Serving

On 8/24/2020 at 9:23 PM, Last Daze said:

One thing that it clarifies for me is that there are seven plagues.  I'd noticed the correlation between the trumpets and bowls but Rev 15 tied it together for me.  There are seven plagues, each begins with a trumpet and ends with a bowl.  The trumpets and bowls are bookends of the seven plagues.

The temple being opened and closed indicates that during the plagues there is a period where repentance is possible (opened) but when the bowls are poured out, the door is shut and decisions are final.  The plagues are judgments on those who engage in the idolatry of worshiping the man of sin.  Once all who are going to repent have done so, the temple of God closes and the wrath of God falls.

Hi LD,

Here's a hint to where I'm heading with this ..

The Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony.

A Testimony does not come into effect until the testator is dead, or, a process has ended whereby any saint still alive by "cut off time" are likewise accepted and their prayers likewise entered into the Temple (those of us still alive at His coming)".

Therefore this is very telling : Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

All saints .. the total .. the sum .. ALL saints who ever lived.

Thus, what is really being signified by this acceptance of prayers INTO this Temple of the Testimony?

A testimony speaks of finality.  

Seeing that a set moment in time is set aside for the acceptance of ALL saints' prayers into this temple of the Testimony .. and not before .. then that can only mean one thing when weighed against this :

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, til the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Meaning .. the actual and literal entering in of this Temple .. is a one time event also.

It's like an allegory , the "working parts" (saints) that make up this Temple are being officially assigned their places within this Temple during the receiving of their prayers/testimony .. like an "order sheet" .. and that Temple is closed until the "working parts" (saints) are  received !! 

Meaning .. ALL parts (saints) that make up this Temple are going to be received at ONCE and not before .. just as their prayers (testimonies) were likewise accepted during one single event.

Meaning, no pre or mid trib rapture possible.

Meaning, ALL saints will be changed at the same time and take their places within that Temple at the same time likewise.

This is a basic explanation, but go over all the verses again with this in mind and it will become clear and you yourself can philosophise all the intricacies to any rebuttal that may attempt to refute any particular points therein. 

When understood, this understanding utterly destroys pre trib rapture and mid point rapture theories without exception. 

Did anybody notice these :

Rev 15:5 And after that i looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angels hand.

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, til the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

It is a message "hidden" within the trump/vial explanation.

So ..

Does anybody understand what is being declared and what subject this affirmation clarifies and what subject this affirmation debunks?

Ponder on it if you don't. 

Here's something I put together to help visualise the trumps & vials being given to the 7 angels.

I posted it once before a while back now, but thought some might like to see it if they haven't already.

This helps puts it into perspective, melding the two relevant chapters together, Rev chapters 8 & 15  ..

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Rev 15:5 And after that i looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Rev 8:2 And i saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angels hand.

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, til the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

On 8/13/2020 at 1:28 AM, Markesmith said:

There’s more than one kind of man seed, the gospel is a seed, 

question?

Gen3[15] And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

who is the woman?

 

The woman is Spiritual Zion.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Is the image of the beast singular?

Do the people of the world assemble to make one giant image of the beast?

Consider these excerpts from Isaiah 2:

"This is the message that was revealed to Isaiah son of Amoz concerning Judah and Jerusalem:

In the last days the mountain of the house of the LORD will be established as the chief of the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.

Go into the rocks and hide in the dust from the terror of the LORD and the splendor of His majesty.

The proud look of man will be humbled, and the loftiness of men brought low; the LORD alone will be exalted in that day.

For the Day of the LORD of Hosts will come against all the proud and lofty, against all that is exalted—it will be humbled...

The LORD alone will be exalted in that day, and the idols will vanish completely. Men will flee to caves in the rocks and holes in the ground, away from the terror of the LORD and from the splendor of His majesty,

when He rises to shake the earth.

In that day men will cast away to the moles and bats their idols of silver and gold— the idols they made to worship. 

They will flee to caverns in the rocks and crevices in the cliffs, away from the terror of the LORD and from the splendor of His majesty, when He rises to shake the earth.

There is no doubt this is the Day of the Lord we have all been waiting for, the day when He comes for us and destroys His enemies.

At that time when the Lord returns in fury and vengeance the people are so afraid they hide in the rocks just as in Rev 6. 

Here in Isaiah 2 they also, "cast away to the moles and bats their idols of silver and gold— the idols they made to worship"

One has to wonder what idols they made to worship, and whose image does the idol depict, and who are they worshiping just prior to the Lord of Hosts appearing in the splendor of majesty and rising to shake the earth?

 

Do you know that a mobile phone can also be classified as an idol ? percentage wise that is.

Take away a teenagers mobile, or somebody who is pro social media, take it away from them and watch them turn into a pile of uselessness in no time.

This is because they have elevated that object to a high place in their hearts, an object of great importance to them .. in places where God ought to be .. this is how man made objects of many types become "idols of the heart" but not an idol in the traditional sense of the word.

Think about those types who live and breathe sports and are fanatical about "their team" and knows every player, all the team history, all the sports data etc etc etc who feverishly collects all the memorabilia and so forth, but cares nothing nor knows nothing about God .. well that sport then becomes the idol of his heart where God should be, and the memorabilia becomes the physical idols.

I think Isaiah is using the word idol in a much broader sense rather than the traditional meaning of the idols of antiquity .. not saying that he doesn't also mean traditional idols either because we all know that many cultures still use them today, but i think he means the most important objects that men/women hold dear to their hearts .. again, held in places in their hearts where God should be, being place #1 and not #5 or what have you.

It's an interesting concept, I'm very well acquainted with the verses and Isaiah in general, but not the concept you bring up.

Though I don't agree with the link you are making, I will philosophise over it for a bit and see how it "tastes" .. only a fool dismisses without weighing up right?

It is an interesting concept though  .. 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

"Well, when reading about the Abomination of Desolation, that is what happened to me.

