WailingWall

9 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I see you are working away from the Sabbath question which you still have not answered. 

Why would i do that. I like meat

1 COR. 3 [1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. [2] I HAVE FED YOU WITH MILK, AND NOT WITH MEAT: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. [3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 

HEBREWS 5 [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] FOR EVERY ONE THAT USETH MILK IS UNSKILFUL IN THE WORD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS: FOR HE IS A BABE. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
 
The two above new testament scriptures tell us we should be teachers of the word but also tells us everyone that uses milk is unskilful in the word. 
 
ISAIAH 28  [9] WHOM SHALL HE TEACH KNOWLEDGE? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? THEM THAT ARE WEANED FROM THE MILK, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, THIS IS THE REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and THIS IS THE REFRESHING: yet they would not hear.

In Hebrews 5 the scripture tells us we should be teachers of the Word but we dont get it, we are still just babes, milk drinkers. In Isaiah we see that those whom God will teach knowledge and whom he shall make to understand doctrine are those who are weaned from the milk. Who are these milk drinkers (verse 12) that dont understand doctrine? To whom he said this is the rest and the refreshing, but they refused to hear. Rest? Refreshing?

EXODUS 31  [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and ON THE SEVENTH DAY HE RESTED, AND WAS REFRESHED.

Heres a scripture that speaks of a rest and a refreshing. And yes, the milk drinkers do refuse to hear that scripture.

GOT MILK?

2 hours ago, 1sheep said:

Im feeling fine today btw. 

Im sure you are being from Carolina. Ya warm enough. Its cold and nasty here!

2 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Yes it does.  She plainly separated God from Jesus in a statement of how she "kept" the Sabbath.  If she does not believe that Jesus is God that makes the rest of her doctrine and theology suspect.  That Jesus is also God is a simple core belief and if one gets wrong, they will get everything else wrong.  

Ok. Your saying if someone believes in the rapture the way its presented by the "many" dont believe a word they say on other matters? But... aint a broken clock right twice a day.

6 hours ago, 1sheep said:

A simple yes or no will suffice. 

Is Jesus God? 

Does this question have anything to do with the sabbath. A simple yes or no will suffice

11 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I am not claiming anything.  I am asking you if you advocate keeping the Sabbath.  Shouldn't be a difficult question to answer.

And i answered that question. I said not only the 4th but all 10. Then you go on to say i didnt answer your question. You OK?

There are “many” who will claim ya cant mix grace and the law
       
JOHN 1 [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.

This scripture says Jesus was full of grace. Did He keep the law? The sabbath
 

9 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I am not claiming anything.  I am asking you if you advocate keeping the Sabbath.  Shouldn't be a difficult question to answer.

Not only the 4th but all 10

ISAIAH 8 [16] Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.[17] And I WILL WAIT UPON THE LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.[18] Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.[19] And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?[20] TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my diciples and wait on the Lord. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them (explained right after John 3{16}). Didn’t Jesus say that he was the light of the world?

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. [2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old: [3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. [4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done. [5] For HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: [6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children: [7] THAT THEY MIGHT SET THEIR HOPE IN GOD, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: 

Who opened his mouth in a parable? Yup, Jesus Christ. And this scripture says he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, that they might set their hope in God and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. 

PSALM 119 [32] I will run the way of THY COMMANDMENTS, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.(2COR.6 v.11) [33] Teach me, O Lord, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end. [34] Give me understanding, and I SHALL KEEP THY LAW; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart. [35] Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight. [36] Incline my heart unto THY TESTIMONIES, and not to covetousness. [37] Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way. [38] Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear. [39] Turn away my reproach which I fear: for thy judgments are good. [40] Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness. [41] Let thy mercies come also unto me, O Lord, EVEN THY SALVATION, according to thy word. 

Here again we find it’s the law (commandments) and the testimony (of Jesus) and this leads to SALVATION.

PSALM 119 [165] Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. [166] Lord, I have hoped for thy SALVATION, and done THY COMMANDMENTS. [167] My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly. [168] I have kept thy precepts and THY TESTIMONIES: for all my ways are before thee. 

and here again

REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.
 

On 11/8/2018 at 6:38 PM, Betha said:

sorry if I have not expressed myself clearly ! Yashua/Jesus did NOT rise at dusk  on the first day of the week...and scripture does not say that, nor did I.

Jesus rose BEFORE sunset on the sabbath (making it a sabbath-resurrection) because that He was also entombed/buried BEFORE sunset on the 'preparation (of a ANNUAL Holy day which was NOT a friday but a Wednesday) Lk 23v54..

