10 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

There are 2 Gog wars, before the 7 years of Tribulation n after Millennium is over.

Thats why the Israelites will burn Gog weapon for 7 years.

Care to show me exactly where in scripture you believe Gog & Magog is shown to be two events?

19 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

In Revelation  20 fire will consume Gog n they are not given  as bird food.

 

So stating that "Revelation" didn't say something Ezekiel did, makes which book wrong to you?

I can answer your question with extra evidence, no problem, but you need to tell me which book is wrong first .. 

Revelation or Ezekiel ?

 

 

 

 

On 6/20/2020 at 5:18 PM, R. Hartono said:

So who are given as food for birds :

Ezekiel 39:4 .....I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals

Verses 2 - 5 tells us .. the sixth part we've been discussing :

2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel.

3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

As you can see, verse 4 lays it out for us. 

 

 

 

On 6/19/2020 at 7:21 AM, Erica67 said:

This is a very interesting topic.  I'm wondering whether this "mark of the beast" might indeed be a microchip of some sort, embedded in the hand, used to identify people, and is linked to your bank account, so you can make purchases etc.

It's looking that way. Notice where scripture says this "mark" goes :

Revelation 14:9 
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

To go "in" our right hand etc, surely means "under the skin" would it not? And for that to be so, then it must be some form of technology, like a RFID type chip or some other similar technology not yet released.

Quote

But my question is, if this happens, how is this the "mark", unless it's brought in by a global leader, president etc for example,

Pretty much what the bible describes .. 

Quote

and no-one will be allowed to trade without it?

Worse than that actually .. They will give us all a choice, one choice .. take the mark or die.

Do NOT take the mark.

 

 

13 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Very funny why wud God spare that 1/6 just to kill them again.

One can only think that if he/she believes Gog & Magog is speaking of two events .. pre & post millennium as it were.

This problem does not exist for those of us who take Gog & Magog as a single event in time however.

See if you can at least see within these scriptures the point being made:

Ezekiel 39 :

1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

Q: Turn back?

 

---------

 

----------

A: Abandon objective

Q: So the army will turn back from whence they came .. Will God turn all of the army back?

2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

A: No, God leaves one group behind to continue on to the objective .. continue on simply because this group did not get turned back !!

See it?  One turns back, one stays ..

Q: And of that group that stays, how many did God say there were?

2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

A: The sixth part.

Q: So what do those who were not turned back do?

2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

A: They attack 

You see, I wasn't being funny after all.

It is clear as crystal .. God is telling us that the main group of Gogs army gets turned back from its objective, whilst the smaller group carries on to attack the camp of the saints.

Can you see it?

 

 

16 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Thanks but.. you didn't explain it at all. You said it does not make it true. See they will not be able to buy or sell unless they have the mark. Yet.. this really for me is mute. Well everyone but those written in the lambs book will WORSHIP the beast. See that has to happen first. Again.. kind of hard to buy and sell with out this mark. Again what you said is not in the word of God... about what the MARK of the beast is.

 

Were you talking to me Blade?

Not sure to answer this or not ..

11 hours ago, Eddy Crocker said:

You have a choice whether or not to yield to the Adamic nature. So it’s a choice.

 

Human nature is not a choice, it's a trait. A trait that is formed before we ever realise what human nature even is. The "choice" comes after realisation, and for many .. if at all.

 

That nature can influence us if we let it.

 

Though true, this thinking is actually back to front within the context of our debate.

Our fallen human nature has already influenced us, hence "our human nature" .. I say "back to front" because it is actually the Holy Spirit that influences us if we let "it", or to be fair, some other moral code. This is what Christ's mission was all about, giving us a means to overcome our fallen nature by countering it with His truth through His Holy Spirit working within us.  

 

The buying and selling is like what they were doing in the temple when Jesus threw over the money changers tables over. The religious leaders at that time were all buying and selling their doctrines and beliefs to others.
 

Sorry, not so. They were actually "buying and selling" .. behold : 

 

John 2:14  And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

 

 

Oxen, sheep & doves .. real "products", real money.

Again, actual buying & selling taking place, as it will be for the Mark of the beast system .. this backs my position and contradicts yours, sorry to say. 

 

The church’s are selling their books and teaching tapes. What ideas do we try to buy or to try to sell to others? He  says thou shall not make my house a house of merchandise. It takes many acts of unrighteousness to corrupt the soul. It’s not just all of a sudden receiving an external mark.

If it were to happen this way, it would only be a manifestation of many acts of yielding to the the inward mark of the beast.

The bible indeed talks about religious establishments/movements using people as merchandise. I fully understand where you are coming from because I fully understand that position !!

