buckthesystem

Maybe this is a way to get rid of that old wreck of a car that you would normally have to pay for dumping it somewhere. But don't these traffic wardens and associated bureaucrats make so many mistakes that to take someone's car assuming that they "have not paid" (without due process, of course) amounts to theft? ________________________________________________________________________________ ______________ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.j...mnticket121.xml Motorists who fail to pay three parking tickets to have cars towed away Last Updated: 12:01am BST 21/07/08 Motorists who fail to pay three parking tickets face having their cars towed away, under new rules. The capital was the first to see local councils given the power to police parking and keep the fines The legislation, which comes into force in two months time, will see council-employed traffic wardens monitoring the streets for the worst offenders. They will be able to act when they spot a car which has at least three unpaid parking fines, even if it is legally parked at the time. The car will either be clamped or towed away and will only be released when all outstanding parking fines have been paid. Motorists who have failed to pay fines for other offences, such as driving in a bus lane, will also face similar action. The new powers have been given to local authorities in London first but are expected to be sought by councils elsewhere in the country. One option would be to create a national database of parking offenders, a move which has been under consideration by the Government. Another would be to pass on details of the worst offenders to the police, who would store details on the Police National Computer. Foreign drivers will also be caught as the new law makes no distinction between cars registered in Britain and those with foreign number plates. The capital is seen as having the worst problem with fine defaulters. According to Transport for London the top 20 worst evaders have run up 1,712 unpaid parking and traffic fines between them. One unnamed offender is credited with 174 outstanding penalty charge notices. Four authorities in the capital will embark on a six-month trial of the new powers: the London boroughs of Ealing, Hammersmith & Fulham, the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea, and Transport for London. However, the Department for Transport is likely to be asked for similar powers by other local councils, should the London scheme prove successful. The capital was the first to see local councils given the power to police parking and keep the fines. Now more than 200 local authorities are able to cash in on the system known as "decriminalised parking enforcement." Ministers had made it clear that they wanted to end routing clamping and towing away of parking offenders. But at the same time there is a belief that tough action needs to be taken against the hardened minority who dodge tickets. Some campaigners, including Barrie Segal of AppealNow, a group set up to help people appeal against illegal parking tickets, fear that innocent motorists could run foul of the crackdown. "I think there are some concerns given the inefficiencies of councils in forgetting to register appeals," he said. "There is a danger that cars will be towed away to the obscurity of a car pound, when appeals are pending. "This is going to put enormous burdens on a motorist in making sure that councils have registered an appeal." But other motoring organisations welcomed the move, including the AA. "We have regularly called for changes to parking enforcement which are aimed at targeting the persistent offender rather than person who makes the odd mistake," said Edmund King, the organisation's president. "These measures should have no impact on most drivers but will let those who laugh at the system know that they cannot keep getting away with it."

That would be fine, but the thing is that we are fallen humans. Therefore, rather prone to misinterpreting things. If you're wrong about this, isn't that idea a bit masochistic?

Yup. Let's see... I was fingerprinted (and footprinted!) at birth. And to enroll in kindergarten. And when I opened about ten bank accounts over the years. And cashed checks at about 100 places over the years. And when I applied for a couple dozen jobs and background checks. And when I got my driver's license, and each renewal. And for my Social Security card. Plus probably at least 100 other times that I will never remember. I figure that if Brother Osama wanted my info, he would have it by now. Well I guess you will both have to wait until real id becomes a reality, and then when "the system is down" and you are denied access to essential things: Like getting cash out of the ATM, shopping, travelling, buying petrol, buying firearms - most Americans will be able to relate to this one because they seem to hold that God given right pretty dear. Have a look at this article (it is about Pensylvania, but of course is not limited to Pennsylvania) and then say "I am not afraid of real id", but it is really tempting to state the obvious and say "sure, if you want a real id card then have one, but don't you dare impose it on everybody else". http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=8263