Hi Betha

I studied the 3 days and 3 nights for quite a long time. I found what you found

On 11/4/2018 at 1:41 AM, KiwiChristian said:

 

a) The New Testament never commands Christians to worship or meet on the Saturday Sabbath. Instead, Christians meet on the first day of the week, Sunday, in the following Bible passages:

Colossians 2:16,17 “Let no man judge you in ... holy days or Sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come.”

 

The “many” claim that the sabbath was the shadow of Christ. But what do the scriptures say

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ORDINANCES {meat and drink offerings} has been blotted out. They were the shadow 

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY  in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

Meat offering by ordinance. There ya go. Hebrews 9 was ofcourse correct

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings). Hebrews 10{1} says that plain and clear. The Word does not say the sabbath was the shadow of Christ which really makes no sence at all

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

Before Christ the red heifers lived their lives in fear and trembling, thinking they might be next offering. No worries no more.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

We are no longer under the law concerning the meat and drink offerings{the shadow}. Jesus FULFILLED that portion of the law. Its all grace now!  Jesus Himself said “For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed”. 
 

4 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Are you claiming that you keep the Sabbath?

Are you gonna claim im not because im quoting scripture on the sabbath

On 11/4/2018 at 1:41 AM, KiwiChristian said:

a) The New Testament never commands Christians to worship or meet on the Saturday Sabbath. Instead, Christians meet on the first day of the week, Sunday, in the following Bible passages:

Acts 20:7 Paul preached to Christians at Troas whose habit was to meet to break bread on the first day of the week.

ACTS 20 [7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.[8] And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

The above scripture is used by the many to convince people that sunday was being kept as a day of rest instead of the sabbath during the time of Paul. They will point out that on the first day of the week they came together to “break bread” and thus the believers of Pauls time were following sunday as the “new testament” day of rest.

ACTS 2 [42] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.[43] And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.[44] And all that believed were together, and had all things common;[45] And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.[46] And they, CONTINUING DAILY with one accord in the temple, AND BREAKING BREAD from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

But as you can see they “broke bread” daily. Not just on the first day of the week. They were simply eating. The fact is, you will find no where in the new testament anyone keeping sunday as a day of rest.

LUKE 4  [14] And JESUS returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, AS HIS CUSTOM WAS, he WENT INTO THE SYNAGOGUE ON THE SABBATH DAY, and stood up for to read.

JESUS kept the sabbath

ACTS 17  [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

PAUL kept the sabbath

ACTS 13  [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, THE GENTILES BESOUGHT THAT THESE WORDS MIGHT BE PREACHED TO THEM THE NEXT SABBATH.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And THE NEXT SABBATH DAY CAME ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD.

GENTILES come together on the sabbath to hear the WORD.

Can anyone show me in scripture where the Word of God actually changes or does away with the sabbath day of rest? Anywhere in the new testament? How about in the old testament? Anywhere?

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

During the time of Paul there were also many who accused Paul, saying he was not keeping Gods law (which includes the sabbath). Just as it is today, nobody seems to be able to prove that.
 

My next question..... What about Job?

1 THES. 4 [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1COR.15  [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Will Job be amoung the dead in Christ who will be “changed” at the 1Cor.15 event?

1 CORINTHIANS 10[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all OUR FATHERS were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK that followed them: and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

Yes, according to scripture

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Job says after the heavens be no more, then shall his "change" come

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. Which occurs {according to scripture} after the great tribulation

ISAIAH 34 [2] For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.[3] Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.[4] And all the host of HEAVEN SHALL BE DISSOLVED, and the heavens shall be rolled together AS A SCROLL: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [8] For it is THE DAY OF THE LORD'S VENGEANCE, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

REVELATION 6 [12] And I beheld when he had opened THE SIXTH SEAL, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; ......[14] And the heaven departed AS A SCROLL when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places...... [16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So scripture proves Job will be changed {in the twinkling of an eye} after the tribulation period on the Day of the Lord. So why wasnt he invited to the to the pre-trib rapture 
 

ISAIAH 24 [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, CHANGED THE ORDINANCE, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

A Day of the Lord scripture. It seems the many will go on believing what they’ve been taught by their sunday mourning pulpiteers. They will continue to believe the commandments mentioned in Eph.2 are the 10 commandments and not the law of commandments contained in the ordinances
 

On 10/27/2018 at 7:36 PM, Willa said:

You left out the next verse  :

Eph 2:15 NKJV     having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

and

Col 2:13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;  Col 2:14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;  Col 2:15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Why would i do that Willa. Its just more scriptural proof that what i say is true. 