What I am saying to you is that your interpretation of buying & selling, through the lens of your doctrine on this matter, just does not fit.

When scripture speaks of buying & selling, it really means buying & selling .. there is no philosophy attached because there is no philosophy involved nor needed.

 

Where does it talk about a computer chip in the Bible? 

 

You are referring to what I said here :

 

(b) deals with some unknown format (cash? credit card? RFID chip? Tattoo? some other yet unknown tech?) that DOES has EVERYTHING to do with buying & selling.

 

Notice I was putting forth possible options as examples?

 

Notice this highlighted bit :

 

(b) deals with some unknown format (cash? credit card? RFID chip? Tattoo? some other yet unknown tech?) that DOES has EVERYTHING to do with buying & selling. 

 

That should answer your question .. I was questioning possibilities, i was not quoting scripture.

 

I think I have dismantled your argument, please think on it.

Cheers.

 

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

I agree, though it seems the buying and selling is the pressure to accept the mark and the reason for the mark is to identify who follows the beast and rejects Christ.

100% agree and have always thought this.

 

On 6/13/2020 at 8:33 PM, R. Hartono said:

Sister, why wud God spare 1/6 of Gog's army to tell the whole world of mighty God's hand if it happens after the Jesus Millennium when the earth shall b Vanished n the Great Whit Throne judgment begins.

As Sister pointed out, the 1/6 part IS the part that ATTACKS the camp of the saints .. what makes you think they were spared? 

They are to be destroyed, not spared.

Maybe look over the scripture again and get back to Sister.

On 4/22/2020 at 6:29 PM, Eddy Crocker said:

On 4/22/2020 at 5:19 AM, Diaste said:

The definition of the mark itself is a willingness to identify and a personal receiving of the emblem of that identification. 

The word for 'mark' calls it a physical something of allegiance. 

 

We must remember to interpret the Bible according to how it was instituted in the Old Testament. Jesus said he came to fulfill. The question is what is he fulfilling. 
it also says he’s the author and finisher of our faith. He also says my word shall be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses.

Isaiah 8:20 

²⁰ To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them

The mark of the beast is not necessarily a physical mark. It was in Old Testament but in the new it’s using symbolic language based on Old Testament.

Look at Cain he was a  fruit of his parents disobedience of eating of the tree. Cain was simply manifesting this Mark of the beast which is the Adamic nature of his parents. 

Today is the same thing today. What nature are we manifesting? The first Adam or the second Adam which is Christ. Remember he died on the tree why one might ask?

The prophecy has to do with BUYING & SELLING.

The "mark" is merely the method to attain said means !! 

Remember, this "Mark" can only be RECEIVED by CHOICE, totally UNLIKE our already provided "Adamic nature" .. but I digress ..

Therefore, the question really is this :

What best describes this "Mark" that people will one day willingly RECEIVE?

a) Something that represents/gives access to "Adamic nature" (which human nature we ALREADY have) 

OR

b) Something that represents/gives access to buying & selling WITHIN a future economic SYSTEM (that is YET to come)?

See the problem with your argument?

(a) deals with a philosophical argument dealing with human nature which is totally UNRELATED to buying & selling.

(b) deals with some unknown format (cash? credit card? RFID chip? Tattoo? some other yet unknown tech?) that DOES has EVERYTHING to do with buying & selling.

Isn't the answer rather obvious now as to which path of inquiry we should be addressing? 

Surely NOT path (a).

Hebrews 9:28 
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The second coming, notice when He appears the second time, for those who look for Him, it is unto SALVATION .. that is, they are accepted and taken into eternal life which is of course, their SALVATION from death for ever more, and this only occurs at the RESURRECTION.

1 John 3:2 
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It is a mystery UNTIL they are changed, seeing that they do NOT know what they shall be, just one of the mysteries of course, but one pertaining specifically to the RESURRECTION.

Revelation 10:7 
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The mystery (all mysteries) of God finish (for His disciples/saints) at the beginning of the sounding of the 7th trumpet (when they are changed and meet Christ in the clouds at His second appearing)

Again, WHEN does the mystery of God finish?

When the 7th angel sounds the 7th trump .. specifically as he BEGINS to sound his trump.

This is the true timing of the "rapture" whose biblical title is called the resurrection.

On 01/11/2017 at 4:35 AM, Dennis1209 said:

I guess the Apostle Paul must have been mistaken, looking for His return in his own lifetime?