Beware the UK national dna database and the incompetent fools who run it! _______________________________________________________________ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/...ort-claims.html DNA error by British experts led to McCanns being accused, leaked report claims By Daily Mail Reporter Last updated at 3:32 PM on 21st July 2008 Two key blunders led to Kate and Gerry McCann being declared suspects in their daughter Madeleine's disappearance, a leaked report claims today. One of the mistakes relating to DNA tests on samples collected in Portugal was made by the British Forensic Science Service, the Portuguese document said. The report, prepared by Portugal's attorney-general, Fernando Jos

First off - I'm NOT dising America. Just commenting on "over the top: security. _______________________________________________________________________ http://www.thepress.co.uk/news/analysis/co...don___t_exist_/ Fingerprints farce means I don

HOW can it be a conspiracy theory? The original post was a news item about Italy fingerprinting all their citizens. It is far from a "conspiracy theory", but FACT! If you do not trust the Guardian newspaper to tell the truth, and you think they made it up (as would have to be the case if it was a conspiracy "theory") you could just Google it and you'll come up with lots of other new stories that will tell you exactly the same thing. And for the rest of the posts, they are all different peoples' opinions about fingerprinting, id cards, etc. etc. The UK id card'NIR scheme is a FACT, as is everything I've said about it. The Bill was passed in 2005, if you don't believe any of this and think it is merely a "theory", again you could Google it and find out for yourself. American real id is also a FACT, the Bill was also passed in 2005 (sneakily attached on the "coattails" of a military spending Bill. Now how could it not be passed when nobody would want to be seen to be depriving troops of money). Again if you don't believe this and you think I, or someone else, made it up (as would be the case if it was a THEORY) if you Google it you will find lots of information, information that will make even you cringe. There is most certainly a "conspiracy" going on somewhere to have everybody branded, numbered, tagged and tracked, but it is not a "theory". So you've been fingerprinted, and now you want to impose it on everybody else. Are you one of these people who when something happens to them they wish it on everybody else to make them feel better?

Quote: Mizdy's post, I cannot seem to quote successfully. Nevada had opted out and many are still trying to figure out when our nuts up in Reno put it into law. When I went to get my license I made the comment to the dmv guy how glad I was that NV had opted out and that is when I learned our state was going along with it. According to the dmv guy all states will eventually be made to make the change or face penalities, haven't looked into that though. When it becomes into manditory I will turn in my license. I can't drive anymore and never do any banking and frankly I haven't actually used mine for anything in years. Now if they actually attach it to my bank account and I can't use my ATM card I might be in trouble. One would think that a town born out of mob rule would not want something like this either but there seems to be a bunch of socialist liberals in charge these days. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The federal government has tried to blackmail individual state governments into complying with real id by saying that without compliant driving licences their citizens will not be able to board aeroplanes or enter federal buildings, even go to national parks, but then if 90% of the states turn round and point blank refuse to have anything to do with this weird idea, the federal government will be forced to drop it. When the federal government comes out with an idea like this, which will benefit no one, to succeed they rely entirely on the compliance of the people. If the people just say "no", they will have to back down. But if they just accept it without thinking, this encourages the powers that be to say "well they just rolled over on this one, so what other ridiculous, expensive idea can we impose on them next? As for what DMV employees say. They exist to repeat government propaganda and they will tell you all sorts of rubbish. Most people won't even challenge it.

This brings to mind the old adage which goes something like " ......... living in a fool's paradise". Or is it something about not being able to see the wood for the trees? No, maybe it is something like "all it takes for evil to reign is for good men to do nothing". Or maybe Axxman. you should read "the emperor's new clothes". It's a childrens' story but very apt in these circumstances. Someone help me out here???

