Izzel

 

 

 

 

In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

deliverance is protection in the hour of trial on the earth for the saints not rapturing them away

 

Exactly, if you study the Greek, it can easily mean "keep you safe during the hour of trial". I personally just associate the hour of trial with the day of the Lord... but the souls of Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation even if we are physically martyred.

 

Then if all the Christians go into the tribulation we would all have our heads cut off because we would probably not take the Mark.Do you think God wants that for His children?

 

If we are talking about us as his children .. or the view of tribulation saints... its clear that God allows persecution and trials for his children. He surely does not want it, but God is aware that there is a spiritual war and evil on this earth, and we are the light within the evil environment. When light shines in the darkness it is exposed ... and in this evil world this will bring persecutions.

Verse for the great tribulation:

Dan 7 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Rev 13 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.

Rev 12 she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Note in all 3 cases the church is persecuted for 3.5 years. This is a definite future event. In context these are not treated as a new holy people that is suddenly persecuted, but context seems to indicate its an existing holy people that then undergo persecution.

The bible is clear that many are martyred, and yet the bible is also clear that there are many elect that are raptured at the second coming as well. Let's not speculate about all being beheaded, the scriptures say that we wont all be beheaded. We will all be raptured when Jesus comes, the dead will rise first.

 

The 3.5 years has past already yet still the saint will be persecuted 

What is tithe,I just want to know if it is biblical that every christian must pay tithe,can not paying tithe hinder someone from been address as a born again or a righteous person,is tithe a God's command,that every christian must obey,can a christian who is very faitheful in paying tithe,but still pratice some worldly things,be regard as a righteous person,can a christian who detest to pratice worldly things,but doesn't pay his/her tithe,be regard as a righteous person,can" not paying tithe stop someone from making heaven.your opinion can be of help.may the good God bless you, as you look into my post.

Do you think Jesus condem the paying of tithes ?

The Holy Spirit is God's seal on His people,His claim on us as His very own.We are sealed when we become true believers.

Who are the 144 000 ?

 

 

Izzel

 

Scripture please.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

you know the scripture and the beast out of the earth is america 

 

So is American thrown alive into the Lake of Fire (which is for Satan and his angels and those people not in the Lambs Book of Life.  I hope you are not living in America at that time.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

i hope i am still living there because the blood of the lamb is protection 

The whole of america well what can i say if you say so but i know the lake of fire is for wicked angels and people 

 

 

 

Do we go to heaven ?

 

Only born again christians go to heaven Izzel. Forgiveness is granted for those who ask and accept.

 

No one goes to heaven thats a lie God said the meek shall inherit the earth not heaven thy kingdom come 

 

 

Yeah, good luck with..

 

whatever you're searching for. Peace. - DRS81

 

Thanks alot see you in heaven 

I wonder what this verse means

⁸And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It means that all all who have NOT been born again, their names not having been written in (Christ) the Lamb's book of life, will worship satan the dragon and the antichrist( the beast) for 3 1/2 years. Rev. 13: 3-8.

So would you say that the majority of the world adheres to false doctrine wheather they go to church or not ?

you mean 3 1/2 years why not now ?

I AM TELLING YOU WHAT WAS IN THE PASSAGE IN REVELATIONS THAT I QUOTED. Rev. 13:5 says 42 months and that equals 3.5 years. We are not currently in the tribulation period.

I don't know where you are getting your information but I believe that there is an agenda involved. You do not seem to be genuinly asking questions but seem to be trying to teach us or twist our words. Only certain people are allowed to teach on Worthy, such as moderaters or servents. You don't have any such credentials.

Anyhow the multitude follow babylon Some so called christians and non christians

 

Do we go to heaven ?

 

Only born again christians go to heaven Izzel. Forgiveness is granted for those who ask and accept.

 

No one goes to heaven thats a lie God said the meek shall inherit the earth not heaven thy kingdom come 

I wonder what this verse means

⁸And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It means that all all who have NOT been born again, their names not having been written in (Christ) the Lamb's book of life, will worship satan the dragon and the antichrist( the beast) for 3 1/2 years. Rev. 13: 3-8.

So would you say that the majority of the world adheres to false doctrine wheather they go to church or not ?

you mean 3 1/2 years why not now ?

I AM TELLING YOU WHAT WAS IN THE PASSAGE IN REVELATIONS THAT I QUOTED. Rev. 13:5 says 42 months and that equals 3.5 years. We are not currently in the tribulation period.

