Izzel

 

 

Those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God Romans 8:1.What about explaining the absence of the word "church" in all the biblical passages related to the tribulation.In Revelation 4-21 the word church never appears.

Who are God ancients ?

 

When does God roar out of Zion ?

 

Hu

 

Does this sound like matthew 24 1 Theso 4  rev 19

 Matthew's post-tribulation gathering of the elect in the sky is of Jewish Christians only?   Or, if this seems unsound, are we to deny that the gathering takes place in the sky at all, as some pre-tribbers do, claiming that the atmospheric terms used are merely symbolic of a broad, earthly gathering of Jews? If the text could not be explained literally, a symbolic view would be called for, but as there will definitely be a literal gathering of Christians in and from the sky, no one has any right to suggest this text is anything but that glorious event.

 

 

 

According to Ezekiel 39 when Israel enters a period of peace and safety this will be a SINFUL period:

“Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid.

The time of true blessing for Israel only occurs at the great earthquake which occurs at the second coming. Even Joel confirms Israel only repents on the day of the Lord:

For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; Who can endure it? “Now, therefore,” says the Lord, “Turn to Me with all your heart, With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning.

I find your references to Isaiah 66 and the parable of the fig tree very unconvincing as references to modern Israel; if read in context. However the two verses I quoted above are very definite references to future Israel before the second coming.

 

 

The blessing comes upon Israel, at Jesus's return, as they will be welcoming him as "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord".   We can fortify that from Daniel 12.

 

In Daniel 12,  

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

From that we can deduce, that the abomination of desolaton will be set up to be worshipped, 1335 days before the actual day that Jesus returns, to save the Jews trapped in Jerusalem in Zechariah 14.     The aod is the image that the false prophet has made of the slain and come back to life Antichrist.     Which in Isaiah 14, he will be brought back to life, after in Ezekiel 28:1-10 God has him killed for going into the temple and claiming to be God.    This is sort of working backwards, as I am explaining it.

 

Before going into the temple to claim to be God, he will have been ruling for about 3 years, 4 months as the illicit king of Israel.    

 

please bear with me,

 

Jesus was rejected by the Jews and Jerusalem as "the" messiah which is the promised great King of Israel, son of David, anointed.

Jesus was received after the resurrection as Savior from our sins, by first the disciples and then the gentiles. Which since then, by tradition, in Christianity, Christians have equated Savior from our sins as being the messiah. But that is not actually what "the" messiah means.

In Zechariah 9:9

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Being the King is that Jesus was the one God sent them to be the King of Israel, son of David, anointed.   He has been rejected as that King and crucified.    And it has not been fulfilled that he is occupying that Kingship, as Jerusalem has never since been willing to say to  Jesus,  welcome as that king, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

Christians understand "having salvation" is that Jesus was the one who would save us from our sins. Jews, on the other hand, as I have discussed this many times with them, "having salvation" means saved from physical destruction from one's enemies.

Which the Antichrist when he comes will have appeared to them to have fulfilled that requirement because to them he will have intended to stave off the Gog/Magog invasion. And for that they will believe he is their long awaited King of Israel, son of David anointed. He will actually be anointed in the special process that kings had been anointed with the special oil - but he will be an illicit King, someone that God did not send to be their King. He will fancy himself to be in that role, coming in his own name. But he will not be the one God sent to be their King.

 

So right after Gog/Magog, which takes place while Israel is still in a state of sin as you have noted, the little horn coming from Europe, with his EU army,  arriving a day late and a dollar short, to Israel.    Nonetheless, the Jews will perceive that he is their long awaited messiah, the person to fulfill the King of Israel, son of David.      In Daniel 9, the bible code names him the prince who shall come.     The little horn Antichrist, full of ego, perceives himself to be in that role, and commences to act that way.     On the temple mount, he will have the ceremony conducted of the law that Moses set forth for all generations at the end of every seven years, to commemorade his instructions to go in and possess the promised land.   It is in Deuteronomy 31:10-11.    Thus, he confirms the covenant (Mt. Sinai covenant) "for" seven years.