David you DID ask. However, I doubt whether WB would appreciate my taking up all their bandwidth in replying, and writing something that would not only take me hours to write but would take you hours to read. But this is very important, and it is essential that you know at least some of the facts before advocating this horrible system. I've been following the progress of the UK id/NIR scheme ever since it was first mooted, in about 2002. I have a friend who lives in central London, works there and has lived there for more than 20 years, is married to an English woman, and they intended to stay there for ever. UK society has changed over the past six or seven years so drastically that if it wasn't for her family in London they would have left years ago, but as it is they are planning a move to Canada where she has two brothers. I get the most scary emails from my friend about the UK id/NIR scheme, and he isn't the sort of person who exaggerates. Basically the ID card itself isn't the major problem, this is not about a harmless piece of plastic, as it has been sold to the public. The asolutely insidious thing about this scheme is the NATIONAL IDENTITY REGISTER that is buttressed to the card. You will be FORCED to attend an interrogation where no less than 51 separate pieces of information will be extracted from you and put on the register. You claim that the UK government already has all this information about you and it would be good to have it collected in one place. Well, here's an analogy that should make you consider whether or not that is such a good idea: Right now you have a key to your front door, a key to your car, (maybe) a key to your place of work, a pin number that gives you access to your bank account, a library card, (maybe) a key to a gun cabinet, a key to a liquor cabinet, etc. etc. Well why don't we just take away all those keys and control all the locks, the bank account and the library with one card with a number printed on it? So convenient for you unless you lose the card, I pick it up and then I have access to your house, you car and everything you have. Next I must point out that (contrary to the government's chanting over and over again) people seem to believe the id/nir scheme will "give you access to all sorts of government services" IT WILL NOT DO THIS AT ALL, in fact it might take away rights that you thus far have enjoyed, because this gives the government the power to say "oh, look, your card has been rejected, so you are not (despite what you insist) entitled to any healthcare! In fact the government is removing all your rights, and your entire identity, and then renting them back to you - AT AN ENORMOUS COST! And of course, under the ID card Act government can cancel an id card any time they like, thus depriving you of your very life. The thing is, after the introduction of this scheme, you are totally at the mercy of the government, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING THAT YOU CANNOT DO ALREADY!!!!!! I recently read a brilliant analogy of this (but I can't give credit because I can't remember where I saw it): It is sort of like the government holding your head underwater and then trying to sell you a snorkel. Another thing is that it is planned to have "secure" internet access to the national identity register. Believe me it will be so very quickly "hacked into" (as everything that this government has claimed to be "secure" with regard to computers is soon copied, forged or hacked into). So when this happens all the details of your entire life will be available to just about anyone who wants them, 24/7, and most importantly the details on your card. So if I was so determined I could go on a shopping spree with your bank account, and if any shops asked me awkward questions - such as your mother's maiden name - I would just go back to your record on the NIR to find the answer. Criminals could have a field day. If I broke into your house, you would simply get a new lock and key to stop me burglaring it again, or if I stole your car you could get another car, but if I stole your ID card and thereby gained access to your NIR record, your couldn't simply get another life. Government has already said that they plan to give thousands of people access to the NIR, and realising how many people in UK work or councils or the civil service it could more accurately be millions of people, (now do you really want some silly clerical worker in the "department of wasting taxpayers' money" to be able to browse through all your personal details? Government has already said that they plan to "help pay for the scheme by selling access to people's personal data, so you won't ever know who knows what about you. Here's something more to think about: Say I am stalker, I have been stalking you and all of a sudden you seem to disappear, so I merely go to (probably) the UKIPS and pay a fee for the data it holds on you, and voila the new address that you escaped to. And I'm back in business stalking you. REALLY THIS IS THE BEST EVER WEAPON THAT ANY CRIMINAL OR CRIMINAL ORGANISATION COULD EVER HAVE BEEN HANDED, IT IS LIKE IT WAS CREATED JUST FOR THEM! There is also the "audit trail", meaning that there will be a record kept of any transaction and all the details with regard to you which will be KEPT FOREVER, long after you are dead. Then according to the Act, "the id card (and the record on the NIR) remains the property of the government. So the government giveth (or in this case "rents") and the government also taketh away. So I take this to mean that if the government considers that you've "been a bad boy", it might take back your card, leaving you as a NON-PERSON! Don't ever think it won't happen, have you read G Orwell's "1984"? Well I think the Blair government thought it was written as a "how to" manual for governments to shape society. We have been told that the UK system will rely on biometrics for its success. Well you must consider that the failure rate for biometric checking is VERY HIGH! Therefore, if a fingerprint reader, or an iris scan reader, or face recognition tecnology for any reason whatsoever fails to recognise your biometric measurements, your transaction will not go through. Considering UK's population there must be more than a million people who will not be able to have their biometrics recognised for one reason or another. Also I personally find the use of biometrics CREEPY! I was brought up to believe that fingerprints are something taken by the police when you are arrested and processed, not something that you give every clerk and government employee. But wait, there is no "giving" about any of this. They are talking about COMPULSION!!! Or at least "we will find way of creating that need", and the government has stated in the Act, that it has the right to designate any individual or group of people "those who have to have an id card". So there is nothing to stop them deciding that all males between the ages of 18 and 65 with brown hair have to be on the register and have an id card. And then of course, the legislation allows for it to become a compulsory scheme after the expiry of a period of time. So if you really want to go through all this and be part of this horrible scheme, then that should be your right, but surely it should not be forced on the old lady down the street who can barely afford to put food on her table let alone pay out "megabucks" for something she neither wants nor needs. I could go on all night, but I have to give my grandson his last bottle for the night and I think his nappy might badly need changing. So I'll leave you with this thought: Do you really trust government to handle something such as this, costing BILLIONS of pounds, competently?