Hi Dennis1209,

2 Thess 1:1

1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

Paul knew very well that the Lord was NOT coming in his own lifetime, hence this :

2 Thess 2:1-2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

IF it ever seems that one of God's Apostles is mistaken on a matter of interpretation .. well .. a little advice .. the error is NEVER on the side of God's CHOSEN APOSTLES. 

Thank you.

3 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

 

9) We're not appointed to God's wrath. We don't have to go through the tribulation as the post trib theory teaches.

 1 Thessalonians 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁹ For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

10) We're not appointed to God's wrath. We don't have to go through the tribulation as the post trib theory teaches.

Romans 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁹ Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Romans 5:9 (ESV) Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Romans 5:9 (NIV) Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

 

Now you see the scriptures. Bottom line, anyone "deliberately" promoting a post-trib rapture contradicts the bible and have not crucified the lust of the flesh and it's desires (Galatians 5:24).

Hi Psalms 37:4,

Just want to say that the wrath of God is NOT the same as the tribulation of the saints.

The tribulation of the saints is Satan warring against the saints through his man of sin who is coming with his mark of the beast system .. and scripture even warns the saints this tribulation is coming AGAINST them, and tells the SAINTS to be strong TIL THE END being prepared to DIE for God .. and that all those SAINTS who do this WILL receive the crown of life .. guaranteed. 

The wrath of God however, is against ALL those who took the mark of the beast and worshipped the beast and his image.

THEY are not the same at all .. 

Tribulation of the saints is from Satan against the saints

Wrath of God is from God against the ungodly

Thank you.

 

On 17/10/2017 at 11:36 PM, Diaste said:

I don't hold to replacement theology. It's nothing new and it's wrong. 

Hi Diaste,

I do not agree with replacement theology either, Israel plays a HUGE part in God's future plans, and when God mentions Israel, it IS Israel He is speaking to without a doubt, so we actually agree on this.

My points were dealing with Christ's priesthood, Jews & Gentiles, and how that peculiar NATION of Priests spoken of are in fact the followers of Christ .. this has nothing to do with replacing Israel but is what we are told about throughout the New Testament concerning the church, and His church IS THAT peculiar nation (since her people are world wide and not a nation as we usually describe a nation in the geographically fixed terms nations are defined in) but made up of millions of individuals scattered throughout the nations of the world who constitute the "body" of that peculiar nation.

Anyways, we disagree on the 70 weeks, that's okay, gonna do a little post about it soon anyways, you're welcome to be the opposing voice on it too, after all, we are commanded to test/question all things pertaining to scripture, and that is all we are doing, so on that note, have a nice day brother.

On 15/10/2017 at 6:53 PM, Diaste said:

I have to reject this line of thought. Let's assume that 490 years is the time frame and that 483 years passed and the prophetic clock was stopped to allow for a gap between 69 weeks and the final 70th week. If that's true then there has been 2500+ years for the Jews to fulfill the requirements of Dan 9:24. I'm basing this on when Cyrus ruled in Babylon to the current age. God said there would be 70 sevens to allow the Jewish people time for, "... your people and your holy city to finish^[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place..." but there has been over 300 sevens! That is more than righteous. In fact the Jews have all the time of the full 70 weeks to fulfill the hope of the Father for them. But it will take acceptance of the Lord Jesus to do this and they, as a nation reject the Messiah and plow forward to fulfill their need for national identity in the form of the Temple. If the Jewish people have not accepted Christ, when all the prophets of the OT did, after all these years, when are they going to?

Here's the problem ..

You're assuming that Israel HAD to fulfil those 6 requirements within those 70 weeks for the 70 weeks to come to a close, other words, your position is actually saying this : the 70  weeks can only come to a close WHEN Israel fulfils the 6 requirements regardless of how many weeks pass in real time, be it 70 weeks, 100 weeks, 150 weeks, or, 200 weeks etc etc because there is a gap inserted into the prophecy that will come into play some day (??) in the future WHEN Israel will accept Christ as their Messiah, and that event would signify the 70th week being fulfilled regardless if 300 weeks of real time takes place or not .. but this undermines the whole point of setting the 70 weeks deadline in the first place !!

And God didn't give a deadline for nothing. 

You see, it would be a contradiction on God's behalf for declaring the 70 weeks in the first place if in fact it takes 100 or 200 or 300 + weeks to fulfil in real time !!  as though God didn't realise that Israel would reject Messiah and fail the deadline. But He did know that Israel would fail, and Israel DID fail the 70 weeks deadline which is WHY their city and their sanctuary was destroyed and they were ended as a nation for over 2000 years.

And since God already knew that Israel would fail, He took it upon Himself to fulfil those requirements HIMSELF, as a WITNESS against Israel's failure, and He did .. and since He fulfilled them, then they (the 70 weeks) are FULFILLED, meaning that there is now no way left for Israel to fulfil what God instead had to fulfil Himself .. see?

