Homosearching

His obedience was a manifestation of his faith in God. God made an odd request of him to spend a tremendous amount of time doing a seemingly absurd thing, yet he trusted God and did what He said. Everyone around him watched as he built this huge arc, yet no one else apparently asked to join him, or built an arc of their own. It was faith that preceded his works of obedience, and therefore it was his faith that saved him. Ultimately our actions are a reflection of what we believe. In the same way I can claim that I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, but if I don't act in a manner that expresses that He is the Lord of my life then I really don't have faith in Him. My faith in Him is manifested in my obedience to Him. It is not the intellectual knowledge of Him, or the fact that I am obedient to Him that saves me, but is my faith that He is who He is, and has done what He has done that saves me, which is manifested by my actions. Thus, I am saved by His grace, through my faith, which produces outward signs of my faith. Mr SE My question to you then is that my works are needed because I have to show to God that I believe. I am saved by grace because I have not done anything to deserve the gift of Christ. but if I don't obey the teaching of Christ then my faith is vain. Is it not like some one gives to me out of the kindness of their heart medicine that will cure me of a fatal illness. If I never take that medicine it that act of kindness (or Grace if you will) is of no avail. It didn't do me anything. We know that Noah had faith in God because he builded the Ark. Faith without works is dead. That is faith without obedience is of no value it is vain. And that expression of faith has to be done on a daily bases. Faith with out works is not salvation. Noah would not of been saved if he did not build the Ark. Just like I am not saved if I don't work out my salvation with fear and trembling. In other words do the works that God has ordained that we should walk in. Ephesians 2:10. You said and I quote" It is not the intellectual knowledge of Him, or the fact that I am obedient to Him that saves me, but is my faith that He is who He is, and has done what He has done that saves me, which is manifested by my actions. If I don't have actions then I don't have faith. We are not save by faith only, in James 2:24 see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. It was faith that moved Noah and work that builded the Ark and so escape the flood you need both for salvation.

It is a Messianic reference to Jesus, yes. It was also the first city where the Tabernacle was built, in the Promised Land. Huh???? :node: :emit-questioned: Huh??? Could you rephrase this one, and the previous question? I am at a loss as to what you are asking. Actually, no. The Bible give us a litmus test for who is a Christian and who is not. A true Christian has a new heart, a new set of desires a new appetite for God, and a new attitude. A true Christian is regenerated, and his/her heart is set on the things of God. Yet, I am not talking about that. I am saying that you cannot be a True Christian, filled with Spirit, serving God everyday, experience His presence, firing on all eight cylinders with the throttle wide open, and then wake up one morning and just decide out of the blue to apostasies, fornicate, and worship the devil. Cardcaptor is saying that such is possible, and I am saying that a person who can walk away from God and not look back, and just flat out not care, never had the Lord to start with. I have, had you bothered to read my previous posts, admitted that there are Christians who in a time of discouragement, and despair, walk away. Sometimes, the loss of a child, or spouse, or the infidelity of a spouse, or divorce, or something else can hurt so much that it has the potential to shipwreck their faith. That happens. That is where I say that the grace and compassion of God is most needed. There is a difference between someone who falls in a time of extraordinary pain, and someone who simply preferred to spend their time gratifying their sinful lusts. No Jesus was talking about a group who received the word with joy but it was the cares of this world and lusts of other things that choked out the Word that was planted. That does not necessarily refer to a falling away or losing hope. We all get distracted with the daily cares of life, from time to time. I have a study I have done on the four categories of Christians mentioned in that parable in Mark. The specific category you reference is category three. That is where most Christians are. We receive the Word of God, it takes root, but we get distracted. We get too many irons in the fire, and pretty soon the Word takes a back seat to everything else, and that which was planted never flourishes because we are now too busy to nourish the Word that was already implanted. Even Church work, and ministry can actually keep us from the Word of God. We can get so caught up in Church activities and mission trips, and special events, that we actually forget about God. Those things meant to help us serve the Lord end up causing us to be the antithesis of what we are supposed to be. Shiloh I have read your previous post that is why I am asking you these question. I will try to ask this one question again. In Hebrews 6 it talks about ones who had obey the principles of the doctrine of Christ but they did not go on to perfection because it says in verse 4 the it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, ( in other words the had received the Holy Spirit), And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. This passage seem obvious that these Christian who had the Holy Spirit fell away, they lost their salvation and in verse 7 & 8) say their end is to be burned. By this scripture it would seem that osas is not true and that a person has to be obedient or work out his salvation until the day he or she dies. What is your understanding of these verse?