COL.2 [14] Blotting out THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus blotted out “only” the handwriting of the ordinances. 

2 KINGS 17 [36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] And the statutes, AND the ordinances, AND the law, AND the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

“Many” have come in the name of Christ and would have you to believe the law, the ordinances and the commandments are all lumped together as one. They do this so they can point out a scripture which talking about the law of circumcision (which was nailed to the cross) and then apply that scripture to the ten commandments. But as you can see in above scripture, the ordinances, the law, and the commandments are all separate. And it was not the law nor the ten commandments that Jesus nailed to the cross. It was the law contained in the ordinances.

EXODUS 12 [11] And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [12] For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord. [13] And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. [14] And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it A FEAST BY AN ORDINANCE FOR EVER.

Theres one of the feast days (holy days) which are to be kept by ordinance. The Lords passover

NUMBERS 28 [16] And in the fourteenth day of the first month is THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD. [17] And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. [18] In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein: [19] But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the Lord; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish: [20] And their MEAT OFFERING shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram; [21] A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs: [22] And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you. [23] Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering. [24] After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his DRINK OFFERING. 

Here we see the Lords passover and the meat and drink offering which are in the handwriting of that ordinance

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary...... [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

If you believe Hebrews 9 youll understand its the meat and drink offerings of the new moons, feast days and the sabbath days that were nailed to the cross

19 hours ago, WilliamL said:

 

Your answer is right here:

Heb. 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24  And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

Gal. 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 

Not a single word about going to heaven at the so called rapture. Not a one. You do know the new Jerusalem will be here on earth. Right.

EZEK.37
[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, and bring you into the land of Israel.
[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
 
Theres THE DEAD IN CHRIST who rise first (1Thes.4). The first resurrection. But..... there not headin for heaven. 
 
[21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND:

Ya see the resurrection of Zeke 37 and how the Lord gathers them and brings them to Jerusalem {the kingdom}. Its clearly where they are going. No figurin, no speculating. Thats what it says. You will find no scripture saying we are goin to heaven at the 1Cor.15 event

14 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

  On 9/29/2018 at 12:34 AM,WailingWall said:

After we are changed in the twinkling of an eye are there any scriptures that directly say we are headin for heaven?

How about this: 

*[[1Th 3:13]] KJV* To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness BEFORE GOD , even our FATHER, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

It says we will be presented before God the Father at Jesus's coming. 

Blessings

The PuP 

 

Dont see it PUP. Its a manner of speech.

Acts 23:1 (KJV)
¹ And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.

You dont think Paul lived in good conscience before God up in heaven do ya? Course not.

 

On 10/14/2018 at 12:04 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

There is nothing in Ephesians to suggest that in Jesus Christ, the Gentiles are called to Joing the Jews in the animal sacrifices in the Temple....

Uhh... Where did i ever suggest we are to keep the animal sacrifices {the meat and drink offerings that were to be performed on the new moons, feast days and sabbaths}? Is this what Trump calls fake news?

On 11/23/2016 at 7:13 PM, Ezra said:

The question of Torah observance was already addressed in depth in Acts 15.  And there is no mention there of the seventh day sabbath. 

Well.... just look a little deeper

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
 
ACTS 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not. 

ACTS 15 [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That IT WAS NEEDFUL TO CIRCUMCISE THEM, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Nothing to do with the 10 commandments. So lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Its there we find that we are to be keeping Gods sabbath day.

LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord. 

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.
 
I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. We could have a debate on what an idol is but that would go nowhere but in circles. Does your church have any standing images? I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses. 

LEVITICUS 9 [2]And he said unto Aaron, Take thee a young calf for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the Lord.

Before Christ a young calf was used as a sin offering?
 
DEUT. 9 [16]And I looked, and, behold, ye had sinned against the Lord your God, and had made you a molten calf: ye had turned aside quickly out of the way which the Lord had commanded you.

And as Moses went up the mount to receive the 10 commandments the people below made a graven image that resembled that sin offering. They made a molten calf. God was not happy with these people. I wonder if some of them made the claim that it was not really a graven image, only a likeness of the sin offering. Now of course the crucified Jesus is our offering for sin.  
 

On 10/9/2018 at 1:36 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

Very interesting observations...

How can we approach these questions...

Moses open the door to the Law....

-for the children of Abraham only, and only those from the house of Jacob- Israelites-

Yeah, the covenants were originally given only to Israel. We were STRANGERS from the covenants. BUT NOW!