 

In the middle part of the seven years, the Antichrist illicit King of Israel, because he has been long time delving into the occult, understanding dark sentences as it says in Daniel 8, and getting help from what are fallen angels, demons, and Satan, will have reached a point where Satan will have convinced him that he has achieved God-hood.    God in the flesh.      That is when Satan enters him to go into the temple and carry out the act of 2Thessalonians 2.     The revealed man of sin, son of perdition.     Which I noted before, God has him killed in Ezekiel 28:1-10 for that act.

 

Immediately, the Jews will impeach him as their King.    And he will turn on them to destroy his land and his people.     As it says in Isaiah 14:19-20.  

 

¹⁹ But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

²⁰ Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

 

So God Himself will bring the Antichrist man of sin, son of perdition, back to life as the strong delusion that God will send, to them who believed the Antichrist's great lie that he is God in the flesh.      The Antichrist is going to be cast alive directly into the lake of fire, not rest in the grave.     

 

Which takes us to Revelation 13, as the Antichrist enters the beast stage of his career.    Having come back to life, in conlusion with Satan, the Antichrist will receive addtional power by being possess by the beast spirit ascending out of the bottomless pit.   In former times, that beast was Nimrod, from the tower of Babel days.

 

Possessed by Nimrod, a disembodied spirit, the Antichrist becomes the beast.    And in Nimrod's fashion leads the world in all out rebellion against God.       The false prophet has the image made of the slain Antichrist and come back to life.   And places it in the temple.

 

Which is the signal to the Jews, because the two witnesses will be testifying in Jerusalem all along that the Antichrist is not the true messiah and prophesying to the Jews what is going to happen, the Jews will begin fleeing into the mountians.      Remember the 1335th days?

 

So Jesus returns on day 2520 (the last day of the 7 years).    From that, we can deduce that the aod will be setup on day (2520-1335) 1185 from the day 1, the confirmation of the covenant day.       So, on day 1185, the aod will be setup, which must be after the Antichrist is killed and come back to life -since the aod is an image of the slain and comeback to life Antichrist.       We don't know when the Antichrist will be slain, the exact day, and come back to life.     I think we can assume not many days, because of the decay factor of his body when dead.

 

So after he comes back to life and the image of him made and placed in the temple on day 1185, he as the beast persecutes the Jews as they are desperately trying to flee to the mountains.     The Jews are helped by the two witnesses who engage in war against the Antichrist sending plagues upon his kingdom, which I am pretty sure are the first four trumpets.       For 75 days, the Jews flee Jerusalem, until finally the Antichrist beast overcomes them and they are killed on day 1260.      After they are killed, 3 1/2 days later the two witness ascend to heaven as their enemies watch.   A earthquake takes place and kills 7000 there in Jerusalem.        Then the 7th trumpet sounds, God has had enough.       There is the war in the second heaven, Satan's principality, and Satan and his angels are cast down to earth, as their place in the second heaven (the cosmos) will be found no more.    And which will part away in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, when Jesus returns.  

 

When Satan is cast down, he opportunes during that last time, times, and half times, to incarnate the aod image of the Antichrist beast making it come alive (in appearance) and demands everyone in the world to worship it, unbeknowing that they are worshipping Satan.     I would not say that he incarnates the image full time, but whenever it is on display for the world.    Satan will still be roaming the earth, doing that which he has not much time left for.  

 

At the end of the great tribulaiton, and God's wrath being poured out on the Antichrist beast's  kingdom, in a final effort to get men to turn to Him, God, the end will come at the battle of Armageddon and Jesus return - which is in Ezekiel 39:17-20, the Armageddon feast, followed by Jesus reigning and ruling here on earth in the remaining verses of Ezekiel 39. 

 

Who are the two witnesses ?

 

Hi Izzel, I don't know, except that they are two individuals.

 

 

I will give input later today.

 

One reason why I do not believe in the post-trib theory is: Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind (the 2/3's not killed by the plagues of v.18) STILL did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop (continued on) worshiping demons, and idols....... Nor did they repent of v.21...

 

If one can say they are not of this 2/3's who remain, then they died in the plagues of the 6th Trumpet or they were removed beforehand.  Not a pretty picture continuing to worshiping demons and idols as Scripture says.  And yet many of these die at Armageddon.  Post Tribber's what do you think?  "The Rest of Mankind" continued to worship demons and idols.  Think about it; even those of Israel who are considered "the elect" and the 144,000 from Israel.  Why do you think that Christ needs to rule with a "rod of iron" during the Mill?  Because of demon and idol worship.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

The rule with a rod of iron cannot apply to demon and idol worship. Satan will be bound during this time and will have no influence on Earth.

