Katholish

Dan (dgolvach), Yes. Purgatory is a place of purgation where all of the souls of the just that are saved and will eventually go to Heaven go to be rid of their attachment to sin (if any) and the temporal punishment due for sins already forgiven. There is repeated referrence in the Scriptures of a need for purification before a person can enter Heaven. I will just give one here. 1 John 1: 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all iniquity. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar: and his word is not in us. However, the most explicit referrence to Purgatory in the Sacred Scriptures is in the Second Book of Machabees. Of course though, when Luther was trying to teach against indulgences, he naturally had to attack the idea of purgatory. Of course this would have been near impossible with such explicit Scripture to refute him, so he simply took it out of his Bible. (Which he was also tempted to do with the Epistle of James because it says that man is justified by Good works and not by faith alone, thank goodness that he did not remove this epistle as well) 2 Machabees 12: 38 So Judas having gathered together his army, came into the city Odollam: and when the seventh day came, they purified themselves according to the custom, and kept the sabbath in the same place. 39 And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers. 40 And they found under the coats of the slain, some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain. 41 Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden. 42 And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. 43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection. 44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) 45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. 46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. He did not receive Holy Communion certainly, but I would probably say that he received Baptism of Desire. Christ is the Head of the Church, however, as He ascended into Heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father, and no longer walks among us in bodily form, there is need of a visible head for the visible Church. The care of Christ's flock sometimes requires an active role which the successors of St. Peter have provided (though insofar as disciplinary matters have been concerned they had failed to do as good a job as one might have wished at a few points in history), this is way Christ told St. Peter to feed His sheep shortly before He ascended to the Father.

I know, three pages in as many days is a substantial response.

Dave (dwinkjr), Yes that is true, when I said unbaptized I meant either by sacramentally by water, or by Desire, or Blood, I was just not specific there. I had mentioned this very briefly earlier in a response to Botz: I wrote:

Serotta, First, let me define sin. It is an utterance, deed, desire, or omission contrary to the eternal law. Some sins are more serious then others because they constitute a greater deviation from the eternal law. There are three criteria to make a sin Mortal. 1) It has to be a very grave matter 2) The person must have full knowledge that the act is contrary to God's law 3) The person must fully consent to the act, freely exercising his will A venial sin is a less serious matter, or when one of the other criteria is not sufficiently met. 1 John 5: 16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask: and life shall be given to him who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death. For that I say not that any man ask. 17 All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death. As for a list of mortal sins, I could not give you a comprehensive list, but here are some that St. Paul mentions. 1 Corinthians 6: 9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers: 10 Nor the effeminate nor liers with mankind nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor railers nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God.

Serotta, The Greek word used in Luke 1:28 is kecharistomene, and although I am not an ancient Greek scholar myself, it is my understanding that this word means more literally "You who have been made agreeable to God". This rendering seems to be in even for agreement with the idea that Mary was made special before the Announciation. We usually translate it as "Full of Grace", which also implies that she is not sinful, and makes a person wonder that if she is full of grace, how can this be consistant with her having Original Sin? As for Romans 3:23, I would be cautious of interpreting this in a way that leaves room for no exceptions. We know that Christ did not sin, yet was human. Also there is a distinction between the state of sin, and active sinning. To commit a sin takes an act of the Will, whereas all men are born into a state of sin called Original Sin. We shouldn't interpret Romans to mean that every person has committed actual sin. Take for instance a little child who dies at the age of 3 months. Have they commited a sin? No, they have not, but they were still nevertheless born in a state of sin, but I hope you can see the difference.

Dr. Luke, Abraham was of the one true Faith although he lived in a different stage of revelation. The Catholic Church is not a group that broke off from Judaism though, but rather, the Old Testament and the New are part of the same Faith. One of the earliest fathers of the Church mentions this well. St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Magnesians (circa 107AD): Abraham was just as it tells us in the Scriptures. James 2: 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou that faith did cooperate with his works and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. Even if Abraham was just though, we do know that he could not have entered Heaven until the Sacrifice on Calvary when Christ opened the Gates of Heaven, and descended among the dead and brought the souls of the just to Heaven. You seem to be asking what implications this has on something that I have already said. You had better tell me what you think it means, because as it is, I cannot answer the question. I would be remiss if in a Catholic Q/A topic, I did not fully state the Church's teachings, and one of them is that the Catholic Church is the One True Church. I have explained what this means in detail above. The Lord's Commission was given to the Aposltes, and His Church. You seem to imply though that even though there are substantial differences of doctrine, even in very important areas, that we are all one, that those who disagree are still "with us". However, if one group holds different doctrines from the Church that Christ founded, they are heretical, and according to the Scriptures... 2 John 10: 9 Whosoever revolteth and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you. The word Catholic still does mean universal, and that is the sense in which the Catholic Church uses it. The Church is both visible and invisible though, it is not merely some nebulous grouping of all "believers".