And that voice in my head told me this, "This is the image of the beast"

And it just seemed so logical, so obvious, and I thought to myself, "How did I not see this before" ?"

And what I'm saying is there is evidence that the A of D may indeed be an image set up in the Temple (or it could be just the presences of a person in the wrong place) but there is also evidence the image of the beast are personal icons as Isaiah 2 tells us. 

Ah, i see .. 

Just to recap,

Seeing that I see the image of the beast as some sort of global agreement or constitution framed by the inhabitants of the world and enforced by the false prophet, whatever is physically set up will either contain the image, be the image (some sort of AI containing the laws) or merely representing the image already laid out by the inhabitants of the earth .. along those lines anyway.

I don't see the peoples throwing out their "idols" as being connected to the image of the beast though.

Touch on that later though.

On 7/23/2020 at 6:55 PM, Diaste said:

I have heard some things over the years about this image of the beast. I assume that an image of some type is probably placed in the Temple since Jesus said, "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand, )" Am I supposed to understand what Daniel says about it or the meaning of 'standing where it ought not"? Both probably. That there is some kind of thing in a place where it shouldn't be seems pretty clear even if what it is remains unsolved. Maybe it's a statue, that's popular. Maybe it's any other person but a priest in the place where the person should not be and that's the abomination and this same person is the cause of ongoing desolations. There is some evidence this is valid, or could be.

I have contemplated the idea about whether this image in Rev 13 is a single great image or, as was suggested many years ago, the images are individually made by everyone or at least most people. 

I think there is a better case for personal icons. 

"Because of the signs it was given to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived those who dwell on the earth, telling them to make an image to the beast that had been wounded by the sword and yet had lived. The second beast was permitted to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship it to be killed. And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,…" Rev 13

In the above the mark is required for each individual. It's not a single giant mark built by the billions strong collective that mankind flocks to and stands under, or some such. I think here the image parallels the mark the mark in that it's a personal possession. The image can speak and cause death for refusal to bow before it. If it's a single image at some location in Israel that's going to be a huge logistical problem. Even if by the time of the image there were only a billion people on earth it seems the time frame would not allow for all of them to appear before a single image to worship it.

"In that day men will cast away to the moles and bats their idols of silver and gold—the idols they made to worship. They will flee to caverns in the rocks and crevices in the cliffs, away from the terror of the LORD and from the splendor of His majesty, when He rises to shake the earth." - Isaiah 2

Isaiah 2 is very interesting end of the age commentary. If you haven't looked at this chapter you should, it's amazing. The above explains it pretty well, "men will cast away to the moles and bats their idols of silver and gold—the idols they made to worship" These are idols each person has made for themselves at the time prior to the day of the Lord. When the Lord appears those idols are thrown into holes in the ground and caves. That is not going to happen to a single image as it can only be thrown away once. Isaiah is saying many idols are cast away. Then just like in Revelation 6, "They will flee to caverns in the rocks and crevices in the cliffs, away from the terror of the LORD and from the splendor of His majesty, when He rises to shake the earth."

This is the KJV:

And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made [each one] for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;

To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

The idea throughout the usage of this word 'asah', is to 'make with your own hands something for yourself'. 

"Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”" - Rev 6

While it's not word for word what we see in Isaiah 2 that it's the same timing and cause and effect is undisputed, or it should be. 

So it's definitely an abomination existing where it shouldn't causing desolation but it's not the same as the idols and images each person makes for themselves which the FP causes to speak and kill.

For instance; How would a single image in a location in Israel know that I would not worship it, then speak and cause me to die when I'm half a world away? 

Telepathy? Facebook post? Email? Chips and WiFi? Yes, there is some sarcasm...

Since I'm fully convinced the end of the age, and all the events of the end of the age, are brought about by vast knowledge and equally vast spiritual power I don't know if I can be convinced technology plays more than a bit part, if any part. But I'm open if it makes sense.

It's like the plagues of Egypt. None of that was 21st century technology. The flood was raw unchecked spiritual power. Sodom was destroyed by the same fierce power in an orgy of wrath. I think the spiritual powers that be don't experience even the slightest amusement at the 'progress' of mankind.

You must have misunderstood me.

I never said that the mark of the beast is the image itself, but the mark itself is given after one accepts the image of the beast.

This is why is said "I might have cracked part of the mystery of the A of D".

As for the idols, unless we are all forced to take pottery classes, I don't believe people will be urged to make personal idols, more likely personal technologies being cast away. But this is a sub class of this subject I don't really care to give examples of because we can all easily theorise on that concept without me writing out a huge list of possibilities .. right? 

I will give one example though .. like see what happens when you take a young persons mobile phone away .. they turn into a ball of uselessness .. that is because they have made their phones their idols .. they have made it more important to themselves in their hearts than the Lord Himself, that is, it has taken the place in their hearts where the Lord should be .. that is, idols of the heart.

Because we musn't forget that the false prophet will regard NO GOD .. so I doubt he would promote personal idols in the old world sense, but he does promote "craft", that is, technology .. and that technology grows and prospers under his direction, and secondly, the false prophet doesn't begin demanding he himself is worshipped until nearing the end of his reign, meaning, that the mark of the beast/image etc is already released before that occurs dispelling any theory saying that the image represents the false prophet himself directly.

However, after years of contemplation, I believe the image of the beast itself will be some global constitution that the world agrees upon .. 

And all one needs to do to represent that constitution is make a simple .. say .. "relief" that represents the image.

Look at the podium where the president speaks, it contains the seal of the United States of America .. the podium itself has no power, but represents the power .. a tiny example easily built upon .. something representing that power is placed that causes desolation .. again, whatever is placed is likely just a representation of that which has the actual power .. "that" being the constitution. 

Probably haven't explained that all that well, but it should suffice, hopefully.

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes. And that successor is the Diadochi. The direct successor that ruled the same people and area and is a matter of well established history. The little horn arises from the Diadochi.