And if the 70 weeks are not yet over, then NONE OF US could know of Christ UNTIL those 70 weeks are completed BY Israel .. because Christ would not be anointed UNTIL Israel (as a nation) anointed Him as per the 6th requirement .. see?  So then it becomes this, WHY did God fulfil this when ISRAEL were meant to? And since God fulfilled this, doesn't it mean that Israel FAILED to fulfil this? And the answer is YES, of course Israel FAILED to fulfil this, otherwise God would not have had to anoint Messiah HIMSELF.  

The whole reason WE the believing Gentiles are a priesthood, a peculiar nation, is precisely because of Israel's failure to fulfil the 70 weeks, which is WHAT Christ meant by this :  Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Seeing that the kingdom of God is taken from Israel, and God Himself arranged for those requirements to be fulfilled, and did fulfil them, then these have become obsolete  :  your people and your holy city to finish^[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy ..they become obsolete because God was forced to fulfil them Himself because of Israel's failure, which He did, and as a consequence the priesthood was given to ANOTHER NATION because God had to fulfil it in Israel's place .. had Israel NOT failed to fulfil the 70 weeks, then ISRAEL herself would have been that NATION of priests instead, but they failed the 70th week deadline hence the Gentiles taking their place as His priests.  

You can NOT give the priesthood to another nation if the 70 weeks were still running, but only if the 70 weeks are COMPLETE can you then give the priesthood to another.

You see?

Saying that the 70th week is unfulfilled causes more contradictions, and not just prophetic ones, but basic doctrinal ones too !!

But these contradictions don't exist for those who say that the 70 weeks are COMPLETE .. and they need no special explaining or reshuffling/reinterpreting of the prophecies/doctrines to make way for them either.

And this : 

Quote

If the Jewish people have not accepted Christ, when all the prophets of the OT did, after all these years, when are they going to?

The millennium.

Otherwise, what is the point of even having the millennium in the first place, God could just wrap it all up at the 2nd coming and that would be that, but He doesn't, so the millennium serves a purpose, and that purpose deals with Israel learning of their Messiah's doctrine and KEEPING it, it is where ALL OF ISRAEL become saved, during the millennium WHEN they accept Him as their Messiah NATIONALLY.

Thanks Diaste.

On 07/10/2017 at 8:25 PM, Diaste said:

Hi everyone.

It has been a bit since I posted, been under the weather. I think it was all the smoke from the fires here in the west, very thick this year. But the smoke has cleared and we are all doing much better!

I have to confess. I know that I can be quite forceful, cynical, even blunt in the words I use. I do care about all the brethren in the church of Jesus but I don't say it and that is a great failure on my part.  I want us all to be in the kingdom, immortal, glorified in Jesus, in mansions with power, riches and great responsibility. Truly.

The power of God is salvation and I desire all to come to this reality, a reality more real than that of this earth. I stand against the enemy of that reality and will continue. That enemy is in our midst.

Two thing occur in conjunction; The 70th week and the covenant confirmed by the "he" in Dan 9:27.  The "he" must be in power, or have power, to confirm such a covenant since it would appear the Temple must stand again in order for, "...he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,".  Since the Temple does not stand now it would take extraordinary measures to begin construction in the midst of millions who will oppose any Jewish Temple built in Jerusalem. It won't matter the location, in the City of David or on the Mount, Temple existence will be the offense for a great many Arabs of the Muslim faith. 

THE powerful leader will make the covenant and in the 3.5 years will profane the Temple. This has to be the beast. So then the beast come to power, not 'revealed' at the beginning of the week, or before, in order to confirm the covenant for the whole 7 years. Likely he will need to demonstrate great power, or rise to this position in a flash of power; or Israel would not trust their safety to him.

This would be the beast and Israel may or may not know who they have entered into agreement. This necessitates the appearance of the two witnesses at the beginning of the week; to warn Israel and oppose the beast and his followers. If that does not appear agreeable keep in mind the time frames: 1260 days of prophecy of the witnesses and 1260 days from the confirmation of the covenant to the A of D. Also, the witnesses could not have 1260 days of prophecy in the 2nd half as the Wrath of God begins sometime before the end of the week, how long I cannot tell. It could be as long as 5-6 months. Maybe the Wrath of God only lasts a week. Still would short the time of prophecy of the two witnesses.

Possibly the witnesses appear just prior to the A of D in order to fulfill the entire 1260 days before the Wrath of God falls on the earth. I think not. The two witnesses oppose the beast and when he rises to power he will not suffer any resistance, especially in Israel and Jerusalem, which is where the witnesses will be, tormenting the the people of earth and destroying their enemies. 