The woolen scapular was probably derived from the habits of religious orders who wear much larger scapulars as part of their dress. It has been called "the Yoke of Christ" as it is symbolic of a person consecrating their life to God. It is pious tradition (with a lowercase "t", for this is not an infallible teaching of the Church) that Our Lady appeared to St. Simon Stock in England in the 13th Century and gave the brown scapular to his order of Carmalites as a special sign of protection and intercession. Our Lady supposedly said to St. Simon that whomever faithfully wears the scapular will not suffer eteneral fire. However, the historical authenticity of that quote is not that firm. The scapular is certainly not some sort of magical protection that if a person weard they cannot go to Hell. If a person is unbaptized or dies in a state of Mortal Sin, they will go to Hell, and if a person dies having Faith, Hope, and Charity (a state of Sanctifying Grace) they will be saved. There are graces and indulgences associated with the scapular though if worn for the right reasons. I myself wear one all of the time.

Catholics are not required to enroll their children in Catholic schools per se, but they are required to give their children a Catholic education. The Code of Canon Law: "CCD" stands for the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine.

Botz, you asked a lot of good questions, but I don't just want to leave you with yes or no answers, but to give a little explaination of exactly what it means and why the Church holds the doctrine that she does, so this is going to be a very long post. Yes. Let me first define what the Catholic Church means by the Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. We mean that the Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God, and in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from every stain of original sin. Luke 1: 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. This verse was not interpreted by all early Christians to mean that Mary was conceived without sin, but it certainly was by some. Even if is not stated explicitly, this verse is viewed as Scriptural support for that understanding. It also helps to understand the Doctrine of Recapitulation as expressed by St. Paul. Ephesians 1: 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the remission of sins, according to the riches of his, grace, 8 Which hath superabounded in us, in all wisdom and prudence, 9 That he might make known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure, which he hath purposed in him, 10 In the dispensation of the fulness of times, to re-establish all things in Christ, that are in heaven and on earth, in him. St. Paul speaks of Christ remaking all things in Himself, the human race is given a new beginning in Grace, which is also why St. Paul refers to Christ as the "last Adam". 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, the firstfruits of them that sleep: 21 For by a man came death: and by a man the resurrection of the dead. 22 And as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. ... 44 It is sown a natural body: it shall rise a spiritual body. If there be a natural body, there is also a spiritual body, as it is written: 45 The first man Adam was made into a living soul; the last Adam into a quickening spirit. 46 Yet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural: afterwards that which is spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, earthly: the second man, from heaven, heavenly. One of the Early Church Fathers shows how this Doctrine applies to Mary. St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Adversus Haereses, Book V, Chapter 19: Yes. The short answer is that we pray (ask the intercession of) to the saints for the same reason that we ask other holy people on earth to pray for us. We can ask the intercession of the righteous on earth, indeed there is explicit evidence from Scripture for this. James 5: 16 Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much. It is my claim, and that of the Church, that there is no impediment to prohibit this asking of intercession from continuing among the saints in Heaven after they die. There are three arguements presented against it though, sometimes acting alone or in concert. 1) The saints in Heaven cannot pray. 2) The saints in Heaven do not care about the faithful on earth. 3) The saints in Heaven cannot be aware of our request for intercession. If none of these objections are valid, then it is clear that the saints in Heaven retain their ability and desire to pray for us on Earth and can hear and respond to our requests for intercession. For there is enough Scriptural evidence to show that the righteous can intercede for us, this does not need to be proven, thus further evidence, either from Scripture or Sacred Tradition is not needed to support the doctrine, for it is clearly stated in Scripture provided that death provides no barrier to its continuance. 1) Can the saints in Heaven pray? Clearly prayer includeds praise and thanksgiving, two things which clearly are proper for a saint in Heaven. Saints offer constant praise to God in Heaven for they behold Him face to face. Intercession is also a part of prayer, and they would certainly be capable of this part as well as thanksgiving and praise, but the question arises whether or not they would use this ability, and that brings us to objection #2. 2) The saints in Heaven are clearly capable of helping the faithful on Earth, for as the Scripture states: the "prayer of a just man availeth much", and the saints in Heaven are certainly just and can pray. Would they exercise their ability to help us though? I think that the answer is clearly yes. All of the faithful in Christ make up one Body as the Scripture states: Ephesians 4: 16 From whom the whole body, being compacted and fitly joined together, by what every joint supplieth, according to the operation in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body, unto the edifying of itself in charity. Thus the Body of Christ is united in charity, each of the parts care for the others. Is the arm indifferent to the health of the foot? No, but both are concerned with the health of the whole. Thus the saints in Heaven do care about and would help the faithful on Earth if they had the ability, which they do as argued in response to objection #1. For the saints are conformed to Christ, and has Christ loves all men and wishes them to be saved, for He, being the Good Shepard would leave the 99 behind and search after the one that is lost. So the saints care for Christ's flock because Christ cares for it. The saints would pray for us then even if they cannot hear us, because they know that we are in need of prayers and that their own prayers availeth much before the throne of God. 3) Can the saints in Heaven hear the petitions of the faithful on Earth? The arguement is that the saints are not omniscient and therefore cannot hear all of the prayers or indeed any of the prayers and petitions of the faithful asking them to intercede for them. Firstly, let us turn aside for a moment and look at the angels. The angels and the saints in Heaven both lack omniscience, for indeed only God Himself has that attribute. However, the angels can hear the prayers of the faithful on Earth, and the Scriptures even record instances when the faithful have addressed the angels and have spoken with them. Psalm 102: 19 The lord hath prepared his throne in heaven: and his kingdom shall rule over all. 20 Bless the Lord, all ye his angels: you that are mighty in strength, and execute his word, hearkening to the voice of his orders. 