If Daniel 11 follows the Seleucid line, and it does, right to the willful king, then we need look no further. 

 

Yes but they were inheritors of the kingdom.

They did not conquer Grecia, they were given one part each of 4 by their king.

Then they went about their in-fighting.

Didn't Media Persia also have a similar internal conflict too?

Yes they did. But that didn't make the silver kingdom become the brass kingdom, though they clashed whereby Persia ascended as top dog amongst themselves, they still remained the silver kingdom.  

This is all internal affairs taking place amongst "Grecian" players jostling against themselves.

It is the outsider who usurps their overall kingdom that counts .. the next kingdom taking it's place within the statue of Daniel.

And it was Rome who conquered Grecia and took her place as top dog.

Iron is not the same as brass, and brass cannot become iron .. 

You are concentrating on the brass fighting the brass, in the end, no matter who comes out on top .. it will still be brass conquering/fighting brass.

But the legs are iron .. not brass.

Yes the little horn comes out of the brass, but the little horn is in our times soon to come.

And the remains of those brass pieces also became part of the Roman Empire, thus the information you are providing fits nicely with what I am saying, it does not contradict .. 

Thus the information you are focusing on tells us that Greece will most likely be one of the 10 toes, for she also came out of the Iron Empire after her being absorbed into it.

On 7/9/2020 at 12:53 AM, douggg said:

Have you considered that in Matthew 24:15-16, Jesus told them in Judea to flee to the mountains?

 

Please consider my narrative, which includes the consequences of the Abomination of Desolation being setup - for them in Judea to flee....

 

Israel for most of the 1260 days will think that the person is the messiah, but is the Antichrist. Near the end of the 1260 days, he betrays Israel, and will become the beast. The image of him made and placed on the temple mount grounds. The signal for the Jews to begin fleeing into the wilderness.

The beast kills the two witnesses as they are fleeing. The 7th angel sounds his trumpet shorty after, and the war in the second heaven ensues, with Satan and his angels cast down to earth. The Jews realize their mistake with Jesus, and turn to him, verse 10. Revelation 12:10.

The Jews continue fleeing into the wilderness for the remaining time, times, half time trying to escape the persecution coming when Satan incarnates the great statue image on the temple mount grounds which Jews are rounded up by the false prophet and forced to bow or be beheaded (so horrible I hate to even write about it). The beast walking in and out of the sanctuary building to oversee it.

The beast and the false prophet are both going to be thrown alive into the lake of fire by Jesus when He returns, to take vengeance on behalf of the martyred great tribulation saints and His own vengeance as well.
 

 

 

Hi Dougg, thanks for your reply, will get back to you soon.

On 7/8/2020 at 2:37 AM, Diaste said:

Sure. Ishmael is as old as  Isaac. It's positive a people were there well before the 7th century. 

The dynamic extant and the concern is no matter the origins we have a group of people who believe a thing and are extraordinary committed to that belief. 

That the USA didn't exist before the 18th century doesn't negate the reality of the now. This goes for Islam. They are what they are today and the history of what we see today in Islam is undeniable, no matter what label or banner.

Diaste, here's what I've realised after revisiting this subject with you and rethinking it over again .. here's where I think  your doctrine stands ..

First, we have to be mindful that Gods use of "kings" & "kingdoms" as many prophetic examples throughout the OT will reflect, are interchangeable.

Second, there are two prophetic themes Daniel is prophesying within the verses we have touched on.

Third, the two prophetic themes have been "mishandled" and merged into one "all encompassing" but erroneous theme.

Fourth, one prophetic theme focuses on a bloodline, the other theme on the kingdoms .. 

Fifth,  your doctrine forces the two into one.

Finally, we need to undo this error and restore them into two prophetic separate themes once more.

Last say, 

As I pointed out before, every kingdom on the Daniel image were successors to the one before, this is the prophetic theme of kingdoms.

Thus the only candidate applicable for the title of successor , must meet this criteria God already laid out for us within the chapters of Daniel.

And history stands witness that the successor to the kingdom of Grecia was the one who defeated her and took her place as top dog .. exactly how the previous kingdoms on Daniels statue took their places on the world stage before "her". 

And only one successor, keeping in line with the already laid out theme revealed in Daniel, can be called the Iron Kingdom :

THIS IS HER, the Iron Kingdom :

"Rome continued its conquest of Greece. The Greeks were finally defeated at the Battle of Corinth in 146 BC. Rome completely destroyed and plundered the city of Corinth as an example to other Greek cities. From this point on Greece was ruled by Rome."

Nobody else but the successor of Grecia can be named the Iron Kingdom, Rome is the only one who took Grecia's place as successor, just as the kingdoms before her did too .. anything else is error and departs from the already laid out theme that God provided.  

But all is not lost, your line of enquiry is actually still meaningful .. the heritage of the "little horn", the bloodline, that line of enquiry .. but it is not the same line as the kingdom theme, there is a difference.

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I may do that if I remember. I always open to new information even if it doesn't change my mind. 

Just as a disclaimer it may not make a difference what they labeled themselves. There were several factions of that faith the last being the Ottomans whose Caliphate ended in the 1920's. Islam is a faith. Muslims are a people. Unless there is a solid refutation Islam and Muslims trace their faith back to the Koran with origins sometime in the mid 7th century AD.

I sincerely hope you do have a look at it. Now it is about the validity of the Quaran, but it does touch on what we are talking about. But what is coming out now (since 2014 but known about since the 1920's) basically reveals that the said Empire was centred in PETRA .. that Arab Empire which was not Islamic but was pagan, meaning, the Empire was already there before the idea of Islam even emerged on the world stage, so it was a pre-Islamic Empire .. and that with the evidence backed by early Byzantine trade route maps, shows that Mecca wasn't even part of the early trade routes, and even worse, wasn't even on their maps .. it is looking more and more that the whole history of the so called Islamic Empire is actually a fiction and that the Empire was nothing more than a pagan Arab Empire who over the course of several centuries created a false history, several centuries after the fact mind you .. only then (centuries later) calling it an Islamic Empire simply because the Arabs were very mindful that only the Jews & the Christians had a credible prophetic line .. and the early king recognised that the Arabs needed their OWN prophetic line .. basically .. Islam was a purposeful creation/fiction that took centuries to write/edit/alter etc. 