Also, see this: http://www.worthychristianforums.com/WN-UK...ies-t90224.html

This is the same reason they are using in the US to put REAL ID into effect, cant appear to be racist, but we need to know who is illegal, so we'll do a REAL ID on every citisen. Believe me Real ID has absolutely nothing at all to do with illegal immigration! How could it? How do you think this dreadful system would stop illegals getting into America, and staying? The first excuse they used was "terrorism", and when that was utterly rubbished (as it should be because there was never any answers on how real id would "stop terrorism"), the "reason" was changed. Doesn't really make anyone feel confident, when they are told "it is for (x) reason, then oh no, maybe (xz) reason would justify it then. Well, SC is not complying. Not sure what that will mean in 2010, but...our ID cards are good for 10 years. I can see a run on the dmv in Dec of 2009 here... We're not real fond of this scheme down in these here parts... The Act may have been (SNEAKILY AND DISHONESTLY) passed into law, but it is far from sure to be implemented because so far (quote from a news item that I can't be bothered posting) "But many states have dragged their feet, simply promising action in the future. Delaware, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma and South Carolina have refused to cooperate outright". So hopefully people will wake up on time.

I'm going to stick with my long-held belief that the MOB will be the national id card. Already the EU is talking about an "EU-wide id card" and America might be successful with "Real id", just about all countries have some form of id card - mostly "updated" or "modernised" during the past five years. I can't believe how much the world's attitude towards things like fingerprinting, face recognition software, dna profiling, numbering and "registering" the population, has changed over recent years. It doesn't seem long ago that I was reading that face recognition programmes were "highly illegal", but now ........... I've been trying to find out when the law was changed, but there's no information anywhere. Soon (50 or more years) the national id card systems will merge into a "one world ID card" or "MOB". Makes sense - "access to markets", "buy or sell", "rich or poor". And we are all just walking into it and crying out for the id card, pleading for it in fact. Of course if we're really dumb enough to believe that there really is a "terrorist threat" or a sudden "security threat" and we have to "be led to safety", maybe we will be happy to have a system like that, happy for our time on this earth anyway.

