ConScience

And that was what I was hoping we would all get out of this: understanding of one another! Please - all you want to do is belittle those who are Christ

FINALLY! I knew I could count on you, MG. Phew, it's like getting blood out of a stone. Would you say that others believe the same thing, too? I thought that some Christians believed that the earth was only 10,000 years old. Is that true, or was I mistaken? No, you're not mistaken; some do believe that. Some believe as I do, many do not. What's really important is that we ALL believe God created us, He is the one true God and He sent His son, Jesus, to atone for our sin to grant us a way to salvation. That Jesus died for us, was resurrected after three days and ascended to Heaven. That He will return to establish His Kingdom on earth; that we will all stand before Him in judgment, every knee will bow and acknowledge Him as God and we will all receive our final reward or punishment. Yes, I got the Every Knee Shall Bow thing from HorizonEast, too. So I guess you've already had a pow-wow. Thanks anyway, MG.

You appear to be more delusion and desperate with each new post. God, who exists outside of nature created the universe and that truth does not violate science. The Day will come when all will realize this truth and that includes you. "Every knee will bow... and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" Hmm ... I guess I extend my comment about Shiloh include you, too, HorizonEast: it's people like you and Shiloh that make me glad I'm not a Christian. You have done plenty in 3 days to alienate me and others seeking to understand your point of view. I suppose, now that was you intention all along. Too bad. I did post this, to attempt to summarize your position as a starting point, but what's the use? You're all about turning people away. Did you ever think that people were coming here because they wanted to reconsider their position? Very sad.

And that was what I was hoping we would all get out of this: understanding of one another! But....I don't think all the voters are Christians. How to get around that? I know ... it's tricky. I know most of them are - we (note I'm sharing the responsibility!) should have asked all of them to post as they voted, so we could keep track. Ah well, next time! And I can't even VOTE on SpiritMan's poll (I think I jumped the gun out of eagerness, and tried to vote while he was still posting!)

Clarification Nick – are you here to defend Darwinism or are you here simply to attack the faith of Jesus Christ? I think the truth is becoming clear. I'm sorry ... I was getting frustrated ... see my other post! http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index...t&p=1451924

FINALLY! I knew I could count on you, MG. Phew, it's like getting blood out of a stone. Would you say that others believe the same thing, too? I thought that some Christians believed that the earth was only 10,000 years old. Is that true, or was I mistaken?

Since evolution has been de-bunked hey? Well the problem you face is convincing the scientific community (and a heck of a lot more) of that. Since you can't (and won't), evolution sticks. It's all in your mind, Christopher, all in your mind. And in a lot of other people's minds, too. Just like Christianity, really. Except science has evidence (as you've seen from the hundreds of links we've posted).

Since evolution has been de-bunked hey? Well the problem you face is convincing the scientific community (and a heck of a lot more) of that. Since you can't (and won't), evolution sticks. It was pretty easy for them to debunk science, wasn't it. They should go on to prove that black is white, a la Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Your evidence is not "convincing evidence" for Darwinian evolution at all - you are simply committing the fallacy of "begging the question

You misrepresented yourself from the get-go Nick

Interesting that you should accuse me of that. Yet all I've asked for it for you to explain your ideas to me. And that is what Worthy exists for, isn't it? I'm not trying to sow discord or doubt. I'd be happier if you all had the same ideas, actually, so unity would be preferable - at least that way I could get my head around it all. You're right about one thing: my agenda is not to educate. It is to exchange views.

SM: I'm not here to prove anything. I know it's difficult for you to hear, but I'm here to understand, not present theories. I never said that I was going to prove anything, or convert anyone. All I've ever asked for form this board is the OHTER side of the story ... YOUR side. That's what Worthy exists for, not for scientists to expound their theories, but for YOU guys to share YOUR ideas. To be quite honest, after Shiloh's perpetual badgering, I'm glad that I'm not a Christian. He's exactly the sort of person that gives Jesus' followers a bad name.

And that was what I was hoping we would all get out of this: understanding of one another!