Whether you consider this a problem or not to your stance, well, only you can answer that.

Now i've picked a terrible time to come back to worthy .. next week I start an intense 3 month cert III course so I might be away for that time except for some brief look ins .. that's why I haven't been as committed to debating as I usually would, I've got too many distractions at the moment and am clearly not focused enough to engage in long debates. I will be back, but as from now, probably won't be on worthy so much until my course is finally over.

Leave it with you.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

Diaste, I don't blame you for putting this forth as evidence, not one bit .. but there is a problem you obviously aren't aware of dealing with the above "historic account".

All the latest evidence trickling out actually paints a very different story to the one above .. and the truth about this so called "Islamic empire" is what I touched upon in my response to you .. it wasn't Islamic at all.

We have been fed a false narrative about the realities regarding the above conquests, but historians are afraid to let the cat out of the bag in fear of the Islamic response.

Tell you what, go on to you tube and type in this for starters : Examining the Newest Historical Research on Islam and the Earliest Quranic Manuscripts - Jay Smith

It is truly eye opening .. again, the above is really a combined conquest of peoples taking advantage of the times who never once called themselves muslims/Islamics .. not once, not ever.

This post is my response to the "latest" prophetic re-interpretation/revision doing the rounds .. that Gog & Magog prophecy is split into two parts. One part pre-millennial, one part post-millennial.

And in my opinion, the only credible argument for this reinterpretation of Gog/Magog are the similarities in the way God responds at the conclusion of both world "ending" events .. that being, earthquakes, hail, fire & brimstone etc.

And i only say credible because, really, those who don't really know how to interpret complex scriptures/themes for themselves, well, they are easily swayed to team "two wars" primarily because of those aforementioned similarities and honestly .. that's all team "two wars" really have when one seriously examines Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39 .. similarities in the method God uses to bring about mankind's fall, which, when really thought about, wouldn't those similarities merely reflect the consistency/efficiency of the One bringing about mankind's fall through a tried and tested method?

Don't forget this, God only does this thing twice, you know, those world ending similarities, so wouldn't one expect the "end of world" methods to share similarities, or even flat out be the same? .. since He promised not to flood the world anymore, well, there's only so many ways to "naturally" bring about the downfall of planet Earth .. that is, earthquakes, hail, fire & brimstone etc.  You don't really have many other methods to use besides earthquakes, hail, fire & brimstone etc besides one or two exceptions whereby God actually uses undeniably supernatural methods like the red sea crossing for example .. but God using supernatural methods like that are extremely rare, indeed, He still used "natural elements" within that story anyway to bring about Pharaoh's destruction in the sea .. He used wind & water .. "natural" methods as it were brought about through supernatural means.

Thus the similarities to me are absolutely nothing to marvel at, in fact, i'd be surprised if there were no similarities .. now that would shock me.

Now i'm not saying that if you accept this revisionist doctrine that you can't interpret complex scriptures, we all go thorough stages of reexamining and either keeping or changing or even replacing our interpretations, I'm just talking about what gives these new doctrines "legs" to spread around and bolster the doctrine into mainstream view/acceptance, and that is the foot soldiers, the bulk of the adherents .. those who don't really know how to interpret complex scriptures for and by themselves but instead follow those who "do so" more than themselves !!

THAT is the problem, THEY are the wings beneath these new revisionist interpretations.

So that being said, i'd like to go through Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39 with commentary and thoughts and see if this revisionist interpretation has any credibility within those said chapters .. because if there is indeed a duality to this Gog/Magog prophecy, then therein is where we'll find it because it's definitely not in Revelation, indeed, Revelation is clear about the timing of this prophecy, it is the only place where a time frame is given, and it is clear as to the when .. "After the thousand years has expired" .. meaning, post-millennial. That is, 1000 years ends and then Gog & Magog begins .. so to all of those who thought that when the 1000 years ended then judgement comes immediately .. well .. sorry to say, but you were wrong .. or, your esteemed teachers were wrong, with all there degrees and titles and eloquent speeches and books and dvd's etc, they too were flat out wrong.

It's 1000 years PLUS however long it takes for Gog/Magog to reach it's conclusion .. heck, that could take a decade or even more seeing that Gog/Magog takes place in a post technological age .. and not only that, think about this, when the pre-millennial time is up .. the end comes immediately. But, but when the millennium itself is up .. the "end" only just begins, and only God knows how long that event takes before it's conclusion .. 10, 20 years? Only God knows.

Anyways, now all that is out of the way. I will start posting the scriptures with thoughts and commentary soon enough .. 

To be continued .. 

On 7/1/2020 at 10:02 PM, Diaste said:

This is speaking to the influx, integration and infiltration of a people within the people of nations at the time of the end.

We are seeing this happen right before our eyes. 

Islam is the iron. The clay is the ones who appease Islam. 

This is the partially strong, partially weak, unable to adhere. 

Islam is the Iron Kingdom. 

 

Problem is, Islam is not a kingdom.

Daniel gave us a succession of world leading kingdoms immediately following the previous kingdom(s) being replaced, so, we are provided with a repeatable theme.

Kingdom of Babylon fell to Media Persia who took over her #1 spot immediately & with no time gap in between.

Kingdom of Media Persia fell to Greece who took over her #1 spot immediately & with no time gap in between.

Kingdom of Greece fell to Rome (after the Greco Roman wars) who took over her #1 spot immediately & with no time gap in between ..