Here's an update on the Yahoo news one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7511671.stm Now have a look at this: http://www.gcexpo.com/files/bernard_herdan.pdf Reading it just about made me physically sick, but the catchphrase of the century - with regard to this anyway - has got to be: "We will create a demand for voluntary enrolment" Sounds like it is straight out of Orwell's "1984"? Or more "Yes Minister - Sir Humphrey Appleby"? What do you think? And you're totally right about the EU. It seems that UK has lost its identity and has been absorbed into the EU and all decisions are now going to be made from Brussels. What I find incredible about all this is that England spent the last few centuries fighting France, Spain, Germany etc., all the while maintaining its unique way of life, and many soldiers and sailors died to retain the status quo, and with the stroke of a pen and no public input Tony Blair decides that England will now surrender to those countries, and binds not only the entire English population, but his political successors, to that. You might want to tell your grandfather that he slogged through WWII for nothing.

I can't believe this attitude, has the world gone completely crazy? The EU, UNICEF, everyone in fact, objects to fingerprinting one particular group - that in itself is fine - but they are perfectly OK with fingerprinting an entire nation of innocent people who are not under arrest and being "processed". Fingerprinting of Roma Gypseys violates Italy's constitution, but criminalising and processing (which is after all what it is all about) does NOT violate the constitution - go figure that one out! ________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7656980 Italy fingerprint plan gets initial OKAP foreign, Wednesday July 16 2008 By FRANCES D'EMILIO Associated Press Writer ROME (AP) - An Italian parliamentary panel gave initial approval Wednesday to a plan fingerprint everyone in the country, a move that could defuse criticism over a mandatory program to fingerprint Gypsies. The House of Deputies finance commission gave the go-ahead to funding for fingerprinting starting in 2010 for national identity cards, which are required for Italian citizens and foreigners living in Italy. Now, the cards feature the cardholder's photo. The campaign by Premier Silvio Berlusconi's conservative government to fingerprint tens of thousands of Gypsies, also known as Roma, who live in ramshackle camps on the outskirts of many Italian cities and towns, earned a sharp rebuke from the European Union. UNICEF, the Council of Europe and the Italian chapter of rights group Amnesty International have also denounced the fingerprinting of Gypsies. Fingerprinting began a few weeks ago in Gypsy camps in Naples. The government insists the program is needed to establish who is living in the country illegally, and to spur efforts to get Gypsy children to attend school. The parliamentary commission's move might ease some of the international criticism by requiring fingerprints for everybody. But Interior Minister Robert Maroni insisted fingerprinting of Gypsies is going forward as part of a crackdown on crime, which many Italians blame on foreigners. Christian Democrat opposition leader Pier Ferdinando Casini praised the plan to extend the fingerprint requirement to everyone. The identity card plan is good, ``even for our own children, because it would have been racist just to have taken fingerprints from Gypsy children,'' Casini said. Italy's top official on privacy issues, Francesco Pizzetti, said in his annual report to Parliament on Wednesday that fingerprinting based on ethnicity or religion would violate Italy's Constitution

Why does everyone seem to dislike Camilla so much? And then she's not an "official", come to think of it, are traffic wardens "officials" too? I guess the "job" is so unpopular that the only people they can get to do it are total losers who cannot tell the time. Well, I mean if you are that inept there are not many job options available, it is either the IRD, the house of commons or the traffic wardens' department (or what ever it is called).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...-tell-time.html How a motorist was fined for having a parking ticket... because the traffic warden could not tell the time By Daily Mail Reporter Last updated at 9:59 AM on 15th July 2008 Comments (65) Add to My Stories A traffic warden was caught ticketing innocent motorists - because he couldn't tell the time. He used a calculator to work out the expiry time of Dave Alsop's ticket, without realising the device worked in decimals and not minutes and hours. Mr Alsop, 29, parked near Torquay harbour, Devon, at 2.49pm and paid

Let's just hope that this catches on: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...-pull-plug.html Council scraps speed cameras - because they are 'a blatant tax on the motorist' By Ray Massey Last updated at 11:18 AM on 15th July 2008 A Tory council plans to pull