I came to the forum to learn, and it is clear that several posters (Shiloh, HorizonEast among them) have no interest in sharing what they believe in - and they are not interested in hearing other opinions, so I guess that's about all from me. Add to that the fact that I can no longer take part in polls or send/receive PMs (sorry, SpiritMan, the link you sent me was lost with my PM privileges), I'm going to prove my Mum wrong when she said "an educated person doesn't take a hint". Nice getting to know some of you a little. Peace, Nick

Well, I finally see the light. I came to the forum to learn, and it is clear that several posters (Shiloh, HorizonEast among them) have no interest in sharing what they believe in - and they are not interested in hearing other opinions, so I guess that's about all from me. Add to that the fact that I can no longer take part in polls or send/receive PMs (sorry, SpiritMan, the link you sent me was lost with my PM privileges), I'm going to prove my Mum wrong when she said "an educated person doesn't take a hint". Nice getting to know some of you a little. Peace, Nick

I know they are not related, which is the basis of my question. YOU were the one who made the leap in logic between the two. Seeing that they are unrelated my question was why believing in man's creation per the Biblical record, necessitates the rejection of Copernicus' theory. You still have not provided any rational reason why YOU linked them together like you did. I didn't make it about you. I made it about the truth. The Bible says that man created man from the dust of the earth (negating any possible means of evolution and the Bible coming to a point of agreement). I stated I believe the Bible. If I made the link, it was totally unconscious. My apologies. Logically, they are linked because the bible is a story and not reality. You believe in the bible that tells you that you were created from clay, which is mainly silicates. THis is totally irrational, and so we have no possibility of communication rationally any longer. Thank you, Shiloh, and goodnight.

Really? Tell me what the explanation is, and I am confident that I cam make a similar (though much better researched one, with more evidence to back it). And, actually, let's reverse the roles completely, and I'll put the Christian argument against the Copernican Theory!. I'm totally serious - we could both learn a lot! (We can critique each other's arguments along the way!).

I like your poll Not trivial at all. Thanks, Agua!

A GREAT post, SM. I like polls! (It won't let me vote, though!)

Yeah. He's God. He can do that. So, you are created from silicates? The Bible says that man is created from the dust/dirt of the earth. It means what it means. It means what it means. Wow. deep stuff. Are you just going to spout truisms, or man up and say what you believe? Do you believe you are made of silicates or not? Simple question, requiring a simple "I do" or "I do not". I'm trying to understand what you believe. You're ALMOST there in telling me. One more sentence, Shiloh! Go on, you can DO it! There is nothing deep about it. God created man from the dust of the earth. I believe the Bible. If you call dust/clay silicates, then I have answered your question. Edited to add: You still have not explained howbelieving that man is created from the dust of earth means that one must reject the Copernicus theory. The two (Copernicus' Theory / man from clay) are not at all related. I assume an intelligent person would have realized that (to paraphrase you). And you can make it about me if you like ("If you call dust/clay silicates, then I have answered your question"), but this is about YOU (enjoy it!). You believe that man (including you) are made from silicates. That's cool. "Yeah, God can do it".

Yeah. He's God. He can do that. So, you are created from silicates? The Bible says that man is created from the dust/dirt of the earth. It means what it means. It means what it means. Wow. deep stuff. Are you just going to spout truisms, or man up and say what you believe? Do you believe you are made of silicates or not? Simple question, requiring a simple "I do" or "I do not". I'm trying to understand what you believe. You're ALMOST there in telling me. One more sentence, Shiloh! Go on, you can DO it!

What? Care to elaborate? Yeah ... and that from a moderator! Dave, do you see how that might be interpreted to be a little ... offensive?

The fact that man created God separate from all other life forms and created man in His image, precludes man evolving from some other life form, much sharing a common ancestor from another life form. The Bible says that man was created from the dust of the earth. The text indicates that man was created directly from the dust. It does not say that created an organism from dust that later evolved into God's image/likeness. The text is unambiguous on that point. So, God created man of of silicates? (dust of the earth ... clay ... both silicates). Yeah. He's God. He can do that. So, you are created from silicates?

You don't seem to understand my question: Is right and wrong NOT the same as good and evil? Is right not equal to good. And wrong not equal to bad?

The fact that man created God separate from all other life forms and created man in His image, precludes man evolving from some other life form, much sharing a common ancestor from another life form. The Bible says that man was created from the dust of the earth. The text indicates that man was created directly from the dust. It does not say that created an organism from dust that later evolved into God's image/likeness. The text is unambiguous on that point. So, God created man of of silicates? (dust of the earth ... clay ... both silicates).