Kingdom of Rome takes her #1 place and then eventually, this happens :

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Just as the Roman Empire breaketh in pieces and subdued other nations, eventually, she suffered this :

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

"It" .. it being the Roman Empire. And the Roman Empire indeed broke into pieces and bruised (was wounded), "it" broke into it's "original" pieces whereby her nation states regained their independence once more.

Since then, the remnant nations, or the "pieces" of that Roman Empire who regained their independence once more, have largely had their "moment in the sun" periods, all of them jostling & warring against each other  for the title of "top dog", to be counted as #1. And even today, many of those pieces still rank in the top 20 nations of the world, even the weak ones (economically speaking). 

Some of them stayed strong & became stronger, some of those stronger ones became weak, and some of the weak remained weak, and some of the weak became strong .. until we have what we have as they stand today.

And most of her "pieces", since WW2, well they have been mixing themselves with the seed of men who do not mix well, that is multiculturalism, and that corresponds with the prophecy concerning the pieces mixing themselves with the seed of men (foreign peoples).

Which Islamic nations have allowed themselves suffer this decisive thing called multiculturalism? (mixing themselves , that is, their nation(s) with the seed of men) ??

Which Islamic nations, have allowed within their nations, religious opposition to flourish? Not even Sunni & Shia share the same land !!

How then can you say Islam is the Iron kingdom when Islam is neither a kingdom, nor does her individual parts (if she were a kingdom) allow themselves to be mixed? 

Furthermore, since the fall of Roman Empire, all the world leading nations and kingdoms since, have all been at one time or the other, world leading nations or kingdoms themselves.

That is, Roman Empire by proxy (her pieces) have never been out of the "limelight" on the world stage, indeed, her pieces have consistently been world leaders be they militarily or economically.

Islam however, has only had one shining moment, BUT .. even in her glory days, It wasn't really the Islamic kingdom shining, it was the Arab kingdom who eventually created Islam that shone, Islam has never been an accepted world leader/#1 world kingdom to the rest of the world .. Islam has never ruled over the ancient world like Rome, Greece, Media Persia or Babylon did, and Islam has never been a unified kingdom.

This Islam theory totally departs from the theme Daniel laid out, it just doesn't fit.

Again, not only were all those kingdoms mentioned world leaders (as many still are), they were acknowledged as such on the world stage .. yet Islam has never held such global acceptance/respect, not even today.

This being so, the 10 toes come from that broken Roman Empire, those "pieces" .. that head of that beast that was wounded .. and when they, the 10 kings unite in the not too distant future, is when that wounded head gets healed. 

Roman Empire is the iron kingdom, this new doctrine, to me, makes no sense.  

4 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi Serving,

This reminds me of something similar I posted here a few times. I believe 4 prophecies will be fulfilled in one event. The abomination of desolation on a wing (border) of the Temple, seeing it "in the Holy Place", where an image is given power to speak, like God sitting in the Temple of God.

 

I know, it is a crude attempt at artwork, but it is only intended to illustrate the point.

Hi Uriah,

Yes, we are entering into very interesting times and I believe all of us here will get to see the answer to all our ponderings on these subjects, well, see what we see before we lose our heads of course  

10 hours ago, Salvation67 said:

You just might be onto something cause im kind of seeing this going on here in the U.S right now with the MLB issues and Covid. The mentality seems to be  "Hey, we feel very strongly about this....and you should too, and if you dont agree then you are part of the problem." so yea, I can see it being very possible.

Thanks bro.

Yeah, unfortunately they brainwashed the youth of the West whilst we slept, and by the time the rest of us noticed just how crazy and delusional the younger generations had become .. the damage was done.

Strange how even when the non left was/is in power all over the "West", none of them got the commies and all the other NGO's out of our schools and changed the curriculum .. almost like they are ALL in on it, which of course, they all are.

Like The Lord says, and i'm paraphrasing here ..  "they are all folded together like thorns" .. ALL of them are in on it, it's just one big charade.  

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You kinda get it, but then get off tracked by other things.

Like this, how can it be 3.5 years when it says 1290 days which is not 3.5 years but 3.5 years PLUS 30 days?  

Because i'm only focusing on the 1290 days basically and not bothered giving my explanation of the other 45 days, it's not 30 extra days, but 45 extra days tagged on to the 1290.

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The KEY is understanding that all three numbers in Dan. 12 = HOW LONG until these Wonders End {Second Coming} The Angel asks Jesus that and Jesus tells him from the time holy people lose their power {get conquered by the Anti-Christ} it'll be 1260 days {Second Coming} so likewise, Daniel asks the same question in verse 8, WHAT WILL BE THE END OF THESE THINGS? So, the 1290 and 1335 are also EVENTS and the number of days from said events until the Second Coming Ends all these wonders Daniel was seeing. 

So, your hunch was right, it is the IMAGE as placed by the False Prophet, NOT the Anti-Christ, its the IMAGE of the Anti-Christ or what I see as the E.U. President. This happens 30 days BEFORE the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/Mediterranean Sea Region at the 1260 event where he overcomes the power of the holy peoples {Israel}. So this is Jesus Worship being TAKEN AWAY, not from Christians since the Rapture has already happened, well it will be forbidden from the Remnant Church also, but this s referring to the Jews who repented and started Worshiping Jesus in the Temple of God, the 1/3 of Zechariah 13:8-9, the 2/3 will be cut-off, but the 1/3 calls God God BEFORE the Day of the Lord which comes via Zechariah 14:1-2. We also know Elijah is sent back BEFORE the DOTL via Malachi 4:5-6 to turn Israel back unto God. So, Israel repent BEFORE the DOTL, that is how they know to Flee Judea at the 1290, the 1260 is the DOTL and it lasts for 1260 days. 

Thus, the 1335 is THE BLESSING, the Two-witnesses show up to turn Israel back unto God BY FAITH.

1335 comes FIRST..........Two-witnesses show up 1335 days before the Second Coming ends all these wonders.