 

where is satan army of fallen angels ?

 

I will give input later today.

 

One reason why I do not believe in the post-trib theory is: Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind (the 2/3's not killed by the plagues of v.18) STILL did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop (continued on) worshiping demons, and idols....... Nor did they repent of v.21...

 

If one can say they are not of this 2/3's who remain, then they died in the plagues of the 6th Trumpet or they were removed beforehand.  Not a pretty picture continuing to worshiping demons and idols as Scripture says.  And yet many of these die at Armageddon.  Post Tribber's what do you think?  "The Rest of Mankind" continued to worship demons and idols.  Think about it; even those of Israel who are considered "the elect" and the 144,000 from Israel.  Why do you think that Christ needs to rule with a "rod of iron" during the Mill?  Because of demon and idol worship.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

The rule with a rod of iron cannot apply to demon and idol worship. Satan will be bound during this time and will have no influence on Earth.

 

There will be people worshiping idols during the 1000 years 

The elect of God is the church spoken about in matthew and throughout the bible 

 suppose for the moment that it did say: "After the tribulation period, God will send his angels to gather Christians in the sky?" Would you then accept the post-trib' position since the gathering, or rapture, is clearly said to occur after the tribulation?

 the use of the word  "elect" saints in the New Testament always refers to Christians

Romans 8:33, 16:13

 

 

Izzel

 

Yet, the last 3 Trumpet blasts are all Woe's to those who live on the earth  Rev 8:13b -  Woe, Woe, Woe, to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels.  I see a Woe zone ahead.  To the inhabitants of the earth.  Not some, but all the inhabitants.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Are the saints there during this time ?

 

No the believers who went in the rapture are the Saints.They are in heaven.

 

Who are God elect in matt 24 ?

Those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God Romans 8:1.What about explaining the absence of the word "church" in all the biblical passages related to the tribulation.In Revelation 4-21 the word church never appears.

Who are God ancients ?

When does God roar out of Zion ?

Those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God Romans 8:1.What about explaining the absence of the word "church" in all the biblical passages related to the tribulation.In Revelation 4-21 the word church never appears.

 When the bible says we shall experience the wrath of God it means we will not be plagued 

Do earthquake, famine  and storms  happen are they for the righteous or the wicked 

Where are righteous people at this time

 

 

 

 

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (Mt. 24:29-31)

 

Here is a clear statement from our Lord Jesus Christ who said that He will be coming “immediately after the tribulation” and not before, so how can Christians be with Him in Heaven during the Great Tribulation?

Perhaps there are two comings-

1. Rapture first-1 thess 4

2. Second coming-Matt 24:29

 

Or perhaps Matt. 24:29-31 is the rapture (the sign of His coming).

 

Cheers

 

The catching up of the saints and Jesus second coming happens at the same time

 

Great, another post-trib fan.

Your view may not have as many holes as pre-trib, but it still has holes nevertheless. However, I'm not going start explaining my view every time someone new comes along. If you are interested in my view, you can click on this link: and go to post #'s 4, 16, 17, 21, 28, 29, 34, 40 and 44. Then if you see something you disagree with, I'd be happy to discuss it.

Cheers

 

The last trump and the seventh trump are not the same 

 

I am pre-wrath, I have not 'taken sides' and find myself both disappointed and amused at the same time watching the arguments fly about. However, for the following, I would be interested in all povs and interpretations on these verses, respectfully of course, i ask.

 

Dan 12:1-3

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

 

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever

   

 

When I read this, it does not fall into my understandings of the First Resurrection, nor the Second Resurrection based on Rev 20. Perhaps I am missing a few things.

Is this a whole separate Resurrection?

 

Pre-trib - 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first'  perhaps the 'shame and everlasting contempt' is as the outer heaven and gnashing of teeth because one didnt serve as one should/could have? Also, how could this be a secret rapture if people are shining like the stars and firmament?

 

Post-trib - This reads to me that there is a resurrection of sorts at the beginning of the Great tribulation, prior to the last trumpet judgement, thoughts?