I don't know where you are getting your information but I believe that there is an agenda involved. You do not seem to be genuinly asking questions but seem to be trying to teach us or twist our words. Only certain people are allowed to teach on Worthy, such as moderaters or servents. You don't have any such credentials.

sounds more like you are trying to teach me and i get my information from the bible my friend 

Where do you get yours ?

let me ask you where will the church be for the 42 months or 3 1/2 years ?

All born again Christians will spend eternity in the presence of Christ. He is in us now and we will never be separated from Him, whether He is in heaven or on earth, or in the New Jeruselem.

Why are you so concerned about the earth? When we go to be with Christ and are reunited with our bodies, we will not have earthly bodies but we shall be like Him, having a transformed body. Rev. 21 speaks of the first earth and heaven passing away. We are supposed to set our heart on things that will not pass away.

By the way, most people that I have encountered think they will go to heaven because they are just as good as the next guy or because they hope the good will outweigh the bad. That means most people are not trusting in Christ's death to pay for their sins, and most people are headed for hell. I have even encountered liberal church goers who believe those things, which is a tragedy.

What did Abraham and the ancient saints looked for ?

Hebrews 13:14.11:10

 ¹⁴For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

¹⁰For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

What is this city ? John 14 : 1-3

¹Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

 ²In my Father 's house are many  mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 ³And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Will we ascend to this city or will the city descend to us?

Revelation 21:2-3,10 Rev 3:12

 ²And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.          

³And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

¹⁰And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

 

Thunder

 

My Scriptures were on both sides of the A/D:  Rev 13 all in the first half of the week. One beast comes out of the "sea", which had ten horns (this is an empire or kingdom).  One of the heads (leader/human, yet also called a beast) of the beast (empire) had a fatal wound by a sword an yet lived (v.3 and 14b).  The whole world was astonished and followed the beast (with the fatal wound).  This indicates a time of peace, for all follow.  Israel lives in peace at this time. 

 

example; when your children follow your instructions there is peace in the house (they my not like the instructions), but they follow them.  Then what happens when they do not follow your instructions, some form of chaos develops (a butting of heads, go to your room or a spanking).  This will be like those who do not accept the mark (a butting of heads) and followed by discipline which is (Captivity - [go to your bedroom] or being killed by the sword - spanking (Rev 12:1

 

The thing is those who do not accept the mark will consist of two groups; First being the tribulations saints, most who are killed by the sword - many being beheaded, Secondly being non saints, those of which will be ushered into the Mill, all of this group would have gone into captivity.

 

This first part of the example is the environment during the first half the the 70th week.  A prime time to issue the mark of the beast to be able to buy and sell.  Yet when the Second Seal is opened peace is taken from the earth.

 

This is why I say the 2nd Seal is definitely after the A/D.  A collapse of the structure of the first half of the 70th week.  It becomes a free for all.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

PS  What assumptions will you give us.

A confirming of a covenant for 7 years does not create a kingdom or empire, nor would it cause everyone to follow and/or worship him.

Let me ask you this: We have two beast's, one coming out of the sea and the other coming out of the earth, are one of these the antichrist? If so, which one, and why?

Cheers

 

Who is a Anti Christ ?

Therefore both are antichrist 

the saints are gathered after the tribulation at the last trumpet and NOT BEFORE . As Jesus descends , the saints ascends to meet him in the air   (1st heaven) on the clouds .Then the angels gathers them on the clouds where they will then transport the saints from all over the world to Mt Zion  in Jerusalem to rule with Christ 1000yrs .

What happens after Jesus 1000yr rule?

Will this Kingdom be located in heaven or under heaven (on the earth) ? Dan 7: 27

²⁷And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him

Will the Righteous be removed from this Earth? Proverbs 10:30 2:21

³⁰The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

Will the righteous inherit Heaven or earth? Ps 37:29 Mat 5:5

 ²⁹The righteous shall inherit the land, (new earth) and dwell therein for ever.

All born again Christians will spend eternity in the presence of Christ. He is in us now and we will never be separated from Him, whether He is in heaven or on earth, or in the New Jeruselem.

Why are you so concerned about the earth? When we go to be with Christ and are reunited with our bodies, we will not have earthly bodies but we shall be like Him, having a transformed body. Rev. 21 speaks of the first earth and heaven passing away. We are supposed to set our heart on things that will not pass away.

