Douay

Why post such garbage? You know that the everlasting part comes after you die. Americans can be move and be Aussies if they want.

Artsylady- How will they be held accountable? What rewards do you speak of? Douay

Which people do those things and yet do not believe in Jesus?

No he wasn't joking. He didn't say and that's all you have to do. Don't you think he still meant that you should follow all of the rest of the rules also. If you believe in him then you should, shouldn't you. Maybe that's what he meant. Douay

So the answer is 'yes' its true that divorced persons are not allowed to take communion? I said that divorced people are treated as second class citizens and was yelled at. Jesus just said "Go and sin no more, your sins are forgiven'. And by the way, that lady was beaten almost to death by her husband. She did stop going to church as well. No, the answer is not yes. The worst that getting a divorce can be, is go to confession and repent, and you are forgiven, and can go to communion. BUT, if you remarry, no dice. I think that there are reasons that the Church allows divorce, like maybe unfaithfulness, abuse and things like that, but that does not mean that you can remarry. If the first marriage was valid, i.e. not annulled, then no new marriage can take place, ever. This idea is no different than when I hear people saying that those who live with a 'life partner' are living in a state of sin and don't have the saving grace of God, etc., etc. In short you are married once in the Catholic Church and that's it. If you get married twice that's when not being able to receive communion comes in, as far as being a second class citizen, I don't know what all you would be referring to as far as treatment goes. Douay

Remember also that 60% of the world's Christians are Catholics. That's 50% percent more Catholics than Protestants. In those diocese, I don't know why the bishops moved them around and didn't get them out of their parishes, and out of all parishes. I think the shortage of priests may be a reason that an innocent bishop would try to work with them and not 'fire' them or whatever course of action would be deemed the best. I think some of those bishops may have been just like those priests but found their way up the ladder for exactly the reason to protect pedophile priests. Sad, but who knows for sure. How many cases one of these pedophiles got away with and how many actually came forward is something that we will never know. Also, the hype surrounding the Catholic problem caused a great many to come forward who wouldn't have otherwise, if a similar situation existed for the Protestant churches I wouldn't be surprised if a great many more victims surfaced. Douay

Artsylady: The Catholic Church takes marriage seriously. We believe that when you agree to until death do you part, and what God has joined let no man divide, and so forth, that those are real vows, and are lifelong. There are reasons for which a marriage can be annulled, and reasons for which the Church will grant a divorce. If the marriage is annulled then it is like it never happened, if one gets a divorce, however, it is not permissible to remarry. If one does remarry then they have committed a sin and are not allowed to recieve communion. This is an ongoing sin. Catholics are not supposed to go to communion in the state of sin. Douay

To Charlie: I wish you hope and wisdom in your search for the truth. My thoughts on the Orthodox are that some of what they do may be more traditional and along the lines of how it is supposed to be in the Church. It does not change the fact that they broke away from the Church that Christ started though. I have a little more info on this from past discussions if you want I can email or pm it to you. Artsylady: I was just trying to point out how widespread this problem is. One in four american women have been sexually assaulted. One in six american men have been sexually assaulted. I find it hard to fathom that a very large percent of this is at the fault of Catholic priests. Why do the schools cover it up, as stated in that article? Why doesn't the press throw a screaming tyrade about that? I personally know at least 12 people who were sexually assaulted in school by different teachers, and I'm from a small town, graduating class of about 50. I know of noone molested by a clergy member of any persuasion. Look at the number of priests involved in such activity versus the number of priests in the U.S. Compare that with the general population. It isn't that bad when you look at the facts. Keep it scientific and let emotions go and you get accurate portrayals of real situations, not emotional or press hyped results. Douay

Found that on the internet for you, hope you don't send your kids to school, that's much worse than sending them to church.

