piston priest

That "version" is explained to be a bad circumstance for the human race throughout the Holy Bible. Are you saying that God changed His mind because He was caught by surprise? There is no "Plan B". God knows and has always known what would happen when man was given free will ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think God changed His mind. That is why the fall was a good thing. It gave men free will. By saying it was bad, that means God did not expect it and had to change the rules. There was no plan B. It was God's will that Adam and Eve eat of the forbidden fruit. Otherwise, mortality would have never entered the world.

first of all I am not "anti-mormon" nor do I consider myself an enemy of your "church" I am "pro-truth" and that is my only concern...what is true. But now that we can correctly interpret ancient eygptian writings, we know that Joseph Smith didn't get a single word right. This is the very foundation of your "church" Since your "church" claims to be a newer revelation than our "church", it would seem that your "church" would be able to stand the same scrutiny our "church" does. But instead you circle the wagons and refuse to answer the objections. not good, bro, not good...."if" you are seeking the truth instead of self-justification. I did not mean Anti-Mormon in a derogatory way. If you do not agree with the Mormon faith, that technically makes you anti-mormon because you oppose them. But it was probably a bad choice of words on my part.

So it does not bother you at all that the LDS essentially practices a form of Freemasonry? Next, do you as Mormon believe that Joseph Smith Jr., Brigham Young, and all the presidents of the LDS, are prophets in the same sense that the prophets of the Old testament were? Are they different somehow? Also, do you believe that their teachings are always on-par with the Bible, and should be treated as the gospel truth? Like I said, I don't know much about freemasonry or why people think it is bad. I also don't know what practices my church has that are the same as the free masons. As far as the prophets go, yes, they are similar to the Old Testament prophets. Even though their teachings sometimes conflict with the Bible, I still believe them to be servants of God. I've been told that what the prophet says should be considered as gospel, but I don't necessarilly feel that way. Joseph Smith once said that a prophet is only a prophet when acting as such. This means that if a prophet is not in the right spiritual mindset to receive divine revelations, he may get them wrong.

Piston, I'd like to request that you first address the post I made here: http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?s=&s...ndpost&p=530424 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not really sure how to respond to them. I don't even know if it is true. If it is, I don't think it's anything to fret over. Christianity has stolen various practices from other religions. December 25, Christmas for example. That date was originally a pagan holiday. The fish symbol was also pagan. The cliche picture of God with a white beard and rippling muscles was taken from Zeus of Greek Mythology. Who knows, maybe the freemasons had some things right, but I honestly don't know, so I might be answering this wrong.

Not in heaven, in prison. All that verse in 1 Peter says is He went to proclaim a message there. It says nothing that He preached for their salvation. As I understood it, He told them of the victory over sin. In fact, the greek word means to herald, announce, not preach as in evangelize. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Spirit prison is where those that have not had the opportunity to hear the gospel on earth can hear it in the hereafter. And if that word does mean announce, rather than preach, I'm not sure it does, then it is a mistranslation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Or the real answer, you follow a religion that is based on false doctrine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Or, we are following the real gospel, and you are blinded to the truth.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No one can keep the commandments 100% of the time. That is why Jesus had to come to save us from our sins. Those who stumble and fall, while trying to live as He wants are forgiven and continue to grow in Him. Those who never repent from their habitual sinful lifestyle, never grow etc, well one has to wonder if they ever truly believed in Him to begin with. Do you keep the commandments 100% of the time? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exactly. This proves my point. You must repent of your sins for forgiveness. If you are automatically saved, why do you need to ask to be cleansed of your sins? And if you say that those that fail to keep the commandments all the time, then they are not Christian, that means that good works is what makes you Christian. And since you can not be saved unless you are, in a round about way, even you believe in doing good works.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The one thing that instantly sprang to mind is, you pulled the list off the internet and claim they are contradictions, this is badly structured reasoning on your behalf my friend. Because this says to me you are following another persons reasoning rather than seeking the answers from the source (The Bible) itself, this means that, you personally have no knowledge of the alleged contradictions you listed. It is sort of like following a blind man. Nonetheless, if you still wish to go through your list I'm more than happy to. I would suggest though that you grab a Bible first, i'm sure if you cannot bring one into your home, then you can go to a local library and look at one, or as you have internet access, you can also read them online. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am familiar with most of them, I just couldn't remember what verses they were found in. I went on the net to find out and I came across this list, then I just copied and pasted. I didn't have time to look at every one of them, by I knew about a lot of them.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Why are you a Mormon? Were you born one? Grew up in Utah? What made you think it was "christian"? Who is Jesus to you and what does that mean to the way you live ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am Mormon because the Holy Spirit has revealed to me that it is the true religion. I converted when I was 11, so I'm not a lifer, I'm only 19 now. Never been to Utah. I know that it is Christian becasue we are followers of Christ who try to live a Christ like lifestyle, and we desperately want to please the Lord. Jesus is God's literal son and the redeemer of all mankind. His atonement makes it possible for us to overcome spiritual death and eventually dwell in the presence of the our Heavenly Father.