It makes great sense that the two will be Moses and Elijah. These are the two most revered figures in Jewish history; Moses the lawgiver and Elijah the great prophet. All Jewish religion is based on the Law of Moses. What a shock when he returns to oppose Jewish religious history! We know Elijah will come as the Lord has said. Enoch may be the other however Moses would be a more powerful witness to the truth of God and the lies of religion.

 

Hi Diaste,

Concerning this :

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The reason I can not accept that this is speaking of the "beast" is a simple one .. and that is that the Temple to be built, will, on completion and even before completion, will ALREADY be desolate .. it will be desolate simply because Jesus is the ONLY way to God and the coming Temple and it's services symbolise Israel's ongoing REJECTION of Messiah .. and ANY teaching (Judaism as it is today) that rejects Messiah IS already desolate (can not lead to LIFE) .. therefore it is impossible for the beast to make that which is already desolate (what the Temple REPRESENTS) .. desolate .. (seeing that the Temple is the embodiment of Judaisms misplaced aspirations and ongoing rejection of Messiah).

And as for this :  "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" .. the abominations mentioned are the abominations that the Israelite's constantly committed against God's covenant, like these for examples :

Jeremiah 7:30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.

Ezekiel 5:11 Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.

And : "he shall make it desolate" concerns (his) Christ's New Covenant "replacing" the Old Covenant, that is, the Old Covenant can not save us, and if it can not save us, it is then become desolate, only the New Covenant gives LIFE now, to reject the New Covenant to follow the Old Covenant does NOT lead to life because it means rejecting Messiah, and if one follows something that rejects LIFE (Messiah) then one follows something desolate (bereft of life). So HIS coming with His New Covenant made the Old one DESOLATE, simple as that.

I also reject the 70 weeks gap theory very strongly and do not for one minute accept that there is a future "week" yet to be fulfilled .. to me, the 70 weeks is long finished/fulfilled.

Question : IF the 70th week was left for a future date to be fulfilled, then WHY was Israel punished?

Because the so called future week would in reality be an EXTENSION, like on a repayment, and when one is given an extension, one is NOT punished/defaulted unless the EXTENSION date is likewise broken .. again, WHY then was Israel severely punished in 70ad ( which, btw, was perfectly in line with the failure to fulfil the 6 requirements to be fulfilled WITHIN the set 70 weeks) seeing that this "future week extension" could in no way breached until some time deep into their future?? 

That would be unrighteous of God IF the 70th week was indeed some future week to be fulfilled and yet they were punished for something they had not yet failed !! .. it just doesn't add up when the right questions are asked of it.

Thanks Diaste.  

On 04/09/2017 at 2:34 AM, Last Daze said:

I think it would be beneficial to have a topic where we can encourage each other to be ready for the return of Christ.  We know that iniquity will abound in the last days and that consequently, the love of many will grow cold.  This is why the writer of Hebrews encourages us to stir up one another to love and good works and all the more as we see the day drawing near.  We are cautioned numerous times to stay awake and be vigilant so its reasonable to assume that their will be an increasing tendency for us to be lulled into complacency.  I'd like for this thread to be a countermeasure against that.

The posts can range anywhere from what it means to be ready, to practical guidance in our daily walk with the Lord, to scriptures that encourage us, to knowing and understanding the events around us, to what actions we should take.  In as much as it's possible, I'd like to stay away from debating eschatological differences in this thread and focus on the one thing that we all can (I think) agree on, being ready.

I think that our being ready primarily depends on being doers of the word.  This is what Jesus said makes one wise, and we know that the virgins that were ready were called wise.  So, I think a good place to start is an honest look at our lives, at the activities we are engaged in.  Some revealing questions to ask ourselves could be:

• How much time do we spend in prayer and in renewing our minds in the truth?
• How are we using our spiritual gifts for the edification of the body of Christ?
• What kinds of things do we treasure?  Or put another way, what topics seem to dominate our conversations?

Maybe there are activities in our lives that we need to repent of, not necessarily things that are unlawful, but things that aren't exactly expedient.  Jesus cautioned against becoming entangled in the cares of this life and just generally wasting time.  I find it beneficial on occasion to engage in a perspective check by asking myself these kinds of questions.

Hi Daze,

Good points.

To be "Lovers of God rather than lovers of pleasure" is a big one I try everyday to uphold.

It is so easy in this modern world with nearly every temptation at our fingertips to either slip into our old ways or simply give in to temptation now and then, that one must constantly be on guard not to give in to the cravings of the flesh which constantly wars against the spirit. 