1290 comes next, the False Prophet FORBIDS Jesus Worship in the Temple of God and places the IMAGE of the Anti-Christ in the Temple.

1260 comes last, the Anti-Christ Conquers Israel, Jerusalem and the Mediterranean Sea Region to become THE BEAST fir 1260 days, after which Jesus shows up, so its 1260 days until ALL THESE WONDERS END {Second Coming}.

 

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your view on this, and the number sequence you've given, and the events .. well, you've got it all back to front according to my understanding.

Oh, and there is another number you've missed out in your counting .. the 2300 days !!

18 hours ago, Diaste said:

A point here; if no evidence exists a factual conclusion cannot be reached, it's just speculation. I'm good with that but it just has to be acknowledged.

Acknowledged

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As a philosophical point: It's fact there is going to be a great battle in the valley of decision. The armies of earth are gathered there, Jesus appears, touches down on the Mount of Olives, the people left in Jerusalem flee to safety in the newly created valley and God wages war against the combined strength of the armies so gathered in the valley of Jehoshaphat. This is all the armies of the world; "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." - Rev 16:14

This is literally the same thing as; "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about" - Rev 20:8-9

The former at Armageddon, the latter after the millennium. It cannot be denied there are two great campaigns by the kings of the earth against the Most High God and Jesus Christ. The dispute is whether this similarity is tied to Gog of Magog and Ezekiel 38-39.

 

Agreed, pre millenial and post millennial .. two events sharing similarities. 

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There is this;

"And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." - Rev 20:3 

He had been deceiving the nations and that is stopped until, "the thousand years should be fulfilled:" Then; "Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog," This is Gog and Magog and nothing saying it was not Gog and Magog and the same nations that Satan, "should deceive...no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled" Same deception, same Satan, same nations; those similarities are stark enough for me to conclude two wars, both involving the deception of Gog of Magog by Satan.

 

Agreed .. two events, each separated with the millennium smack bang in between them both.

Thus have you stated that there are indeed two events, and that these two events share similarities within the execution of God's wrath.

Meaning, there are similarities, but they are not the same event .. this is what you are admitting here .. and so far, yes .. I agree.

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A list of striking similarity that I cannot ignore:

Okay, lets do this .. but remember, you already pointed out that these two events share similarities .. they are different events, but they share similarities .. meaning, similarities are just that, mere similarities. 

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"For in my jealousy [and] in the fire of my wrath have I spoken"- Eze 38

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" - Rev 6

 

Similar .. but there are many instances where scriptures not only mention the word wrath, but also where God indeed executes His wrath, and they can be found all throughout the OT, many, many times .. and all of them invoked for related reasons, that being sin related, but all of them executed within unrelated time periods and for specific reasons affecting unrelated generations of peoples. 

A simple search of the word "wrath" in a bible word search will show that .. I'm sure I don't need to give you examples though, you should already know this.

Thus, with that in mind, wouldn't we need to be more specific before considering those two examples as evidence?

You see, the first quote just states that God executed His wrath, even though we know the context that it relates to, I acknowledge that, but .. it is still just a statement of action .. the statement itself is non specific, instead, we need to read the chapter for the specificity  

And when we do that, we find this specific declaration within the chain of unbroken discourse :

Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Now we can argue the statement "latter years", true .. but consider this insight within the same chapter 38 :

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

Can't we presume from that interesting statement that it wasn't until Gog neared the vicinity of Israel that those thoughts of attacking the camp of the saints entered his mind?

Meaning, it was not planned that way from the outset? But came about as a consequence of his warring by mere vicinity of said target in relation to his army at that time?

Yet ..

The first war, pre millennium, is planned .. even before the entering into Israel's lands and by extension returning en mass for the Armageddon "outbreak" !!

One insurgency is pre planned .. yet the other is stated as a compulsive reaction only coming into this leader's mind during his campaign .. that is, thinking on his feet as the saying goes.

So when seeking context, instead of finding matches, we find two distinct differences dealing with military tactics !!

Differences that should not be there if it were speaking of the same event .. 

That's my small take dealing with the first declaration of wrath you quoted.

The second however,  the second quote you provided is specific, "The great day of His wrath" .. we've all read that specific wording before right? And we all immediately know what He is speaking of without even looking for context. And as I pointed out, one battle deals with pre planned invasion/occupation/preparedness .. the other is an utterly compulsive decision made on the fly.

Conclusion : one statement is generalised, one is specific

One context is pre-planned, one is compulsive.

These are opposite mind sets/plans taking place within two events sharing similarities .. but besides similarities, we've also discovered two contradictions .. that is, two different reasons for attacking Israel.

Almost as though they were two different events after all.

Something you already admitted to ..

So i'd have to disagree that this is a valid match tying the two together, instead I found discrepancies.

Before, or even if needed, getting into your other similarities, can I leave this with you to ponder on?

Because I also acknowledge that we all need time to weigh these things up, and i'm in no rush. 

Leave it with you bro.

19 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Agree.  I also think it will coincide with receiving his mark, something that takes place during the first 30 days of the 1290, a grace period of sorts.  Then worshiping the image becomes mandatory under the penalty of death.

Absolutely.  Those who are deceived by his signs and wonders will be fanatical in their support of him as God and won't be able to conceive of any reason why anyone would want to opt-out.  They'll all buy into the lie and have an interest in its enforcement.

Yeah, they will think that they are doing God a service.

We are on the same page.

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Kinda my point as well. 

Diaste,

Just consider that which you admitted to Sister for a moment, that is, this :

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Interesting. That didn't occur to me. That could take some time. 

That was concerning how the Gog & Magog war actually begins after the millennium is up, that is, 1000 years plus however long the whole Gog & Magog scenario takes. (good on you btw for your honesty/humility there, I respect that)

Now expand your critical thinking for a possible answer for yourself .. perhaps, perhaps God really will have a true final generation, that is, the day will come where God will shut the wombs of every woman on the planet, seeing the predetermined number of humans is reached (surely there is going to be a cap of sorts on how many people God determined would be born before the end of ends comes), and this final generation must age to a point of God's liking before the end itself?

