Crisor

Ahhhh, yes. I have been umasked, the gig is up and my ruse discovered. In respect to those of this board, with whom I did enjoyed a few good conversations with while I was here, I gracefully bow out of the worthyboard forums and leave you. As for you John, I welcome the day when I shall see your God, despite the fact that I don't believe it will ever happen. It will finally be the proof He so lovingly kept from me and those like me while I was here on earth. In which case, I will gladly acknowledge my mistake and make my way to the eteranal flames prepared for me since the dawn of time, since that was where I was destined to go anyway if your God is as you say, and all-knowing. Of course, I am sure this will make you and those who reside in the Heavenly relm quite happy, the ulitimate "I told you so" to atheists everywhere. Good bye and good luck to all. Crisor aka Christmyth

Soooo, I take it you didn't like the link? This, is a joke. I'll try and tone it down a bit. Crisor

If my post sounded rude and condenscending, I apologize, it was not meant to be that way. I am not defending in any way the Jesus Seminar. As I stated, I do not completely agree with their conclusions about the matter myself. However, I am not about to just shrug the conclusion off just because I don't agree with it. Their findings are interesting, to say the least. Once again, it sounds like your saying since they don't agree with what you believe, then their wrong and your right. Please point to evidence that these scholars only know classical greek and not Koine. funny Please do. I am always up for reading a new book on the subject. Exactally what topic(s) do you cover in your book. Again, because they don't agree with you, then they're wrong? It is possible to believe in the bible without believeing its "inerrancy" which has yet to be proven. see above. Your "usual suspects" are questionable at best. And just because the Pool of Siloam was not thought to exist and was found is neither here nor there. Just because they found Troy, does not mean the greek pantheon sits atop mount Olympus. Maybe you should do the same. As I stated, when you factor in the events that the gospels describe, such as the list I gave in my post above, then it seems to me to be dealing with myth, or in this case legend, more than facts. I will. Crisor

Like it or not, one day you will bow down before Allah, so you better do it now so you don't have to do it when it will be no good to you. (Judgement Day) Allah loves you like it or not, He has patience but you have to act quick, you never know when it's gonna be too late See anybody can do it with any religion, I even gave a link to back mine up.

And just for your viewing pleasure, a list of some of those who worked on the Jesus Seminar, including their "qualifications." Are you going to tell me that none of these people knew Koine Greek? Are you going to convience me that all of these people are somehow beneath your intellect and know nothing about the New Testament? If so, I would ask for you to let them know so they might quite wasting both their and the rest of the schoarly worlds time with such nonsense. Fellows of the Westar Institute or how about this guy Bart D. Ehrman laughing yet? No? Then how about one more: Bruce Metzger Of course, your right. None of these people could possibly know Koine Greek or Hebrew despite their postitions. Crisor

No offense, apothanein kerdos, but all this does is show your own ignorance. Basically what your saying is that if you don't agree with what they are saying, then their not true scholars and the only true scholars are those of which you agree. You state that these scholars do not know Koine Greek but Classical Greek. How do you know this? You state "the conclusions they draw lack any merit behind them" and once again I have to ask, how do you know? Are you a biblical scholar to judge wither or not their papers have any validity? If so, please point me to something you have published so that I may read it. You state that those outside of Christianity "do not hold valid qualifications to study the bible," but what of those within Christianity that disagree with your conclusions about the bible being "inerrent?" Are you going to say that they, too, lack the qualifications to study the bible? You speak of the "Jesus Seminar" as a bad example of modern scholarship. By what method have you come to this conclusion? While I may not agree with their conclusions on the matter, I would not go as far as to call thier findings completely without merit or close my mind to what they have to say on the subject. You can make grandious statements like this, apothanein, but please back up your claims. What extra-biblical sources are you refering? What archeological evidence are you speaking about? You state that "the manner in which it is written is not fantastical or in a mythological manner." What? Walking on water, casting out demons, raising the dead is not mythological? I hope your kidding here, apothanein, because if you not, there are going to be a lot of happy deimigod and heros of myth? And no, I am not going to point to the creation story. I do not want to dive into the waters of an evolution/creation debate which would take this conversation way off course, and I wish very much for it to stay on course.

I'll ask you the same questions as I asked above. Did you agree with anything they said, with what did you disagree? How is it you came to your conclusions about the bible being "the inerrant Word of God?" Did you study into any other religions before coming to this conclusion? How about ancient religons and what they taught? Do you try to keep up with what modern scholars are saying about the bible outside of your own belief system? And I do agree, if we could, please keep this on topic. While the Adam and Eve part is interesting to some, this tread is for a completely different purpose. Thank you Crisor

Wow, CS. I would have to agree with about 98% of this.

Which can be said of any religion or belief system in the world.

This interests me. On what grounds do you claim that the case for Christ is "air tight?" What was it about the philosophy of the other writers that you found lacking that Christianity filled? How deep did you go into the different theologies taught throughout history about Christianity? Have you kept up with recent scholorship about the bible? Please be specific as I would really like to know?

Understood.

Since this is the apologetics forum, I believe this question is warrented. How many here have studied, and I mean really studied both sides of any of the topics covered in apologetics. I understand if you have covered McDowell, Strobel, and Lewis among others I'm sure, that's a given. But how many of you have really sat down with Paine, Ingersoll, or Voltaire? How many of you have tried to read, say McDowell, and look at the way an atheist might view his material to see if you could back up his claims? How many have looked at the Bible itself and tried to read it from a perspective other than a believer. The reason I ask is because I believe it would do some good, on both sides. How are you to know the answers to the reasons atheists give for thier unbelief if you have no idea of their arguments? Even if you are doing nothing but witnessing to someone who is not an atheist, just your average joe or jane doe, some of the questions they pose would be answered in such a study. As a side note, let me assure you, as an atheist myself, that the apologetic authors cited above have earned little respect for the informed atheist. If you do your research, you can find out why. For those who have studies what they had to say, why did you discount what they wrote? What points did you agree with (if any) and what points did you think they were glaringly wrong?

A little busy at the moment apothanein, but when I get time, I will be happy to defend my position. Crisor

It matters because it is not truth. What it seems to me that you are saying is that, even if it is a lie, if it makes me happy, then why not believe in the lie. It comes down to the idea that either you want to know the truth, even if it makes you unhappy, or do you want to believe the lie. Personally, I would rather know the truth. Crisor

Actually, quite happy, thank you for asking.