Those single Christians like myself must make it a top priority to stay chaste for the Lord, this is of utmost importance, for "no fornicator/adulterer will enter into the kingdom of heaven", and this I think is one of the hardest things for a human to do, deny him/herself of those feelings/wants/desires especially when loneliness has taken up residence like some unwelcome housemate.

Yet is possible to achieve, and though it can get frustrating at times, the thoughts that constantly uphold me when temptation calls from the "fairer sex", are these simple thoughts, "I don't want to disappoint the Lord any more than I must already do, Oh Lord, give me strength I pray".. other words, even in times of temptation, if we keep the Lord foremost in our thoughts, we have a very good chance of resisting temptation .. and even when our flesh does it's best to make excuses to block those thoughts out, especially "in the moment" where it is in our hands to take the bait "hook, line and sinker" as it were, just keeping the door of our thoughts ajar in mindfulness to the Lord is usually enough for us to overcome temptation and resist what we otherwise might not have if that door was slammed shut for the sake of our "pleasure".

Suppose all I am saying is this, keep the Lord in our thoughts in every situation (even when our flesh is screaming at us NOT TO) and we will always have a way out of temptation .. because if we don't do this EVERY single day, we will fall.

God bless.   

11 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Serving

Yes, I came up with the exact same 1010 days (2.7 yrs) also.  And what you said is what I believe also.

What I am trying to establish, is the King of the North taking Jerusalem, marking their start of the 3.5yrs being trodden down by the gentiles, and fitting this part in the correct place.

This then means that whilst the FP is rising to power and being revealed, then at the end of his 1010 days, the King of the North will enter Jerusalem to occupy and set up his temple there.  So Jerusalem cannot be taken by surprise until this all happens first?  Makes sense.

Whereas I was pondering if this 2300 days has already started?, and this end time kingdom (10 kings) have already been given power to stamp the truth to the ground whilst paving the way for their man?

Have we already entered into that period?,....when the 10 kings eat the whore's flesh and destroy her system?....leaving the possibility that instead of the FP having 2.7 yrs to gain popularity, that it could be shorter? 

In other words;

Has the 2300 days quietly started without us realising?.... and it doesn't necessarily mean the entrance of the FP, but the actual Beast himself (10 kings) being given power first on their own for a little while?  I keep going over Dan 8, and concentrating on this kingdom, that waxes great, and casts the truth to the ground.  I see their lies already and their schemes, ...that the groundwork is already laid, and getting worse.

It appears they have already taken all of the strongholds, there is no one that can stop them, and have we already entered that first 1010 day day period?  It's just nagging me.

 

Hi Sister,

Same thoughts I've had .. it's possible he works behind the scenes for a while before being revealed, who knows, he might start his public "campaign" for the last year or 6 months even of that 1010 days, hard to know for sure since it is God's TIMING and not mans timing as to the point that is the beginning of his work from which we could count, but it does speak of his marvellous words to "wear out the saints" before he starts persecuting them .. and yet even that thing could take place for a short period in the beginning of his 1290 period, it's hard to say.

Regarding the 10 kings, I believe they've been eating away at the whore for a while now and that their actions are not part of the SET time lines God has revealed in the bible because it is/has been a drawn out process .. that is, bit by bit over years .. stealthily at first, more blatant as it progresses, but whose effectiveness will really take off when the false prophet joins them.

As for the 10 kings having power first on their own, it's not exactly a truly unified kingdom YET, sure they are working together, but they are still jostling amongst themselves for the "best seats at the table" so to speak .. they have "received no kingdom as yet" remember UNTIL they give it to the false prophet, THAT'S when they really start impacting the world .. I believe anyways.

Also, their kingdom isn't the one waxing great, this one is the one waxing great  : 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

Lastly, it is possible we've entered the 1010 day period, sure, but we won't really know until he reveals himself will we .. again, WHEN does he reveal himself? At the start of the 1010 days, half way through, near the end of it? Hard to say isn't it?

I'm sure our assessment of this will only sharpen as we get more time to chew on this for our thoughts to process all the tid-bits of info .. like most subjects, sometimes it takes months/years for clarity, suppose it's up to God as to WHEN we will get it right, and usually there are small mistakes until that point arrives right? Just like most of the tricky prophecies we may tackle over the years, some come easier than others, it all depends on the NATURE of the prophecy, and this one has aspects to it which are hard to nail down UNLESS we were one of the ruling elite of course, LOL, and thank God we aren't huh?

Nice chatting, God bless. 