She can try all she want to "get through to me" but false teachings can never make me forego the truth. Plus, I've answered most of AJs posts, not everyone because I have better things to do than run down people's religion every minute of every day. I am also a fairly slow typer, so trying to answer everything thoroughly would take hours. Plus, AJ's explanation of what a true christian is is false. I don't think anyone has the right to determine who and who isn't Christian. And I resent the statement that Mormons are closed minded. In fact, one of our Articles of Faith says something to the effect of "We believe that man has the right to freedom of religion. Let him worship, how, what and when he wants." That is more than what I can say for most evangelists with their "You can't be Christian because your beliefs are different than mine, so you must be wrong."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Piston, Please understand that I say this without any malice or personal acrimony, but you do realize that mormons are not "christians" because your "Jesus" is a different one, right? Jesus and Satan are not brothers in the Holy Bible. Eating the apple in the Garden of Eden was a "bad" thing in the Holy Bible. And now that we know how to translate Eygptian hyroglyphics (sp?) it is evident that Joseph Smith completely lied about his "vision" explaining the texts he gave to you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We believe in the same Jesus, just different things about him. I don't believe the one you worship is the right one either, so we're even. I'll admit, I don't think the Bible ever says or even hints that Jesus and Satan are brothers. But, like I've been saying, modern revelations allows us to know things that other faiths do not. You also said that eating the fruit was a bad thing. In order to accept that version, one must assume that God is not all knowing and because of what Adam and Eve did, He was forced to make changes to his plan. I've heard people say that his translation does not match up, but I don't know what anti-mormons to believe. Some say he did not translate them right, others say the parchments don't even exist. Enemies of the church can't get their story straight.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The bible tells us to turn our backs on sin. We dont have the luxury of being saved and then doing what we want. Not for salvation, but because we love the Lord. A big difference. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, what happens to someone that has accepted the Lord, but doesn't keep any of the commandments. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your beliefs teach that it is necessary to baptize dead people in order to secure your own salvation. It also states that such a baptism for dead people will save them. This is not scriptural. Salvation is never dependent on baptizing dead people, nor does a dead person have a chance to be redeemed later on through a baptism for the dead. Your beliefs misuse that one scripture, which discusses resurrection and why we believe it, see verse 19, rather than the spin mormons have put on it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WE don't teach that we must baptize the dead in order to gain our own salvation. So what do you make of it when it mentions baptism for the dead? There is also a verse in 1st Peter that says Jesus went and preached to the spirits in heaven. This corresponds with the baptism for the dead belief that they can learn in the hereafter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ False prophet as I showed much earlier in the thread. BUt lets look at what the bible says about genealogy. 1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. So why would the Lord contradict Himself, telling us to avoid it, and giving it to you? Which do you believe, the bible or your doctrines? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Either the Bible was mistranslated, or more likely, those verses advise to not participate in foolish geneaology, or things that will cause strife. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually that is not correct. Your verse doesnt state that one must be ordained of God by the laying on of hands by someone in authority. Altho mormon doctrine states that man cannot act legally unless vested with the priesthood, in fact the bible tells us quite differently. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why don't you check out these verses? Mark 3:14-19 John 15:16 Acts 13:1-3 Numbers 27:18-23 Exodus 40:12-15 2 Tim 1:6 1 Tim 4:14 2 Tim 1:6 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, but that is contingent on two things, one, being sealed by the spirit by the laying on of hands by proper authority as the Bible says, and two, by accepting the true gospel, which you don't.