I am not arguing about OSAS. I am not a pure OSASer to be truthful. My point is not that if you commit one of those sins, you are not saved. My point is that it simply does not jive with Scripture to say that a true Christian can just up and start living in sin with no compunction whatsoever. There is a litmus test for what a true Christian is. Actually, if you did some real study, you would find that it was a euphemism for the Pastor. Well yes and no. Today it is just the manner in which it is carried out is different. The United States, for example, has not gotten as bad as Greece in the first century, but we are on our way. Every year, leaders in our society push the envelope a little more. While human depravity has never changed since the beginning of man's fall, some societies have been more civilized and more restrained than others. No, that is not what I am saying at all. I am simply pointing out what it would have meant to the hearers, and the author in the day it was written. I am not saying that it does not apply to us. In fact, it applies to us in a very real way in our post modern world. Today we are being told that we should not consider homosexuality, b-sexuality, sex out of wedlock, as "sins." Many today, especially in the homosexual community are pushing, not for tolerance but for absolute acceptance of their lifestyle by the Church, and are demanding equal opportunity to serve as ordained ministers. We are being told that we are prejudiced if we do not accept them and their lifestyle as becoming of the Christian faith. We are told that we need to expunge from our Churches and from our Bibles, any mention of homosexuality as being sinful and an abomination before God. It is exactly the kind of thing we are being faced with today, that Paul was afraid of. What is more, Paul's fears were valid given that many of these people had not been out of that lifestyle for long, and it was very conceivable that they could fall to wrong influences by false teachers telling them that fornication, idolatry, adultery is not really a sin at all. Paul had good cause to be concerned. Many of the churches he established were right in the middle of the "lion's den," so to speak. They were right there, in the thick of it all, and susceptible to all kinds sinful influences. This was especially true of churches in coastal cities where they would be exposed to the gods and religions of other societies due to their many shipping ports, and contact in trading with other nations. You have to understand that the world, both Christians and sinners, will stand before God on judgment day and either convict us of justify us. Well as it bears on Salvation, I have already been judged, and judged righteous. I have been declared legally right before God. When I stand before the Lord, I will be judged with regard to my reward. My works will be tested by fire, and that which remains as gold, will determine the degree of my reward. You don't really understand OASES people, and you have no business casting judgment on them. Frankly, your handling of Scripture shows a great deal of ignorance regarding hermeneutics, especially in the area the historical/cultural context in which Scripture is couched. If you could, in your mind, walk away from God tomorrow and not look back, then you are not saved. If you really think that tomorrow you could begin a life of unrepentant, aberrant sin without any remorse, or sorrow at hurting the heart of God, if it would not make your heart and head ache just to THINK about doing such a thing, then you cannot be qualified as a Christian. That is my point. A true Christian simply cannot carry on as you fantasize, because of a regenerated heart. Some questions for Shiloh. Did not Shiloh in the old testament refer to Christ? And what about Hebrew 6 where they cruify Christ afresh because the went back into their sins are you say then they never really had Christ and salvation? And if not how could they have put him to a open shame and be renew again to repentance seeing they had falling away? Do you make yourself out to be the really Shiloh who judges people and says that they never really had it? I do know people who were in there and striving put did fall away because of hard trails and persuction in their lives and they left. Wasn't the parables of the seed and the sower teach us about that and because of trails and persecution and the love for this world they lost their hope?

Again, for the record, I am not, nor have ever been, of the OSAS belief. The above statement is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. Are you a parent? I am and let me tell you something, I am not going to disown my child because he's going to "test the waters" and see what he can get by with. I am still going to love him and I will be waiting for him with open arms when he makes enough of a mess of his life that he realizes that I was right! I don't reject him. I may leave him alone (if he was older) to make some mistakes to prove a point, but I'm not going to reject him! I know that something like this is hard to swallow, but it is true: Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Ephesians 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Whether a Christian or a sinner we all fall under these scriptures. Do you read all scripture in a vacuum like that? Tell me, was it Abraham's obedience to God that saved him? What about Noah, was it his obedience in building the ark which saved him also? If God discipline's His own (according to Hebrews 12), how then can disobedience lead to disownership? Was it not Noah's obedience that saved him? Could he just say I believe you God and then not build the Ark? And would not that disobedience lead to his death and the death of all mankind?

My question to all of you who have reply to this question If it was not important why did God but it in the bible and why did the Apostles Baptize everywhere they when. I read A lot of opinions saying that baptism is an outward sign but no scriptures to back it up. Even one quoted Act 10 where they said can we forbid water. Why would they say that if it was not nessary. It seems obvious that in that account they were expressing a need to be baptized. Also didn't Christ rebuke the Pharisee because they did things to be seen of men. Matthew 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, If baptism was just a outward sign isn't that going against what Christ is teaching us here that we don't want our Christian life to be just something that men see. Again why would Christ command it and the Apostle teach it everywhere they went if it was not nessary for salvation?