 

I have a million other questions/arguments regarding this verse and both POV's, but lets just stick with this description of a Resurrection.

Just trying to gain knowledge and understanding, not cause division, this is a learning opportunity.

Yanno what, maybe we are just All right!

Hi Hindsfeet,

Now you're getting into my specialty.

This is both the first and second resurrections. However, Daniel did not know several things. He did not know these resurrections would be separated by a thousand years. He knew nothing about the millennial reign of Christ or the Church. He did not know Messiah would die for the sins of the world, etc..... But the Jews did believe in the resurrection and prepared the bodies of the dead for the resurrection.

They had no knowledge of the rapture either, for Christ had not yet come, which is why Daniel was told to shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end...in the very next verse. The rest of this truth was beyond his comprehension, so the prophecy was stopped there, to be continued later. So knowledge would increase when the New Testament was written.

It was none other than Christ, Himself that continued Daniels prophecy, beginning at (Matt.24:15). This prophecy was not very helpful to Daniel, but it is very helpful for those who will be living at the time of the end. If you'll look back to Daniel 11:36, that is the abomination of desolation. Thus, the time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation in Dan. 12:1, is known today as the great tribulation (Matt. 24:21).

So it was Christ, Himself that continued Daniel's prophecy, but to understand it completely, we must add them together. Daniel mentions the dead and Christ mentions those who are alive at the time of the end. If you add what Daniel said about the dead rising, to what Christ said about gathering His elect, it equals what Paul said in 1 Thes. 4:16-17

Cheers

 

the last trump is not the seventh trump 

 

Great, another post-trib fan.

Your view may not have as many holes as pre-trib, but it still has holes nevertheless. However, I'm not going start explaining my view every time someone new comes along. If you are interested in my view, you can click on this link: and go to post #'s 4, 16, 17, 21, 28, 29, 34, 40 and 44. Then if you see something you disagree with, I'd be happy to discuss it.

Cheers

 

the wrath of God fell on the Egytians alone and not the israelites thus God will do the same in the future 

Israel were on the earth not raptured away thus spiritual israel will be on the earth during the last palgues 

Izzel

 

Yet, the last 3 Trumpet blasts are all Woe's to those who live on the earth  Rev 8:13b -  Woe, Woe, Woe, to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels.  I see a Woe zone ahead.  To the inhabitants of the earth.  Not some, but all the inhabitants.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Are the saints there during this time ?

 

 

 

Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's not a problem at all. The sun will be dark, the moon will not give it's light and the stars will be falling from heaven. The sun being dark could easily be night time. And we know that it probably will be night time in Israel, because the falling stars will be visible. But the moon is what is really telling here. Have you ever studied the phases of the moon? The dark phase, when it is not seen is what's known as a new moon. This happens a little less than every 30 days, so it should not come as such a shock. It marks the first day of each month on the Hebrew calendar. So this also favors the rapture, not the second coming.

But here is where it gets really interesting. Not only does the new moon phase begin a new month, but this is also the same phase the moon will be in just before Roshashana (feast of trumpets). When the first sliver of the moon is witnessed, then the feast begins. As you know, the rapture will occur at the last trump. And just as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts during His first coming, He will likewise fulfill all of the fall feasts as well, beginning with the feast of trumpets, which usually occurs in the month of September, but sometimes at the end of August. The moon is not always seen on the first day after it goes dark. Sometimes it doesn't appear until the second day after, so no man knows the day or the hour.

Cheers

 

What does the fallling of the stars mean ?

 

Meteor showers.

 

What is wormwood star ?

 

Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's not a problem at all. The sun will be dark, the moon will not give it's light and the stars will be falling from heaven. The sun being dark could easily be night time. And we know that it probably will be night time in Israel, because the falling stars will be visible. But the moon is what is really telling here. Have you ever studied the phases of the moon? The dark phase, when it is not seen is what's known as a new moon. This happens a little less than every 30 days, so it should not come as such a shock. It marks the first day of each month on the Hebrew calendar.