9 hours ago, Sister said:

"don't forget the false prophet comes for 2300 days TOTAL"

Yes, but I am still thinking on this.  I have replied twice and deleted, spending hours.

Something's not completely solved for me at this moment, whereas I thought it was.  I need to revise and ponder on this for a while.....

 

Maybe this will help ..

We know the false prophet speaks his marvellous words trying to get everybody on his side (especially Christians) before persecuting us and before the 10 kings give their kingdom to him, so as you know, he is like a spokesman at the beginning who is promoting not only himself, but promoting a "new" concept (system) to the peoples of the world at the same time .. well this has to last a certain amount of time from his appearing leading up to his gaining power/control over the first beasts kingdom right .. and I believe he will play out this role for 1010 days. (about 2.7 years)

Next : After that 1010 day period is completed, the 10 kings give him their authority and power and he begins his reign, and this lasts 1290 days wherein is the tribulation of the saints who did not fall for his marvellous words during his rise to power.

So yes, he is only in power for 3 1/2 years, true,  but his rise to power must come first, and I believe that will last for 1010 days before he takes the reigns and gains total control.

Thus his scheming and deceiving leading up to and including his appointment as leader comes to 2300 days total. 

1010 + 1290 = 2300 days.

That is what I have worked out anyways, makes sense to me.

Leave it with ya.

5 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Serving.

Yes, thank you I had that 1335 days in the back of my mind but didn't mention it, so will write it out, and revise.

 

 Daniel 12:11   And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The beast is given only 1290 days to rule and complete the abomination of desolation.  So when this abomination that makes desolate is "set up", mean's it's finished.....right?  Not started.  The FP's temple is completed, and his work is finished.  It doesn't mean he is gone yet, because now God is going to finish him.

 Daniel 12:12   Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So when we come to the 1335 days, (45 days after the 1290 days) Jesus will come for his saints.  This will be the 7th trump.

What must happen is this?

The two witnesses are killed by the beast ending their 1260 day prophesy.  This occurs during the beast's 1290 day of rule....his last day.....the same day he sits in the temple and declares himself god, because he has killed the two prophets that tormented the world.  He has a big celebration, and the world start celebrating with him sending one another gifts......

The 45 day wait starts.  Be patient all ye saints, the Lord is coming for you in 45 days, but this has to happen first;

The Kings of the East cross over the Euphrates to take Jerusalem.  Babylon is taken by the Mede's.  Remember King Belshazzar? Whilst he was celebrating and drinking out of the holy vessels, the Mede's slipped in quietly taking Babylon by surprise.  The same will happen.

Then all the nations will send their troops into Israel and they will start warring.  But this war will be cut short, for the sign of Christ will appear in the sky.  The troops will stop warring each other and regather into Megiddo to war the Lamb. 

All this will happen in the 45 days, in the days of the 6th angel.

 

So this means that the two witnesses will come on to the scene 30 days after False prophet first appears, and not before.  They will be killed just before the 6th angel sounds, because that war starts at the 6th angel.

What do you think?

 

 

YAY !! 

Well done Sister, this is what I spoke of before saying that the 1260 days are to be found within the 1290 days, it is the only way it all makes sense when number crunching and reflecting on the events (plagues etc) taking place in those times and in relation to the 1335th day and the "3rd woe cometh quickly". 

Just one thing though .. don't forget the false prophet comes for 2300 days TOTAL, it is only during his 2nd 3 1/2 term where he gets total control and prepares to release the mark of the beast sometime in that time frame, so he doesn't really "first appear"  here, but he takes total control instead .. you know this already so just making sure i'm not misreading you?

Anyways ..

Praise the Lord.

On 07/09/2017 at 7:56 AM, Sister said:

 

If the 1st woe is the 5th angel, and the 2nd woe the killing of the two witnesses on the 6th angel, my question is, does this 2nd woe happen at the beginning of the 6th angel or at the end?  I can't solve this one yet.  All I know is that the two witnesses are here 30 days short of the 3.5 yrs and are taken then, closer to the end of the tribulation.  That means to me, that they are going to come at the start of tribulation, or just before?  but to be sure we need to go back to Rev 11.

 

Hi Sister,

The answer is determined by the 1335 day prophecy. 

You've almost answered it yourself in your pondering,  you just got the math back to front which is why the answer is eluding you with that line of thinking is all. Just REVERSE that method you were using  and it will fall into place and you WILL come to the answer .. (instead of concentrating on the END of the 3.5 years in regards to the 30 day anomaly, REVERSE your thoughts regarding the 30 days anomaly to the BEGINNING phase of the 3.5 years instead and wallah !! ..