Hello, Anne. I'll post a list of contradictions. I haven't had the time to look them all up to see exactly what they say, I just pulled this list off the internet. Some of them may be taken out of context. So don't hold it against me if some are. Remember, I didn't compile this list. ) King Soloman's temple had two thousand (1 KINGS 7:26) or three thousand (2 CHRONICLES 4:5) baths? 2) Was John the Baptist Elijah as Jesus claimed (MATTHEW 17:11-13) or not (JOHN 1:19-21)? 3) Was Jesus the only one to ascend to Heaven (JOHN 3:13) or not (2 KINGS 2:11)? 4) Did the whole world have one language (GENESIS 11:1) or many (GENESIS 10:31)? 5) Were some of the worlds animals saved during the flood (GENESIS 9:9-10) or did God destroy all living creatures (GENESIS 8:21)? 6) How can God smell (GENESIS 8:21) if He is not a physical being? Why did God have to come down from Heaven to see the tower of Babel (GENESIS 11:5)? How could Jacob (Isreal) wrestle with God (GENESIS 32:22-30)? 7) Can we see the Father (God) as Jesus claims (JOHN 14:9) or not, as Jesus claims (JOHN 5:37, MATTHEW 6:6)? 8) Was Jesus betrayed with a kiss (MATTHEW 26:49) or not (LUKE 22:47-48)? 9) After witnessing Jesus' crucifixion, did the centurion call Jesus a 'righteous man' (LUKE 23:47) or the 'son of God' (MATTHEW 27:54)? 10) If Jesus is God, can he be tempted (MARK 1:12) or not (JAMES 1:13)? 11) Does God (2 SAMUEL 24:1) or Satan (1 CHRONICLES 21:1) incite David to conduct the census of his people? 12) Was the total population of Israel 800,000 (2 SAMUEL 24:9)or 1,100,000 (1 CHRONICLES 21:5)? 13) Was the total number of fighting men in Judah 500,000 (2 SAMUEL 24:9) or 470,000 (1 CHRONICLES 21:5)? 14) Were there seven years of famine (2 SAMUEL 24:13) or three (1 CHRONICLES 21:12)? 15) Was Ahaziah 22 (2 KINGS 8:26) or 42 (2 CHRONICLES 22:2) when he began to rule over Jerusalem? 16) Was Jehoiachin 18 years old (2 KINGS 24:8) or 8 years old (2 CHRONICLES 36:9) when he became king of Jerusalem? 17) Did king Jehoiachin rule over Jerusalem for 3 months (2 KINGS 24:8) or 3 months and 10 days (2 CHRONICLES 36:9)? 18) Did the chief of the mighty of David lift up his spear and kill 800 (2 SAMUEL 23:8) or only 300 men (1 CHRONICLES 11:11)? 19) Was Noah to bring 2 pairs of ALL living creatures (GENESIS 6:19-20) or 7 pairs of 'clean' and 2 pairs of 'unclean' (GENESIS 7:2)? 20) Did David capture 1,700 of King Zobah's horsemen (2 SAMUEL 8:4) or 7,000 (1 CHRONICLES 18:4)? 21) Did Solomon have 40,000 stalls for his horses (1 KINGS 4:26) or only 4,000 stalls (2 CHRONICLES 9:25)? 21) Did Baasha, the king of Israel, die in the 26th year of King Asa's reign (1 KINGS 15:33) or was he still alive in the 36th year (2 CHRONICLES 16:1)? 22) Did Solomon appoint 3,600 overseers (2 CHRONICLES 2:2) for the work of building the temple, or was it only 3,300 (1 KINGS 5:16)? 23) Both EZRA 2:64 and NEHEMIAH 7:66 agree that the totals for the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet when the totals are added, EZRA has 29,818 and NEHEMIAH has 31,089. 24) Did 200 singers (EZRA 2:65) or 245 singers (NEHEMIAH 7:67) accompany the assembly? 25) Was Jacob (MATTHEW 1:16) or Heli (LUKE 3:23) the father of Joseph? 26) Did Jesus descend from Solomon (MATTHEW 1:6) or from Nathan (LUKE 3:31)? 27) Was Joram (MATTHEW 1:8) or Amaziah (2 CHRONICLES 26:1) the father of Uzziah? 28) Was Josiah (MATTHEW 1:11) or Jehoiakim (1 CHRONICLES 3:16) the father of Jechoniah? 29) Were there 14 (MATTHEW 1:17 or 13 (MATTHEW 1:12-16) generations from the Babylonian exile until Jesus? 30) Who was the father of Shelah; Cainan (LUKE 3:35-36) or Arphaxad (GENESIS 11:12)? 31) Simon Peter finds out that Jesus was the Christ by a revelation from heaven (MATTEW 16:17) or by his brother Andrew (JOHN 1:41)? 32) When Jesus met Jairus, his daughter was already dead (MATTHEW 9:18), or was dying (MARK 5:23)? 33) Jesus allowed (MARK 6:8) or did not allow (MATTHEW 10:9) his disciples to keep a staff on their journey? 34) John the Baptist did (MATTHEW 3:13-14) or did not (JOHN 1:32-33) recognize Jesus BEFORE his baptism? 35) John the Baptist did (JOHN 1:32-33) or did not (MATTHEW 11:2) recognize Jesus AFTER his baptism? SIDENOTE; Is it the least bit odd that Jesus (God) was baptized? 36) When Jesus testifies about himself it is valid (JOHN 8:14), is not (JOHN 5:31) valid? 37) When Jesus curses the fig tree, did it wither at once (MATTHEW 21:19) or overnight (MARK 11:20)? SIDENOTE: Why would Jesus curse and kill a tree just because it didn't have fruit? Is that patience? 38) Jesus said "Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied (LUKE 6:21)" and "not to worry because life is more than food (LUKE 12:22-23)", yet he curses a fig tree because he is hungry and it has no fruit (MATTHEW 21:19). 39) Jesus is sent (LUKE 6:27) is not sent to teach peace and love (LUKE 12:49-53). 40) Did Peter deny Jesus 3 times before the cock crowed (JOHN 13:38), or 3 times before the cock crowed twice (MARK 14:30)? 41) Jesus did (JOHN 19:17) or did not (MARK 15:21) bear his own cross?

