unbearable pain? I may have been overly sensative about how I have been treated throughout this discussion and responded in like fassion. Thank you for sharing your views on this touchy subject and know that I have learned something about myself that I will have to pray for help with.

I was hopeful that I would be enlightened by this discussion rather than molested verbally. I lament that at the beginning my views on this topic did not agree with your sensibilities. My views have changed despite the attacks on my character and intelligence. I hope you all have a nice day and can manage to make it through the day without someone doing the same to you. Peace.

I consider it an attack when you belittle and demonise my opinion. I would also like to add that as we are having this discussion you are having an influence on my "mindest" and would apreciate not having my earliest posts thrown in my face as if I had just said them all over again. I do not wish that any life should ever be terminated prematurely or to fill someone elses selfish needs or desires. I cannot help how much I feel for victims of rape. It just seems unfair that a woman, or worse, a teenager, should have to endure childbirth after the torment and pain of being raped and possibly beaten. I do also understand how unjust it would be to end the life of the fetus. I am in agreement with all of you that not one life should be cut short without fully contemplating every alternative and the consequences of each choice.

Please share a few of those scriptures Shiloh. "go into the land of Israel" and "came into the land of Israel" could both easily mean to the land belonging to Israel, and not neccesarily the land called Israel. "not in Israel" could very well have meant not among the nation of Israel. Going back to the original texts might very well prove to complicate the issue because of the broad meanings of the original Latin and Hebrew. However I will do a search myself when I go home and research the uses of "Israel" in reference to the land. It simply seems odd to me that Jacobs encounter and Gods' naming him Israel would loose some of its signifcance by later applying that name not only to his seed but also to the land which they were promissed.

I am pretty sure that all of the references Shiloh is refering to are refering to the land that was promised to the Nation or people of Israel. Israel being Jacob and all his desendants. I don't think in those days that the land itself was refered to as Israel but as the property of the nation of Isreal.

Ok. So you guys are saying that a woman should, whether or not she wants to, give birth to the rapisists child? Understandably they all have an option to give up the child for adoption which would make sense. I guess, from a Christian perspective, it would make more sense for the woman to have the child and give it up for adoption than to abort the pregnancy and end an innocent life. You must understand that a woman that was raped might, at this point, consider that child an abomination. I cannot simply disregard the mental health of the victim. What would any of you suggest be done for the rape victim? Government funded counciling? There should definately be a law enacted that would secure a womans job should she be required to give birth to this child. Definantely, if there is a law preventing the woman from aborting then the government should pay all her hospital bills also.

Are you saying that all rape victims should have to give birth to an illigitimate child?

BTW Tess I resent your attacking me as if I were saying ALL abortions should be legal. I only said that rape victims deserve some compassion too. This may be a sensitive subject for you but try directing your anger at someone who actually deserves it.

You guys are bashing me as if I was promoting abortion. I believe abortion should be LIMITED to only the most extreme cases. Its the definition of "extreme" that we are at an empasse on. I don't think a minor that has been raped by her father, step-father or whoever should be forced to give birth. Sure, even then that child should be considered alive at conception but we have to choose the lesser of two evils, or perhaps you would rather the child be mentaly scarred above and beyond the rape she had to endure. I am not saying that abortion is a good thing but it has its place as does everything else. I admit I look at it differently than most of you. Considerring the huge numbers of abortions we know occur yearly, would it not be better if they were limited to only the most extreme cases? Yes I consider rape an extreme circumstance. As long as the fetus does not suffer I see no need to force any woman to give birth to a child concieved under such circumstances. This does not mean that I aprove of ANY abortion as long as the fetus does not suffer. Try not to make me out to be a bad person because I show an equal amount of pity on both the fetus and the rape victim. This is the one circumstance where I feel the woman should be allowed to choose. Rape and risk to the mother are the only abortions I could concievably consider permissable/necessary.

Even then it was neither Palestine or Israel. In the days that Jesus walked among us it was comprised of smaller territories like Samaria, Judea and Galilee. Its nothing less than disappointing that your Bible calls it Palestine. Its more proof of the unabashed tampering with the word to rewrite history. Such is Satans influence on worldly men.

Websters Dictionary occupy One entry found for occupy. Main Entry: oc

Yes, I agree. The baby is alive at conception, but there has to be a middle ground, a comprimise. We need to look at both sides. What if the woman was raped and carried the child full term only to be at risk of dying herself. What then? Should she be forced to die for a child that was forced upon her? Yes, I would be happy if not one child had to be aborted. I can tell you this, if you outlawed all abortion on the planet, it would still occur. So, would you choose to regulate those abortions that did occur, or would you prefer that these desparate women use a coat hanger, or worse, abandon the baby in a dumpster? Thats the truth of it. The world your thinking of, where values as high as yours, are commonplace, is not here yet.

Yes it has. Gods' love is infinate but his patience surely is not. The point of what? The point is the same as with any argument. Both sides ultimately want the other to admit they understand their grievances. But, more times that not, both sides want the other to say it is correct or dominant. It reminds me of two puppies I was watching yesterday. One would "mount" the other to accert its dominance over the other. It was instinctive, but something we might consider needless. Even in the world of men, there must be a dominant figure. What man has forgotten is that God meant for us to look to him for leadership, governance and to instruct us in his ways. Its when man sets himself before and above others that his sinful nature flourishes.

Incest is definately not a justifiable reason but rape in any form is definately a situation where I believe the woman should have a say. I assumed in this instance, incest was refering to rape by a childs father since they put rape first. I would agree that the wording of the line they wished to add was perhaps too vague in the diferentiation of the two "reasons for exception". A child resulting from the mutually consenting intercourse of a male and female should never be considered for adoption unless that pregnancy would endanger the life of the mother or where severe deformation would reduce quality of life to nothing more than daily suffering. Understandably this would be tough to determine at an early stage but perhaps as medical knowlege improves some levels of genetic testing will identify certain defects early.