Vague-ish response i know, but I want you to crack it for yourself before I say anymore.

Hi Sister,

I believe that they will also prophesy their own deaths and God raising them too, hence the peoples not allowing them to be buried for those 3 1/2 days, which thing I also believe the two witnesses will associate with Christ's 3 1/2 days in the grave as a further witness against the ungodly.

On a side note, it is also possible that those of the people who give glory to God after that great earthquake just possibly are those reserved Israelite's which earthquake was the final catalyst to their accepting those witnesses as being sent by the Lord and their finally accepting that Jesus was indeed their Messiah as a result of the two witnesses witness .. which thing will finally open their hearts and enable the fulfilment of this final prophecy :  Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. I believe it is the reserved who will speak that which the Lord mentioned in Matthew whereby the others who are not accepted will be of those either killed or cast out .. makes sense to me anyways. 

 

 

On 21/05/2017 at 7:05 AM, Aryeh said:

"But I have this against you, that you have left your first love"

Their "first love" was God Himself. God is TRUTH, they left the TRUTH.

 

On 21/05/2017 at 7:05 AM, Aryeh said:

And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.   Then the woman fled into the wilderness... (Rev. 12:5,6)

The male child is the future Israel, where the saints and the Jewish people united.

This child is Jesus NOT Israel .. 

IF this child were Israel, then by your understanding and in the context you are applying, tell me, WHO is that woman then? 

On 2017-6-11 at 11:11 AM, BobRyan said:

 

Misunderstanding the events that are to be confined inside a Bible timeline is never an valid excuse for slicing and dicing the timeine into shreds and scattering it all over Bible history. Rather the fact that all Bible timelines are contiguous as even the 70 years of Daniel 9:1-7 "must be" (and we all know it) - is the clue that such assumptions about events listed or whether they are  confined within the timeiline

 

1. Finish the transgression  (Israel has a limit before it has filled up its 'measure of guilt') and both Christ and Paul claim they reached it inside that 490 years.
2. Make and end of sins  (Sins under probation - ended. All sins since then are after Israel was rejected as God's means of evangelism. Nation Church)
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity  (The Messiah made the atoning sacrifice 1 John 2:2 within that 490 year timeline)
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness  (Christ came - within that 490 timeline)
5. To seal up vision and prophecy  (All predictive prophecy pertaining to Israel ended inside that 490 limit. "behold your house is left to you desolate" Matt 23)
6. Anoint the most Holy  (Jesus went to heaven as our High Priest Hebrews 8:1 and anointed the Heb 9 most holy place in heaven as our High Priest) within that 490 year timeline

And as Heb 10:4-11 says Christ is the one who takes away sacrifices and offerings - inside that 490 year timeline.

Hi BobRyan,

A good question to ask those opposing you is this: IF the 70 weeks were NOT fulfilled, then WHY did God punish Israel?

Because IF the 70 weeks were deferred into the future, then God would NOT have punished Israel, because they would be considered INNOCENT of failure to fulfil those 6 requirements UNTIL and UNLESS they likewise breached the extension date, exactly like asking for an extension on an outstanding bill, when the extension is given, NO penalty is incurred UNLESS that new extension date is also breached.

 Nobody to date has been able to answer this because the implication is obvious, Israel was punished because they FAILED to complete the 6 requirements laid down by God, and seeing that they were punished, then the obvious answer slaps us in the face, and that is that the 70 weeks DEADLINE was obviously UP, over, done, FULFILLED .. God called in their "DEBT" for failing to meet His deadline .. hence Israels destruction as penalty for that FAILURE.

Which thing means that any deferral into the future is IMPOSSIBLE once the penalty is given, otherwise the penalty would be considered UNJUST .. and we all know that God is NOT unjust.

Regards.  

3 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

A parable does not have a named individual.  The story of Lazarus is not allegorical.

Nor has the rich man faced the ultimate judgment of the Lake of Fire where both body and soul are destroyed.

If you read the Ethiopian book of Enoch, he describes what can be interpreted as holding places for souls in the landscape of Heaven.

.

1. Right.

2. Is this holding place his final judgment?

So where are their souls until after the Millennium?  Hades, a hot, dry place.

This is opposite Paradise - where the thief on Jesus' Right went with Him when they died.

There are places for the souls who have died to be until such time as they are called up.

Ah it is the book of Enoch which has given you this interpretation as I thought.

Well I don't agree with everything in Enoch, like holding places for souls for one (but it is possible, still undecided), but I likewise don't dismiss everything in Enoch either.

So i won't argue the point on that with you .. I have no problem with your millennial points though, we agree on that.

Cheers.