Maybe God is even giving that last generation of children a final chance too?

If so, that too can "take some time".

He does after all declare, "That the heathen may know". The "Heathen" being those of the nations on whom no rain falls, that is, the rebel nations who reject the Lord, those same nations from whence the armies of Gog & Magog are sourced. That is, this group/confederacy :

Ezekiel 38

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Diaste, you admitted to something that didn't occur to you, and no insult, but it was something pretty obvious that you missed, and you only missed it because your doctrine (on this subject that is) had no room for it nor even considered it, that is, those who made the doctrine you are agreeing with made a mistake, they failed to acknowledge a simple yet critical fact.  

So all I ask is this .. ask yourself, what else was "missed" ?

There is still room for more input, perhaps you can add to the possibilities that those doctrine makers missed, those who did you that disservice !! 

What I've highlighted above is the only duality I can perceive in Ezekiel's chpts 38 & 39. 

And it does not speak of them attacking anything pre millennial, but speaks of them guarding each other from everybody else (likely doctrinally & physically) until the day comes where they will attack, that being post millenial, that is, in "the latter years" at the very end of ends.

Meaning, yes, the nations of that future army exist now, and they will band together during the millennium, and when the time comes, when Satan is released, after the millennium is up, then they attack. Not before, but after the millennium.

Gotta stop myself from going on a tangent, but do you get where I am coming from?

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I'm not familiar with the two-terms of the FP but I see the image similarly.  The people of the world build it so its a collaborative effort, some sort of code of conduct, that starts being built when the AoD takes place.  Its something everyone has a say in, like an online petition, that expresses the FP's dominion.

EXACTLY !! 

I've always thought he is going to reintroduce a form of common law, thus they will involve the people and likely send out some sort of tick the box document, you know, pick a/b or c questionnaire, that way, he/they still get to frame/control the narrative/outcome, all within a predetermined and tolerable format by the deliberate framing of said questions. 

It seems common sense really doesn't it Daze, when people feel they're really part of something, that they are co-builders, that they have their very own horse in the race as it were, then they commit more readily and more passionately.  

And this passion is exactly what's needed when deciding what to do to those outsiders/rebels who refuse to be a part of their new agreed upon utopia. 

"We gave them a chance" will likely be the phrase of the day .. because when people feel justified, almost anything can be done "in their name".

Thanks Daze.   

3 hours ago, Sister said:

Yes we have a match!  Good post.

Thanks Sister !!

Was reading Daniel last week and something jumped out at me.

You know when you read something you've read a zillion times and out of nowhere that voice in your head tells you, "This is what it means" .. even though you weren't even trying to work it out, you were just reading the chapter as you have done a zillion times before.

Well, when reading about the Abomination of Desolation, that is what happened to me.

And that voice in my head told me this, "This is the image of the beast"

And it just seemed so logical, so obvious, and I thought to myself, "How did I not see this before" ?

Here is the verse :

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

I am of that group that believes the above daily sacrifice is referring to followers of the Lord, since we sacrifice our sinful nature daily, that is, deny our many fleshly lusts to the best of our abilities for the Lord, there will come a time when our beliefs will be seen as "hate speech" and the FP will endeavour to undermine our world view at every step .. this is our power that is being scattered, scattered in the eyes of the unbelieving world that is.

Don't get me wrong, pretty much everyone i've seen who believes the same, still believe in a physical temple too .. we just need to discern and separate the clues between the two .. this is so the world does not understand what is truly being conveyed, as God said He does do .. on purpose. 

Anyways, we know the false prophet has two terms of roughly 3 1/2 years respectfully. 

But his first 3 1/2 years is not one of tribulation against the saints, but rather, one of trying to convince Christians and seduce them onto his side by his "Marvellous words". (this is why it is inaccurate to say 7 year tribulation, it is only 3 1/2 years of tribulation for the saints) 

And we must realise something else here .. only the Christians are able to resist his marvellous words, but what of the rest of the world?

Obviously, they will be lapping it up and in agreeance .. they will be under "strong delusion to believe the lie" from the Lord right .. think about that for a moment.

If all the other people agree with his marvellous words except the Christians .. then exactly whose "power" will be getting "scattered" at that time?

Well, Christian based nations of course. Hence the "power of the holy people will be scattered". Our systems become undermined and rejected by the world, we are not yet destroyed or suffering tribulation, just undermined and rejected by the rest of the world, and even among many of our fellow countrymen too .. our power or lifestyles reflected in our countries laws will be under attack from all sides .. that is, our systems of governance and law will begin to be readied for replacement with some other system reflecting some other world view .. "his" world view.

But .. but after that first term, after that first term he switches tactics. Now he enshrines into law, or "sets up" a new system where the inhabitants of the world put together this "image" for the first beast .. and once this "image" is "set up", he gives "power unto it" .. and only then comes the tribulation of the saints. (I believe the image of the beast is some new constitution one must make a pledge to) 

Now, notice that after the Abomination of Desolation is set up, in other verses I've not bothered putting here yet, after it is set up, he comes after the saints .. comes after our very lives this time. And, he only has 3 1/2 years left

Well what happens after he sets the image of the beast up?

If we don't take this mark of the beast which is the physical manifestation of the images precepts or guidelines, we are put to death !!

And how long does he have once the image of the beast is set up and it's correlating mark is released?

3 1/2 years !! Exactly the same time span as the Abomination of Desolation !!

And another thing .. the saints are only attacked physically after this Abomination of desolation is "set up" .. exactly the same thing happens after the image of the beast is set up too !!

As far as I am concerned .. Houston, we have a match.

Your thoughts?

On 6/24/2020 at 5:11 PM, R. Hartono said:

THE 1ST GOG & MAGOG WAR WILL HAPPEN BEFORE THE 7 YEARS OF GREAT TRIBULATION AND GOD WILL SPARE 1/6TH OF GOG.