But here is where it gets really interesting. Not only does the new moon phase begin a new month, but this is also the same phase the moon will be in just before Roshashana (feast of trumpets). When the first sliver of the moon is witnessed, then the feast begins. As you know, the rapture will occur at the last trump. And just as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts during His first coming, He will likewise fulfill all of the fall feasts as well, beginning with the feast of trumpets, which usually occurs in the month of September, but sometimes at the end of August. The moon is not always seen on the first day after it goes dark. Sometimes it doesn't appear until the second day after, so no man knows the day or the hour. So this also favors the rapture, not the second coming.

Cheers

 

please  explain what time is this 

 

Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's not a problem at all. The sun will be dark, the moon will not give it's light and the stars will be falling from heaven. The sun being dark could easily be night time. And we know that it probably will be night time in Israel, because the falling stars will be visible. But the moon is what is really telling here. Have you ever studied the phases of the moon? The dark phase, when it is not seen is what's known as a new moon. This happens a little less than every 30 days, so it should not come as such a shock. It marks the first day of each month on the Hebrew calendar. So this also favors the rapture, not the second coming.

But here is where it gets really interesting. Not only does the new moon phase begin a new month, but this is also the same phase the moon will be in just before Roshashana (feast of trumpets). When the first sliver of the moon is witnessed, then the feast begins. As you know, the rapture will occur at the last trump. And just as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts during His first coming, He will likewise fulfill all of the fall feasts as well, beginning with the feast of trumpets, which usually occurs in the month of September, but sometimes at the end of August. The moon is not always seen on the first day after it goes dark. Sometimes it doesn't appear until the second day after, so no man knows the day or the hour.

Cheers

 

What does the fallling of the stars mean ?

I will give input later today.

 

One reason why I do not believe in the post-trib theory is: Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind (the 2/3's not killed by the plagues of v.18) STILL did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop (continued on) worshiping demons, and idols....... Nor did they repent of v.21...

 

If one can say they are not of this 2/3's who remain, then they died in the plagues of the 6th Trumpet or they were removed beforehand.  Not a pretty picture continuing to worshiping demons and idols as Scripture says.  And yet many of these die at Armageddon.  Post Tribber's what do you think?  "The Rest of Mankind" continued to worship demons and idols.  Think about it; even those of Israel who are considered "the elect" and the 144,000 from Israel.  Why do you think that Christ needs to rule with a "rod of iron" during the Mill?  Because of demon and idol worship.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

2/3 Mankind there refers to the wicked  would you agree because the elect are on earth ?

The elect cannot be included in this   

THE 1260 DAYS OF DANIEL 7 

The number 1260 is not just a rough figure because it is mentioned seven

times in the Bible in various different ways:

        Daniel 7:25            "a time, times and half a time"

        Daniel 12:7            "a time, times and half a time"

        Revelation 11:2        "42 months"

        Revelation 11:3        "1260 days"

        Revelation 11:11        3½ years

        Revelation 12:6        "1260 days"

        Revelation 12:14       "a time, times and half a time"

        Revelation 13:5        "forty-two months"

It can be shown that all these texts are referring to the same period of

time:

        A time is one year             =  360 days

        Times are two years            =  720 days

        Half a time is half a year     =  180 days

        -----------------------------------------

        Therefore the total            = 1260 days

A month in prophecy is equal to 30 days, therefore forty-two months is

equal to 42 x 30 = 1260 days.

So we can see that these seven texts are talking about the same period of

time, but what does it mean?

First of all, the prophecy is not referring to literal days. In prophecy a

day is sometimes used to represent a year, and that seems to be the case

here. (See Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6) So the prophecy is talking about

a period of 1260 years.

If we now go back to Daniel 7:25 we can see that it is the power of the

Little Horn which will control the "saints" for this period of time. We

have already suggested that the Little Horn represents "Papal Rome" so does

our figure of 1260 years fit in with the records of history?

Papal Rome defeated the last of its major enemies (the Ostrogoths) in the

year 538 A.D. when Emperor Justinian's decree came into effect. Throughout

the Dark Ages the Catholic church was the most powerful political force in

the whole world, and it used its power for political and financial gain as

well as for religious purposes. Many millions were persecuted and put to

death - "oppressing the saints of the Most High" as Daniel puts it.

However the power of the Papal Church came to an end when the armed forces

of Napoleon, under general Berthier marched into Rome and took the Pope

captive. This happened in the year 1798 A.D. surprisingly (or perhaps not

so surprisingly) exactly 1260 years after the Papacy came to power in 538

A.D.