By the way, most people that I have encountered think they will go to heaven because they are just as good as the next guy or because they hope the good will outweigh the bad. That means most people are not trusting in Christ's death to pay for their sins, and most people are headed for hell. I have even encountered liberal church goers who believe those things, which is a tragedy.

because false doctrine is not of God thus we are to teach the truth 

I wonder what this verse means

⁸And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It means that all all who have NOT been born again, their names not having been written in (Christ) the Lamb's book of life, will worship satan the dragon and the antichrist( the beast) for 3 1/2 years. Rev. 13: 3-8.

 you mean 3 1/2 years why not now ?

For what purpose was  this earth made ?  Isaiah 45:18                      

    ¹⁸For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to    be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

To whom does Heaven belong? Ps115:16

¹⁶The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men

Izzel

 

If the 70th Week is already completed;  When did Daniels people (Israel) and his holy city (Jerusalem)  complete the six tasks of Dan 9:24.?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

"From the time the commandment goes forth to build Jerusalem" unto the Messiah the prince.

Did such a commandment go forth and under what circumstances and when? 

Izzel

 

If the 70th Week is already completed;  When did Daniels people (Israel) and his holy city (Jerusalem)  complete the six tasks of Dan 9:24.?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Izzel

 

If the 70th Week is already completed;  When did Daniels people (Israel) and his holy city (Jerusalem)  complete the six tasks of Dan 9:24.?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Izzel

 

Scripture please.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

you know the scripture and the beast out of the earth is america 

Izzel, I'm going to take your reply as an indication that you do mind me asking. This indicates to me that you're assuming what you think most other people believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, and share with us where you got your figures.

 

Saturday/Sunday worship has nothing to do with the question I asked you, and is a red herring, a distraction, because you don't want to answer my question. This isn't necessary. If you're assuming, it's ok to say so, and then we can have an honest, meaningful discussion about what most of the world really believes, and how we can gauge that, and if it's even possible to gauge.

 

 

I wonder what this verse means 

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Many  even teach contrary to the pure word of God to satisfy their desire, but Psa.115:16 says, "The heaven even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men". Won't you accept God's offer? Psa 37:9 says "For evil doers shall be cut off but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth". See also verses 11,22

. In Mt.5:5 Jesus said "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the Earth". So he agrees. But some say this is after they come back from heaven, after spending the one thousand years in heaven

Thunder

 

Neither.

 

The beast coming up out of the sea is a kingdom with ten horns (leaders).  One of these leaders or more are killed by a sword.  One of these individuals that is wound is healed and be becomes alive again (type of resurrection), this is the A/C.  .  The beast out of the earth is the False Prophet,  He is not the A/C

 

Further in Rev we see the beast and the false prophet (both of which are later thrown alive into the Lake of Fire) and the Dragon (Satan) calling for the armies of the earth to battle Christ at Armageddon.  When did Satan come the scene?  Possibly the white horse of the 1st Seal.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

The beast out of the earth is not the false prophet 

Romans 14:5-10

 

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

You should look deeper into this verses it has to do with fasting not holidays and do as one please 

 

We are not worshipping holidays, so what you said Fruitful is not clear at all.  There is nothing in scripture that forbids us from celebrating birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Groundhog Day, or the other holidays that come up each year.  I got out my concordance, and looked up every scripture where the word tradition and traditions was used, and none of them have anything to do with celebrating Christmas.  It is possible for someone to celebrate all of the man-made holidays as well as God's holy days.  In addition to that, One Light is correctly applying that passage from Romans 14.  We are not required to keep the feast days. 

You have to go deeper than a concordance to find the origins of birthdays and easter, and the likes of christmas. You have to to look into ancient history, encyclopedias, bible hand books, and the Babylonian practices. we can easily lose sight  of the special meanings of God's holy days when we vary or alter  the dates and times God instituted for us to observe. these days were meant.to be kept forever and ever, they were not temporary or part of Moses law.

God said in Deut 12;32-do not add to what I command you to observe.

Your duty is to " prove all things "-the problem with many of those man made holidays is they correspond  with many pagan practices.

We are to follow God's examples.not our personal reasoning. 

Christmas and easter were not celebrated in the bible  although the OT refers to pagan customs that were adopted to those traditions we now keep with christ as the central figure.

Jesus, and the apostles kept God's feast day years after the birth of the NTChurch-it wasn;t until hundreds of years later false teaches started to amalgamate local customs with God's festivals until they were nothing like the original Holy days God ordained.

what do you have to lose when you celebrate God's Holydays? Other than eternal life.

why the adversity to it all?

 

What feast days do you keep and why ?