Ezekiel 39:² And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee....

After Gog is defeated the Israelites will burn Gog's weapon as fuel fire for seven years.

^{Ezekiel 39:9} And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years: ¹⁰ So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests.

So will they be burning tanks? No wood there .. Artillery pieces? .. no wood there .. rocket launchers? no wood there .. guns? no wood there except for maybe AK47 gun stocks, but that would in no way be enough wood to last 7 years, not a chance .. so what modern weapons will they burn that are made out of wood? 

Makes no sense unless, unless this is dealing with a period of time where mankind goes back to basics .. kind of like what God describes happening during the millennium, and in this age, one would definitely expect wood being the dominant building product once more, domestic and militarily .. and only a post millennial world can match with the circumstances.

This can only be after the millennium. 

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THE 2ND GOG & MAGOG WAR WILL HAPPEN WHEN JESUS MILLENNIUM IS OVER.

Rev 20:7  And when the thousand years are EXPIRED, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,...

 

See above .. again, the burden of proof is to show exactly where in Ezekiel's two chapters (38 & 39) the duality or split needed for this doctrine occurs?   

We all know that God often generalises in one chapter, and then focuses in with more information within another chapter, and He does this for many subjects too, not just prophecy. 

So when comparing both chapters, I do not see a split, instead I see information building .. a complementing and joining of information to paint the whole picture .. just like the 4 gospels do for example. 

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GOG WILL BE TOTALLY BURN OUT AS NO MORE TIME IS LEFT FOR REPENTANCE AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS EXPIRED.

Rev 20:9 .........and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

Well the example you used definitely aren't part of the group, seeing they get devoured.

But what of those not involved in the war? Those other inhabitants of the world during those times that God mentions?

You're adamant that once the 1000 years expires, that's it, times up !!

But that's un-biblical. 

Example : God said that when 70 years are up for Israel in Babylon, He would bring them out ..  

Question : (a) How long did it take for God to fully bring Israel out of Babylon?

                  (b) If there were still Israeli's in Babylon after the 70 years expired, prophetically speaking, would that make God a liar? 

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AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF GOG, THE TIME FOR THIS WORLD IS FINISHED, THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT BEGINS.

^{Rev 20 11} And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. ¹² And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God ................

ITS A TOTAL NONSENSE TO SAY THAT THE BURNING OF THE WEAPON OF GOG AS FUEL FOR 7 YEARS WILL HAPPEN AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS IS OVER, AS THE DEVIL ALREADY CAST OUT TO FIRE n GOG ARMY IS ALREADY BURNT OUT.

WHATS THE USE FOR GOD TO LET THE ISRAELITES BURN THAT GOG'S WEAPON FOR ANOTHER 7 YEARS TO MAKE IT ANOTHER 7 YEARS AFTER 1000 YEARS = 1007 YEARS ? A TOTAL BLUNDER.

 

The war begins after the 1000 years is up !!

So that's 1000 years + ???? post years !!

It could take another decade for all we know, nobody knows except the Lord.

Hartono, this doctrine has big problems, I don't know who came up with it, but he/she/they are wrong. 

This is the problem with taking other people's interpretations .. because you also take their mistakes. 

Better to work these things out for ourselves .. it gives deeper understanding on topics when doing so and is far more satisfying.

And when mistakes are found, it is far easier to address, since you only have yourself to face .. 

On 6/23/2020 at 6:42 PM, Diaste said:

I known you didn't ask me this question but it's here:

"19 For in my jealousy [and] in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that [are] upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that [are] with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I [am] the LORD." - Eze 38

This is the wrath of God, the same as in Rev 6 and Rev 16.

"12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" - Rev 6

"17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great. 

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, [every stone] about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great." - Rev 16

There is a great deal of similarity in the language in Eze 38, Rev 6 and 16, enough to conclude it's all the same time/space moment. Eze 38:23 says, "I shall be known in the eyes of many nations, they shall now I am the Lord." I don't think this circumstance is possible after the millennium; not with Jesus reigning for 1000 years in a vast city built a gemstone foundation sporting pearly gates and considering the other attributes of the Millennial Reign. It's just not possible the people would be ignorant of the Lord and who He is.

And after the millennium; "9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." No earthquake, no hail, no cites falling, etc. The language is very different here. 

So this Gog Magog thing happens twice; once at Armageddon, once after the Millennium.

 

Thanks for showing that.

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And after the millennium; "9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." No earthquake, no hail, no cites falling, etc. The language is very different here. 

 This is from Revelation, but revelation only touches on the subject, it is generalising, thus if we want the details, then we must go to Ezekiel .. just as we all did .. and nowhere in Ezekiel do I find a separation into two prophetic time frames, instead I find one continuous narration about a one time event yet to come. And when reading it that way, as a one time event, then we do find a great earthquake, hail, fire & brimstone:

Ezekiel 38

18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

or

Ezekiel 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

So here is the thing, it needs to be shown exactly where in Ezekiel you and others believe this separation into two time events occurs .. Revelation does not have the details, it only reveals the end result. that is, fire consumes them ..

But this is exactly what Ezekiel reveals too .. fire & brimstone !!! God is revealing in Ezekiel how He devours them with fire, a more precise understanding than one can glean just from Revelations brief mention of it.

Only Ezekiel has the in depth details, so if there is any separation, it must surely be shown from Ezekiel itself .. where the in depth details themselves are found.

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Eze 38:23 says, "I shall be known in the eyes of many nations, they shall now I am the Lord." I don't think this circumstance is possible after the millennium; not with Jesus reigning for 1000 years in a vast city built a gemstone foundation sporting pearly gates and considering the other attributes of the Millennial Reign. It's just not possible the people would be ignorant of the Lord and who He is.

To keep from writing a novel, tomorrow or the next day, I will reply to what you said above.

Cheers.