I don't know much about freemasonry other than the fact that many of our countries founders might have been masons, it is believed that the Freemasons are the reorganized form of the Knights Templar and that Mormonism has been compared to Freemasonry.

I saw you make claims that they are wrong because of the council, yet I addressed that remark today. I explained how the Trinity is in the bible, as well as some other ones you mentioned. Please read my posts. Yet your claim that you can only reach that 3rd heaven through the works you do is NOT supported scripturally. Please show your proof of this belief. 1) You have changed who Jesus is. 2) You do not believe that you get to be with God through Jesus alone, that you need the works of the mormon beliefs to get there. That is changing the base of your salvation to one that is based on works. The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it, like any other cult, denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically), Mormonism distorts two of them: the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation. Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God

You can't possibly believe that Islam is demonic, can you? There are some fundamentalists that are crazy, but the true principles of Islam are based on love, caring compassion and understanding. Piston Priest, Please tell me you are joking. eric Why do you suppose I am joking? You clearly know nothing of Islam beliefs. I've studied the religion, I'm working on a degree in religion, and I've read most of the Koran. Their belief system is not all that different from christianity.

But you are leaving out the part about there being three degrees of glory. Also, there is another verse, 2nd Corinthians 12: 2-5. I knew a man in Christ above 14 years ago...such as one caugth up in the third heaven.

You can't possibly believe that Islam is demonic, can you? There are some fundamentalists that are crazy, but the true principles of Islam are based on love, caring compassion and understanding.