 

According to Ezekiel 39 when Israel enters a period of peace and safety this will be a SINFUL period:

“Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid.

The time of true blessing for Israel only occurs at the great earthquake which occurs at the second coming. Even Joel confirms Israel only repents on the day of the Lord:

For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; Who can endure it? “Now, therefore,” says the Lord, “Turn to Me with all your heart, With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning.

I find your references to Isaiah 66 and the parable of the fig tree very unconvincing as references to modern Israel; if read in context. However the two verses I quoted above are very definite references to future Israel before the second coming.

 

 

The blessing comes upon Israel, at Jesus's return, as they will be welcoming him as "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord".   We can fortify that from Daniel 12.

 

In Daniel 12,  

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

From that we can deduce, that the abomination of desolaton will be set up to be worshipped, 1335 days before the actual day that Jesus returns, to save the Jews trapped in Jerusalem in Zechariah 14.     The aod is the image that the false prophet has made of the slain and come back to life Antichrist.     Which in Isaiah 14, he will be brought back to life, after in Ezekiel 28:1-10 God has him killed for going into the temple and claiming to be God.    This is sort of working backwards, as I am explaining it.

 

Before going into the temple to claim to be God, he will have been ruling for about 3 years, 4 months as the illicit king of Israel.    

 

please bear with me,

 

Jesus was rejected by the Jews and Jerusalem as "the" messiah which is the promised great King of Israel, son of David, anointed.

Jesus was received after the resurrection as Savior from our sins, by first the disciples and then the gentiles. Which since then, by tradition, in Christianity, Christians have equated Savior from our sins as being the messiah. But that is not actually what "the" messiah means.

In Zechariah 9:9

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Being the King is that Jesus was the one God sent them to be the King of Israel, son of David, anointed.   He has been rejected as that King and crucified.    And it has not been fulfilled that he is occupying that Kingship, as Jerusalem has never since been willing to say to  Jesus,  welcome as that king, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

Christians understand "having salvation" is that Jesus was the one who would save us from our sins. Jews, on the other hand, as I have discussed this many times with them, "having salvation" means saved from physical destruction from one's enemies.

Which the Antichrist when he comes will have appeared to them to have fulfilled that requirement because to them he will have intended to stave off the Gog/Magog invasion. And for that they will believe he is their long awaited King of Israel, son of David anointed. He will actually be anointed in the special process that kings had been anointed with the special oil - but he will be an illicit King, someone that God did not send to be their King. He will fancy himself to be in that role, coming in his own name. But he will not be the one God sent to be their King.

 

So right after Gog/Magog, which takes place while Israel is still in a state of sin as you have noted, the little horn coming from Europe, with his EU army,  arriving a day late and a dollar short, to Israel.    Nonetheless, the Jews will perceive that he is their long awaited messiah, the person to fulfill the King of Israel, son of David.      In Daniel 9, the bible code names him the prince who shall come.     The little horn Antichrist, full of ego, perceives himself to be in that role, and commences to act that way.     On the temple mount, he will have the ceremony conducted of the law that Moses set forth for all generations at the end of every seven years, to commemorade his instructions to go in and possess the promised land.   It is in Deuteronomy 31:10-11.    Thus, he confirms the covenant (Mt. Sinai covenant) "for" seven years.

 

In the middle part of the seven years, the Antichrist illicit King of Israel, because he has been long time delving into the occult, understanding dark sentences as it says in Daniel 8, and getting help from what are fallen angels, demons, and Satan, will have reached a point where Satan will have convinced him that he has achieved God-hood.    God in the flesh.      That is when Satan enters him to go into the temple and carry out the act of 2Thessalonians 2.     The revealed man of sin, son of perdition.     Which I noted before, God has him killed in Ezekiel 28:1-10 for that act.

 

Immediately, the Jews will impeach him as their King.    And he will turn on them to destroy his land and his people.     As it says in Isaiah 14:19-20.  

 

¹⁹ But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

²⁰ Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

 

So God Himself will bring the Antichrist man of sin, son of perdition, back to life as the strong delusion that God will send, to them who believed the Antichrist's great lie that he is God in the flesh.      The Antichrist is going to be cast alive directly into the lake of fire, not rest in the grave.     