Chalk up another blunder to unaccountable people doing "no-knock searches". http://capitalnews9.com/content/top_storie...se/Default.aspx Troy woman says police raided the wrong house Updated: 07/09/2008 07:17 AM By: Curtis Schick TROY, N.Y. -- The woman who lives in the First Street apartment said the police got it all wrong when they broke through her front door. Ronita McColley was getting ready for work early Thursday when she got a wake up call she wasn't expecting. "I'm like, what are you all here for, what did I do, did I do anything wrong? What's going on, drugs? Wait, wait, I don't do drugs, there aren't any drugs in here," McColley said. Troy police said her apartment was raided by the department's elite Emergency Response Team. McColley said the doors were broken down. Her bedroom still has the clothes piled on the floor. They were thrown from her closet during the raid. And the hole in the window shade and scorched rug are from a flash bang grenade. Troy police said they had secured a warrant and were searching for drugs. "The only thing you will find in my house is a lot of Bibles. I hope you all took one, thank you very much," McColley said. McColley is a skills instructor for the disabled in Albany. She said she is thankful her daughter wasn't home during the raid. She said the only things cops took were a couple of receipts for books at HVCC. Troy police said she was briefly detained and released. Det. Sgt. David Dean wouldn't say what was found inside 396 First Street or if they had the wrong house. Dean said confidential informants led them to the home and everything was done by the book in getting the search warrants. "What it has caused is a review of the investigation in its entirety. We want to make sure our procedures are tight and we are doing the right thing," said Dean. "They won't make that mistake again. I hope. The informers telling you all that information, make sure it is true before you go into somebody's house," McColley said. No word on when the review of the incident will be done or if the City will pick up the tab for the damage done to the apartment. All McColley wants, at the very least, is an apology. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah! Now the "penny has dropped" (excuse the pun. You know: "Put the penny in the slot and wait for it to drop so you can open the toilet door", he he he!) Anyway, I got the story about the bat before you, so there! I posted it last night a split second before I posted the one about "getting stuck in the toilet window". No, I don't think I've ever actually been stuck in the cistern, but I have climbed in the toilet window a couple of times. I remember when my daughter was two and my son was a few months old and early one rainy morning just after my husband had gone to work my daughter locked me out of the house. I went out the back door to take some peelings to the compost heap and just as I was approaching it to come in again I heard my son crying from the other room and the "click" as my daughter turned the key in the lock of the back door. I could see her through the window and she had dragged the coffee table to the door so that she could stand on it to reach and she had a a bottle of ink and some paper and was busy making handprints and designs on the paper. She didn't want me back in the house as she knew I'd take the ink away from her. I pleaded with her to open the door, but all she would say was "go and get a ladder". I looked around the house quickly and only window open was the toilet window, it was quite high up and I knew it would be a tight sqeeze, but I had to get in the house. The only ladders were locked in the shed and the only things available to stand on were two wooden stools, so I put one on top of the other and just managed to reach the toilet window. Fortunately I had a coin in my pocket which I could use to undo the screw and open the window to its fullest but still the only way I could get in was head first, I took the chance but found myself sliding head first towards the toilet bowl. COULD HAVE BEEN EMBARRASSING!!!! Literally at the last minute I just managed to manoeuvre my leg round to stop myself ending up in the bowl. Then I could attend to the baby and wash the ink off my daughter's hands. The next time I climbed through a toilet window was in the flat we had just after coming to this town, it was about 15 minutes to midnight and I had to start work at midnight and my husband had just left to go to another town. This time the window was a lot bigger and there was a bath and a washing machine in the same room, so no going headlong into the toilet bowl. Ended up on top of the washing machine instead.