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

The above scripture points to one of those covenants spoken of in Ephes.2 

ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

And you can see who Paul lumps in with the covenantbreakers. Not good company 
 

On 10/6/2018 at 2:23 AM, WailingWall said:

My next question is, why do the Rapturist believe the LAST trumpet isnt really the LAST trumpet

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

 MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Yes, the trumpet blown in Matt.24 is the last trumpet of 1Cor.15

 ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel.[13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

The GREAT trumpet {also found in Matt.24} shall be blown. His people gathered. Its off to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. Not headin for heaven

Come on you Rapturist, youve got to have some sort of answer to this question or you might as well throw your rapture into the dumpster.

14 hours ago, HAZARD said:

We are no longer under the law, we are under grace.

JOHN 1 [15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. [16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. [17] FOR THE LAW WAS GIVEN BY MOSES, BUT GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.

What law was givin by Moses? 

LEVITICUS 16  [15] Then shall he KILL THE GOAT OF THE SIN OFFERING, that is for the people, and BRING HIS BLOOD WITHIN THE VAIL, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

Under the law of Moses the sin offering was the blood of animals {meat and drink offerings which were the shadow of Christ}. They were brought within the vail. When Christ died on the cross the vail was rent {Luke 23v45}

LUKE 23 [44] And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. [45] And the sun was darkened, and THE VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT in the midst. [46] And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The law fulfilled. No more shadows. Keep in mind the shadow of Christ were the meat and drink offerings that were performed on the new moons, feast days and the sabbath days

EPHESIANS 1  [6] To the praise of the glory of HIS GRACE, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of HIS GRACE;

By grace our sins are now forgiven through His blood and not the blood of animals

HEBREWS 13  [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that THE HEART BE ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

Hebrews 13 says it all. We are no longer under that portion of the law of Moses. It has been fulfilled by Christ. No more meat and drink offerings for the forgivness of sins.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.
 
There are some who will claim ya cant mix grace and the law
       
JOHN 1 [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.

This scripture says Jesus was full of grace. Did He keep the law? The sabbath
 

4 hours ago, Riccardo said:

Thanks Hazard,  

My friend was worried about his salvation because he is having an affair, I just needed clarification, I told him we weren't under the law so its ok.

 

Eye opening Riccardo. Clever

On 9/29/2018 at 6:02 PM, HAZARD said:

The law is not in force and it has no claim or authority over the person under the new covenant. He is under the obligation to keep the new covenant laws and commandments,

I agree. Heres some of those new covenant commands

DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFE
MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, GOOD MASTER, WHAT GOOD THING SHALL I DO, THAT I MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

DO YOU KNOW GOD
1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT “JUST BELIEVE” AND YOU WILL BE SAVED
JAMES 2 [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

DO YOU LOVE GOD
1 JOHN 5 [1]  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. [2] BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 
 
DO YOU WANT GODS HOLY SPIRIT
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

HAS HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED – YIKES! WHAT AM I STANDING ON?
MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

WANT TO BE ONE OF GODS SAINTS
REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and the faith of Jesus

BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO FAITH WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 3 [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

WANT TO ENTER THE CITY - THE 1000yr PERIOD OF REST
REV.22 [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

FROM THE WRITINGS OF PAUL
1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS of God. 

My next question is, why do the Rapturist believe the LAST trumpet isnt really the LAST trumpet

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

 MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Yes, the trumpet blown in Matt.24 is the last trumpet of 1Cor.15

 ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel.[13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

The GREAT trumpet {also found in Matt.24} shall be blown. His people gathered. Its off to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. Not headin for heaven

On 9/29/2018 at 6:02 PM, HAZARD said:

Wherefor the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, THAT we might be justified by faith. BUT AFTER that faith is come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER" (Gal 3:19-25).

Not being under the law here is explained as being out from under its authority like one who is no longer under a schoolmaster when we graduate from school. The law is not in force and it has no claim or authority over the person under the new covenant.

GALATIANS 3[10] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[12] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[13] CHRIST HATH REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[14] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; THAT WE MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH.

 DEUT.11 [26] Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;[27] A BLESSING, IF YE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH I COMMAND YOU THIS DAY:[28] AND A CURSE, IF YE WILL NOT OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD YOUR GOD, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known

 The “many” will tell you the law itself is the curse. Just read Deut.11 to know the truth. Christ did not come to destroy the law but  came to redeem us from the curse of the law that we might recieve the promise of the spirit through FAITH. BUT...

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus

Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law {the 10 commandments, the schoolmaster}. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

 Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

 REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

 Faith and the commandments. “Many” will say you cant mix faith and the law. Show them Rev.14