 

Which takes us to Revelation 13, as the Antichrist enters the beast stage of his career.    Having come back to life, in conlusion with Satan, the Antichrist will receive addtional power by being possess by the beast spirit ascending out of the bottomless pit.   In former times, that beast was Nimrod, from the tower of Babel days.

 

Possessed by Nimrod, a disembodied spirit, the Antichrist becomes the beast.    And in Nimrod's fashion leads the world in all out rebellion against God.       The false prophet has the image made of the slain Antichrist and come back to life.   And places it in the temple.

 

Which is the signal to the Jews, because the two witnesses will be testifying in Jerusalem all along that the Antichrist is not the true messiah and prophesying to the Jews what is going to happen, the Jews will begin fleeing into the mountians.      Remember the 1335th days?

 

So Jesus returns on day 2520 (the last day of the 7 years).    From that, we can deduce that the aod will be setup on day (2520-1335) 1185 from the day 1, the confirmation of the covenant day.       So, on day 1185, the aod will be setup, which must be after the Antichrist is killed and come back to life -since the aod is an image of the slain and comeback to life Antichrist.       We don't know when the Antichrist will be slain, the exact day, and come back to life.     I think we can assume not many days, because of the decay factor of his body when dead.

 

So after he comes back to life and the image of him made and placed in the temple on day 1185, he as the beast persecutes the Jews as they are desperately trying to flee to the mountains.     The Jews are helped by the two witnesses who engage in war against the Antichrist sending plagues upon his kingdom, which I am pretty sure are the first four trumpets.       For 75 days, the Jews flee Jerusalem, until finally the Antichrist beast overcomes them and they are killed on day 1260.      After they are killed, 3 1/2 days later the two witness ascend to heaven as their enemies watch.   A earthquake takes place and kills 7000 there in Jerusalem.        Then the 7th trumpet sounds, God has had enough.       There is the war in the second heaven, Satan's principality, and Satan and his angels are cast down to earth, as their place in the second heaven (the cosmos) will be found no more.    And which will part away in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, when Jesus returns.  

 

When Satan is cast down, he opportunes during that last time, times, and half times, to incarnate the aod image of the Antichrist beast making it come alive (in appearance) and demands everyone in the world to worship it, unbeknowing that they are worshipping Satan.     I would not say that he incarnates the image full time, but whenever it is on display for the world.    Satan will still be roaming the earth, doing that which he has not much time left for.  

 

At the end of the great tribulaiton, and God's wrath being poured out on the Antichrist beast's  kingdom, in a final effort to get men to turn to Him, God, the end will come at the battle of Armageddon and Jesus return - which is in Ezekiel 39:17-20, the Armageddon feast, followed by Jesus reigning and ruling here on earth in the remaining verses of Ezekiel 39. 

 

Who are the two witnesses ?

 

 

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (Mt. 24:29-31)

 

Here is a clear statement from our Lord Jesus Christ who said that He will be coming “immediately after the tribulation” and not before, so how can Christians be with Him in Heaven during the Great Tribulation?

Perhaps there are two comings-

1. Rapture first-1 thess 4

2. Second coming-Matt 24:29

 

Or perhaps Matt. 24:29-31 is the rapture (the sign of His coming).

 

Cheers

 

The catching up of the saints and Jesus second coming happens at the same time  

 

for the end times prophecies of both the old testament and new testament to take place there are two things that absolutely must be in place.

1. Israel is a nation again.

2. Jerusalem in the hands of the Jews.

Isaiah 66:7-8 was fulfilled when Israel became a nation in 1948. Thus, prophecies in the old testament like Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38/39 can now take place.

The parable of the fig tree, based on what Jesus cursed the fig tree as he and the disciples were going into Jerusalem, that the fig tree is Jerusalem. Which Jerusalem came back into the hands of the Jews in 1967. Thus, prophecies in the old testament like all nations coming up against Jerusalem in Zechariah 14 can now take place.

Once a person gets those two things straight and not confused with each other, then a person is well on his/her way to understanding the end times prophecies.

The third element to understanding the end time prophecies is to grasp that the Antichrist will be the illicit perceived King of Israel, son of David messiah embraced by the Jews for a short time. The prophecies in the old and new testament pertaining to him pertain to his rise to becoming that illicit King, then fall from it to become the beast in Revelation.