Show me scripturally why those beliefs are "false". Please show me in the bible where this belief is found. You have claimed that all of your beliefs are in the bible. Where is this one? Jesus tells us that our belief in Him is all we need to be equal heirs, to be saved, to be with God. Yes I do. God is not only loving, He is also just. Our sins condemn us. We cant save ourselves. He sent His Son to be that atoning sacrifice for us. For the bible tells us that Jesus alone saves not works. We cannot do any thing at all, no deeds, to get into heaven. Nothing. Jesus Himself said: Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness! Joh 3:18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Which contradicts the bible which plainly says: Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. Your religion relies on your deeds to save you. Works cant save you. Nothing you can do will save you. Only Jesus saves. I've already told you why they are wrong, but you refuse to believe the truth. I even explained their origin, and you have yet to defend that. Strangely, you don't even bring that up. The three degrees of heaven is mentioned in 1st Corinthians, 15:40-41. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terestrial: but hte glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. You say that Jesus died on the cross for all that believe in him. We do believe he died for our sins, so why wouldn't we be saved? You quoted mat. 7:21, but you took that out of context. He is referring to those that pretend to be followers of Christ. In case you didn't notice, that verse also says that only those that do the will of his father will go to heaven. That just proves that works are important. You also quoted Eph. And again took it out of context. It says that we can't get into heaven through our own means, and I agree with that. We need the lord. I am reminded of a Bible verse, can't remember which one right off hand, but it involved a person asking Jesus how he can go to heaven and Jesus replied, "Keep the Commandments. The other one about boasting means just that, you can't just keep the commandments and suppose that will be sufficient. Both are needed. Faith without works is dead, just like James says. And dead faith is the same as having no faith. And without faith, you can not be saved. So works are important.

Yes, we are called to reject false teachings, that is why I reject those that you believe because they are false. You say that we can not be saved because we believe in doing good works in order to get to heaven; first off, that isn't entirely true. Good works and faith are required to attain the highest level of salvation, the Celestial Kingdom. It takes much less to reach the lowest level. And say that we are wrong, hypothetically, about having to do works. Do you think a kind and loving heavenly father would condemn us because we believe in doing good to our fellow man? Because keep in mind that we believe faith is equally important. Like the Book of Mormon says; "For it is by grace that ye are saved, after you have done all you can on your own." Also, you have yet to defend these beliefs of yours that were created by a Catholic council in 325. The way in which these beliefs came to be lacks credibility. For example, your belief in original sin was created three or four hundred years after Christ's crucifixion, by Augustine. He was nothing more than a philosopher that had unique ideas. Again, lacking substantial credibility. You have brought up many points that can be defended, but I really don't have enough time to sort out all of your writings at this time, but from what I can tell, most of them can easily be defended.

Perhaps Joseph Smith did have a few failed prophecies, I'm not entirely sure. It doesn't necesarilly mean he was a false prophet. This is one of the instances where the Bible was incorrect; when it said that if something a prophet says does not come true, he is fake. Using this screening process, one would have to assume that Moses was a false prophet as well. Moses prophecies that Israel will go into Exile, but that while in this Exile, if she repents, God will restore her to her land. Deut 30:1-10, RSV, "And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you, and return to the Lord your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you this day, with all your heart and with all your soul; THEN the Lord your God will restore your fortunes, and he will gather you again from all peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you...and the Lord your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, that you may possess it; and he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live...And you shall again obey the voice of the Lord, and keep all his commandments...The Lord your God will make you abundantly prosperous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body...for the Lord will again take delight in prospering you, as he took delight in your fathers, if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul." Moses' prophecy was not fulfilled as above portrayed. He stressed that restoration was dependent upon the nation's repentance. The books of Ezra and Nehemiah do not show the returning exiles as repentant and eager to do God's will and live by his laws. They violate the Sabbath and marry foreign women. As Joseph Smith said, "A Prophet is only a prophet when he is acting as such. In other words, if he weren't in a spiritual mindset, he could "mishear" a prophecy. As far as modern revelations shouldn't contradict the Bible, that is only true if the Bible is one hundred per cent perfect, which it isn't.

Your beliefs are from misinterpreting the bible PP. Not all of your beliefs are in the bible. For example, where is your belief about the "planet Kolob" from? Where in the bible is the belief that God used to be a mere man on another planet? Where is this doctrine found in the bible? "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man

I've read on the internet that Mormons believe that God used to be human and all that, though I've never actually been taught that. If that is true doctrine, I'm not sure I would buy it entirely. I've got a strong testimony of my faith, but I'm not like most Mormons that believe everything that our leaders teach. I think even prophets, being just human, can make mistakes.

Through the Power of the Spirit.