Winston-Salem State University associate professor Dan Wishnietsky found that 13.5 percent of North Carolina high school graduates said they

how can you say that the pope is not infallible, yet hold infallibility for yourselves?

no artsy lady, I just don't like repeating myself. I never said the Pope was infallible. I didn't leave, I am a busy guy. I don't have time to answer the same question day after day after day. It got to where I was just cutting and pasting the same replies I had made before to the same people about the same questions. such as "I'm still waiting. I want to know whay a Catholic thinks they have to confess to a priest for forgiveness, and why they do not just pray directly to God themselves." You're still waiting? "Douey seemed for a moment like he was ready to admit the Pope was fallable." first off its Douay with an 'a'. should i go back and answer this whole thing again? what about tomorrow are you going to forget what i said? do i then repost the same thing. come on people, you aren't really trying to converse here, get a diary to write all of this tripe down in. the way communication works is you ask a question and then nobody responds because your question is wrong? no, somebody corrects your question. then you ask the same wrong question again. it goes unanswered. your question gets corrected, you ignore it. then go around saying nobody will answer your question. i'm confused, i thought you had to ask a relevant question to get an answer. mystifying . douay

So, what you are telling me is that Jesus Christ came here to die for our sins in the most terrible of fashions and leave some haphazard disorganized religion behind? Whars dat in der Bible? Douay

Where would Jesus be without religion?

Artsylady- LIAR!!! No, Catholics don't proclaim themselves saints while they are alive, good point. Only Protestants can do that. Your church made that up. And this makes the case against many of the things said in reference to Peter not acting high and mighty like they say he should have. Oh and don't forget that this was 1970 years ago, so maybe all of the fanfare about the pope today is due to the good things they have done in the past (not that bad things could not have been done by them). Are you trying to make some point here? Do you feel that some epiphany has befallen you and you are sent here with revelations? Douay

How does what a priest did factor into this teaching of the Church (albeit misunderstood)? WWJD- what would jou do? Pull out a 45 from your desk drawer and blow him away? How do you KNOW what he did anyway? Douay

BTW: How's this work with your "Infalliable Pope" theory? You say he can do no wrong either..... You sir, are a liar, I never said that. Douay

Me too. I might listen to the teachings of others but only if it's based on the scriptures do I believe it. And even then, as we all know, the scriptures are subject to interpretation. And as far as those teachers go: "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". They will make mistakes. I guess the Catholic church's bible must read "All but the Pope and future popes have sinned". Does it say that?

Why would He say examine yourself? Is he a raving lunatic? After you declare yourself saved the Holy Spirit permeates your being and you can do no wrong, why on earth would He say otherwise? He knows this to be truth, doesn't He? Douay

I wrote: Artsylady's reply: That IS scripture, practically verbatim. Douay

You didn't give any scriptural support for this. How about this? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" There are many others as you very well know by now. You also didn't answer the second question regarding parents and a fatherly figure. Were you good at dodge ball? So how do you know if you will ever be saved? Maybe you should go to a foreign country where it is illegal to preach the gospel, start preaching on the street and become a martyr, like the disciples did. But who knows if they'll be saved? Of course, the Catholic church has already decided who the saints are and we assume they're saved. Doesn't that kind of blow your argument? Who is are these men to decide. God is the only judge. God is the only judge. Didn't you blow your own argument? Douay

Thanks JesusisLord, I seemed to remember a whole lot of betrothing and not any marrying, that clears it up. Douay

Of course we can, and I have. Perhaps you have something to add in the topic "Turning over rocks"? Douay

I am the one who answered before and still answer A. We are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. B is contradictory to what the Bible says, you are not supposed to proclaim yourself saved, that is up to the judgement of God when you stand before Him, Paul made that clear enough. He said that he was not saved. You must endure to the end. Douay

Sure, find it, but I don't necessarily trust ancient manuscripts. Some of them are complete crap - example - Homer. I don't think Homer was trying to author scripture(?) and think a few things he said may be more historically accurate than some give him credit for. I agree, though, that was probably the gospel of Peter or Thomas, or some other GNOSTIC gospel, and I wouldn't trust them too much. Where does it say in the Bible that Joseph and Mary actually married? Douay