If a person can grasp all three elements: Israel a nation again, Jerusalem the parable of the fig tree, the Antichrist illicit messiah to Israel - then I don't know what the right words are, but you are going to really understand the bible a lot better.

According to Ezekiel 39 when Israel enters a period of peace and safety this will be a SINFUL period:

“Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid.

The time of true blessing for Israel only occurs at the great earthquake which occurs at the second coming. Even Joel confirms Israel only repents on the day of the Lord:

For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; Who can endure it? “Now, therefore,” says the Lord, “Turn to Me with all your heart, With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning.

I find your references to Isaiah 66 and the parable of the fig tree very unconvincing as references to modern Israel; if read in context. However the two verses I quoted above are very definite references to future Israel before the second coming.

 

Isaiah 66 :7-8 was fullfilled in 1948

looking forward for Ezikiel 38 and 39 to fullfilled 

 

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (Mt. 24:29-31)

 

Here is a clear statement from our Lord Jesus Christ who said that He will be coming “immediately after the tribulation” and not before, so how can Christians be with Him in Heaven during the Great Tribulation?

Perhaps there are two comings-

1. Rapture first-1 thess 4

2. Second coming-Matt 24:29

 

perhaps there is is one second coming 

Those that  with that adhere to  the  Secret Rapture doctrine describes  it as The Great Escape from the Great Tribulation at the End of This Age. It is a very comforting doctrine and  many hold on to it. Many believe that Jesus will secretly come and 'Rapture' His Church out of the Earth and take them back with Him to Heaven, either before the Tribulation (Pre-Tribulation Rapture), or half way through the Tribulation, the final three and a half years (Mid-Tribulation Rapture).

They believe that they will escape all the evils and horrors of the Tribulation, the Anti-Christ mark of the beast system, the plagues of God, the time of war and destruction on the Earth. In Heaven they enjoy the marriage supper of the Lamb with Jesus while those left on the Earth, who are saved during the Tribulation have to endure all the trials and suffering to the very end of the Tribulation.

After the Tribulation Jesus then comes back with His Saints, resurrects the remnant of His Church and they all reign with Him on the Earth   or in heaven This is still to be debated  for a thousand years. The fact is, that those who hold on to this belief will not be ready for what is to come upon them. They will not be ready because they have believed in a lie. The Beast system is unfolding before our very eyes and we are still hear! We have not been Raptured!

Thus they will take the mark of the beast and not know it 

 

Does America have a role in the last days ?

 

To say that the US was founded by an occult group is fairly straightforward, look at the satanic pentagram that points right to the White House.  http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/chapter3/

 

When Daniel 9 says

 

 

²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

²⁵ Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

²⁶ And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

The "weeks" here is Shabuwa which means a bunch of different things, but here we are concerned with the definition of  '7'.  From July 4, 1776 to July 4, 2021 is 245 years, the "middle of the '7'/ middle of the 70 '7's (490/2 =245). 

 

When you add 1260 days to dusk January 20th of an inauguration year you will get dusk July 3rd/ day of July 4th "Independence day" (Rev 13's "Satan gave him authority to continue for 1260 days).

 

When you add 150 days (of Trumpet 5) to the 69th Shavuot from the creation of Israel (dusk June 11, 2016), you will get "Apollyon" on Nov. 8th, 2016, election day.  The next President is the "antichrist", the 7th head of 7 headed dragon.  Dusk 1-20-17 through dusk 7-3-20/ day of 7- 4-20.  The year between 7-4-20 and the 245th anniversary, 7-4-21 (breaking the covenant in the middle of the '7', the 70 '7's, 245 years) seems to be part of the "Day/ Year of the Lord's recompense".  Or maybe the deferred year mentioned in Luke 13:7-9.

 

The 69th Shavuot from the creation of Israel to the 70th is 6-11-16 through 5-31-17.  This 70th Shavuot is also the 483rd Shavuot (the 69th '7' of a larger cycle, 483 Shavuots/ Pentecosts) from the call to restore Jerusalem which occured in 1535 ad by Suleiman 1.  So, in the larger cycle, the last 7 years goes from 2017 through 2024, but those "days are shortened for the elects sake".

 

      What feast days do you celebrate ?