Sorry, didn't see that. Which thread? Don't seem to get much time for browsing these days.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4610844a4560.html A young woman who tried to climb into her boyfriend

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4614114a4560.html An English teenager was shocked to find the vibrating coming from her bra wasn't her cell-phone, but a sleeping baby bat. Abbie Hawkins, 19, of Norwich, had been wearing her 34FF bra for 5 hours before she decided to investigate, the BBC reported. The hotel receptionist said she felt "bad" for removing the bat. "It looked cosy and comfortable and I was sorry for disturbing it." She had been sitting at her desk when she became curious about the peculiar movements of her underwear. "I put my hand down my bra and pulled out a cuddly little bat. "That shocked me very much at the time, but it scuttled off under the desk and into the dark." Miss Hawkins said she hadn't noticed anything while getting dressed, saying the night before she had a couple of drinks and was getting ready quickly. "While I was driving to work, I felt a slight vibration but I thought it was just my mobile phone in my jacket pocket." The bat was later found by one of her colleagues and released.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4614027a4560.html A newborn red panda rejected by its mother in Amsterdam's Artis zoo has been adopted by a domestic cat, the zoo has said. The cat is nursing the red panda, currently about the size of a kitten, along with her own four kittens, the zoo said. The red panda was born on June 30 and rejected by its mother soon afterwards. Red pandas look like raccoons and when fully grown are slightly larger than a domestic cat

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...-T-shirts.html# Pensioners seized by Heathrow police - over 'inflammatory' protest T-shirts By Martin Delgado 14th June 2008 Three pensioners were questioned and escorted from Heathrow after police decided the Stop Airport Expansion slogan on their T-shirts was

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...0-29677,00.html Marriage annulled for lie on virginity Font Size: Decrease Increase Print Page: Print June 06, 2008 PARIS: The bride said she was a virgin. When her new husband discovered that was a lie, he went to court to annul the marriage - and a French judge agreed. The ruling ending the Muslim couple's union has stunned France and raised concerns the country's secular values are losing ground to cultural traditions from its immigrant communities. The decision exposed the silent shame borne by some Muslim women who transgress customs demanding proof of virginity on the wedding night. The court ruled the woman had misrepresented herself as avirgin and that, in this particular marriage, virginity was a prerequisite. But in treating the case as a breach of contract, the ruling was decried by critics who said it undermined women's rights. Marriage, they said, was reduced to the status of a commercial transaction in which women could be discarded by husbands claiming to have discovered hidden defects in them. The court decision "is a real fatwa against the emancipation and liberty of women. We are returning to the past," said Urban Affairs Minister Fadela Amara, daughter of immigrants from Muslim North Africa. The outcry has been unrelenting since word of the April 1 decision in the closed-door trial in Lille was made public lastweek by the newspaper Liberation. In its judgment, the tribunal said the 2006 marriage had been ended based on "an error in the essential qualities" of the bride, "who had presented herself as single and chaste". Justice Minister Rachida Dati, whose parents were born in North Africa, initially shrugged off the ruling, but the public clamour forced her to ask the prosecutor's office this week to lodge an appeal. What began as a private matter "concerns all the citizens of our country and notably women", a statement from her ministry said. The hitch is that the young woman and the man are opposed to an appeal, according to their lawyers. The names of the woman, a student in her 20s, and the man, an engineer in his 30s, have not been disclosed. The woman's lawyer, Charles-Edouard Mauger, said she was distraught by the dragging out of the case. He quoted her as saying: "I don't know who's trying to think in my place. I didn't ask for anything ... I wasn't the one who asked for the media attention, for people to talk about it, and for this to last so long." The French Government has fought to maintain strong secular traditions as demographics change. Up to five million Muslims live in the country of 64million, the largest Muslim population in Western Europe. France passed a law in 2004 banning Muslim headscarves and other ostentatious religious signs from classrooms, causing an uproar in the Muslim world. Critics contend another law on the books is being used to effectively condone the custom requiring a woman to enter marriage as a virgin, and prove it with bloodstained sheets on her wedding night. Article 180 of the civil code states that when a couple enters into a marriage, if the "essential qualities" of a spouse are misrepresented, then "the other spouse can seek the nullity of the marriage". Examples of annulled marriages include a husband found to be impotent and a wife who was a prostitute, said the groom's lawyer, Xavier Labbee. Mr Labbee denied the woman's virginity was at issue. "The question is not one of virginity. The question is one of lying," he said.