21 Bless the Lord, all ye his hosts: you ministers of his that do his will. 22 Bless the Lord, all his works: in every place of his dominion, O my soul, bless thou the Lord. Matthew 18: 10 See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. Revelation 8: 3 And another angel came and stood before the altar, having a golden censer: and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints, upon the golden altar which is before the throne of God. 4 And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel. If the angels can hear the prayers and petitions of the faithful, why not the saints in Heaven? Neither are omniscient, both spiritual, and both in communion with God, serving before His Almighty throne. It is also fitting for their happiness to have news and knowledge of the fate of their loved ones, for the love that they bore for them on Earth, surely shall not cease when they are in Heaven, but has St. Monica loved her son St. Augustine on Earth, she will continue to love him in Heaven. Truly the saints in Heaven can pray for the faithful on Earth. Truly they desire to do so. Truly just as the angels, the saints can hear our petitions and present them before the Throne of God. That is why Catholics pray to Mary and the saints. Yes, the Catholic Church has always taught that "Outside the Church there is no salvation". Now, that phrase can be easily misinterpreted so I will explain exactly what we mean. But first of all, why do we say this phrase to begin with? As Christians, we know that Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him. The Acts of the Apostles has a great quote. Acts 4: 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said to them: Ye princes of the people and ancients, hear. 9 If we this day are examined concerning the good deed done to the infirm man, by what means he hath been made whole: 10 Be it known to you all and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him, this man standeth here before you, whole. 11 This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved. 13 Now seeing the constancy of Peter and of John, understanding that they were illiterate and ignorant men, they wondered: and they knew them that they had been with Jesus. St. Cyprian of Carthage explains the way in which the Early Church always believed the Church to be necessary for salvation and explains why. St. Cyprian of Carthage, Treatise on the Unity of the Church, 251AD: The question thus becomes, who according to the Catholic Church, is part of the Church that they may be saved? It is by Faith and Baptism that a person enters into communion with the Church. A validly baptized person is made a child of God and heir to Heaven, and the Sanctifying Grace lost by Adam's sin is restored. Baptism is absolutely necessary to be part of the Church. All of those who are unbaptized are lost. However, there are three kinds of Baptism, of water (the sacrament) but also by blood or desire. Thereby even the Incas before the arrival of Christopher Columbus had a chance to be saved, even if it wasn't a good chance. Just as Christ desires all men to be saved, He has esblished means by which all men have that chance. (You you wanted, I could go into this issue of Baptism more. I know that I am not explaining it much at all and it is important to the discussion.) There are three bonds with which a person is tied to the Church, and we can us these and apply them to different groups to understand the Church's relationship with them. 1) Unity of Doctrine (Profession of One Faith received from the Apostles) 2) Unity of Worship (The common celebration of Divine worship and the sacraments) 3) Unity of Governance (Apostloic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God's family.) Only members of the visible Catholic Church under the leadership of Christ and His vicar on earth fully meet all three of these bonds of unity. The Eastern Orthodox churches share Doctrine and Worship, but not Governance (They have apostolic succession, but do not recognize the primacy of Peter's successor among the bishops). Thus they share an imperfect communion with the Church and lack little in restoring their relationship to full communion. The Protestant groups mostly share Doctrine, but there are significant differences in some cases, so this is not fully shared. Worship and the sacraments are only partially shared as the Protestants maintained Baptism (the most critical) and marriage among the sacraments, but deined the other 5 (for the most part, there maybe certain exceptions). There is almost no sharing of governance, the only possible thing that might pass as shared authority is the acknowledgement of the Holy Scriptures among all Protestants. Validly baptized Protestants thus share some communion with the Church by nature of Baptism, but it is a vastly imperfect communion. A member of the Church, or a person sufficiently in communion with her though, while being a requirement, is not the same as being saved. Catholics can go to Hell just like anyone else can. What is essential to the issue is being in the State of Grace when a person dies. This state is entered into at Baptism, but can be lost by any grieviously sinful act (Technically, a Mortal Sin has three requirements, grave matter, full consent, and sufficient knowledge). No one can rightly jugde the state of another's soul, so a precise statement of who is saved and who is not is not possible, but whomever dies in the State of Sanctifying Grace (in communion with God and His Church in other words) is saved.

JohnP, No, but I wish that I was. I usually put the link in my profile because I use it so often as a resource and like to recommend it to others as such.

To many people who are not Catholic, the Catholic Faith sometimes seems confusing. There is usually at least some point in which a non-Catholic may ask, Do they really believe that? Well, I wish to give you an opportunity to ask. It has also been my experience that most non-Catholics have some misconceptions of what Catholics believe, sometimes rather serious ones. So, please feel free if you had any questions. Or wanted to know why the Church believes as she does.