SoulGrind

A page or so back, don't know if you saw, I posted a second...post...on the matter (hate it when I run out of words!) I just went back and read it - I must have missed it somehow. Anyhoo - looks worthy of researching further, as I don't know what organization/entity operates that web site, therefore, I'll of course check the findings against scholastic material for the sake of clarity and authenticity.

According, in history, to only four people. That's only the Biblical account. However, there is Josephus, a Jewish historian, general, and Pharisee; born Joseph ben Matthias. His Jewish War gives an eyewitness account of the events that led up to the Jewish revolt against the Romans in 66, in which he was a leader. This account discusses the crusifixion, resurection, and eyewitness testimonies of Christ.

BRAVO! Well stated! You mention one in particular died of "frightening means" - I'd be interested in learning more about this. I used to have a document that outlined each apostle, what they did prior to Christ, and how they died after Christ. This document was also a step-by-step account of what was entailed in Roman Crucifixion - a "Crucifixion for Dummies" guide if you will. Alas - this pamplet has turned up missing and I never had a chance to fully read it. One of my family members might have a copy though. It was quite detailed. Anyhoo... I'm rambling...

Wow - nothing like turning this thread on it's ear - anyway - I'm hoping this evening I can post some more achaeological and historical evidence - assuming anyone's still interested - I know secondeve has some thoughts about Moses and Pharoah which I'd be happy to ferret out. Until tonight... Blessings to all...

When you quote my posts you should answer to what I asked. Either do that or avoid answering completely. Again. One person prays, good and bad things happen to him. Another doesn't pray, good and bad things happen to him. How do you distinguish? Is there any difference? I did answer your question - you asked how I distinguished - I stated that it is distinguished by someone who has genuine faith versus someone who does not. Furthermore, I distinguished between God's evident answering of prayers versus Him not answering some prayers based upon God's will to do so. Not OUR will - GOD'S WILL. No offense, but you might do well to take some of your own advice here when replying to posts.

That is an AWESOME question - I too will do a bit of research myself - let's see if we "collide" in agreement! ;-) However, it will have to wait a day or so (on my part) as I won't be online for the rest of this evening.

Haven't even heard of it. I take it that it's a good one? I like the title...

Fine. So, let's say I pray all the time, like, 5 times per day or so. If God doesn't exist, sometimes bad things happen and sometimes good things happen. If God does exist, sometimes He doesn't listen and bad things happen and sometimes He listens and good things happen. How do you distinguish? If you do not believe, if you do not have GENUINE faith, then you are obviously not praying. Do not mock God my friend. But genuine, heart felt prayers from believers who know that there is power in prayer through faith in Jesus Christ humble themselves before God. No, God does not always answer prayer - at least not the way WE think He should. God answers prayer according to HIS will, not according to OUR will. God is not a Genii in a lamp my friend - you don't just rub it and get three wishes (ixnay on wishing for more wishes). Take a listen to a song by Garth Brooks called "Unanswered Prayers" and you will soon see what I am trying to say. Here are the lyrics: GARTH BROOKS LYRICS "Unanswered Prayers" Just the other night at a hometown football game My wife and I ran into my old high school flame And as I introduced them the past came back to me And I couldn't help but think of the way things used to be She was the one that I'd wanted for all times And each night I'd spend prayin' that God would make her mine And if he'd only grant me this wish I wished back then I'd never ask for anything again Sometimes I thank God for unanswered prayers Remember when you're talkin' to the man upstairs That just because he doesn't answer doesn't mean he don't care Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers She wasn't quite the angel that I remembered in my dreams And I could tell that time had changed me In her eyes too it seemed We tried to talk about the old days There wasn't much we could recall I guess the Lord knows what he's doin' after all And as she walked away and I looked at my wife And then and there I thanked the good Lord For the gifts in my life Sometimes I thank God for unanswered prayers Remember when you're talkin' to the man upstairs That just because he may not answer doesn't mean he don't care Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers Some of God's greatest gifts are all too often unanswered... Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers I think that about sums it up...

Sorry I haven't updated this thread lately - Work, Bible Study, and my Fianc

double post

You still have to have faith to take that first step. As you start to learn however, your faith becomes stronger, but so does your understanding, and therefore, you are no longer "blind". I hope this explains it ok. I may not be doing a very good job of explaining myself.

HUH? You kind of lost me there. I don't believe in the "theory" of evolution. And the Hebrew faith does include a "fallen angel" (Satan). By saying we are to "test the spirits" means we are to apply a little thought. But just because there are things we can figure out, there are many things that have yet to be revealed to us - therefore, we need to take it on faith that they will be revealed to us. I hope I am explaining this ok.

I just learned something very interesting this evening on the news - Federal Aid is being sent to Hawaii - latest news says the Big Island has actually suffered a LOT of damage - in fact the "Painted Church" (which I visited in 1991) was pretty much in shambles. The interesting part - still no record ofa single fatality or injury! Not only have we seen the power of prayer, we have also seen the power of the almighty protecting the inhabitants of the islands. Glory to God! Oh - and for those who criticize prayer by saying "I 'tried' it. It didn't work..." This about sums it up... "...Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." [James 4:3 - KJV] However, that might seem too... critical... So let's put it another way... God answers prayer according to His will. Anyway - regardless - I'm thankful. Praise be to God.

There are a lot of "gray areas" concerning various pieces of evidence.But there are just as many areas with solid proof. But archaeology is a slow science - it's tedious and requires tenacious, patient individuals. Just because you are missing one or two pieces from a puzzle doesn't mean you can't see the majority of the picture. 20 years ago, there were less archaeological findings than we have today. 50 years there were even less. As we progress, as new things are uncovered, the more the Biblical account solidifies. And yes - the same rules are applied to other religions and there have been such studies against religions such as Islam, Muslim, Zoeroaster, etc and while there are religious texts that paralell the Christian Bible, much in the way of the archaeological and scientific evidence falls short. This of course, is in favor of the Christian Bible, as being one of the few religious texts that stands completely on it's own under the scrutiny of the archeologists and historians.

Here is what I believe: I believe that the Bible the the inerrant Word of God. I think I'd made this point very clear throughout all of my posts. I also believe that if someone present evidence AGAINST the Biblical account, that all scrutiny must be applied to this evidence. Recall, we are fallable, imperfect man looking at something that is perfect. We are bound to make mistakes - God is not. Furthermore, IF the Bible were to be found in error, then the entire premise of Christianity crumbles. ANY error completely destroys the credability of the Biblical account, and therefore, the credability of God. However, the Bible has stood the test of time for over 2000 years - and the Bible even makes the claim that the Word will not pass away until Heaven and Earth have passed away. It has a good start thus far in spite of over 2000 years of opposition from various sources. I dunno about you, but my money's on the Bible it's proven itself through thick and thin and has always come out on top despite to opposition, despite the criticism, despite attempt to eradicate it, despite persecution, despite religious discrimination, despite, despite, despite... Look at books like Uncle Tom's Cabin - you can't even read this book in High School anymore and it's hard to even find in a book store - but the Bible - you can find it everywhere... Even in the top drawer of the night stand in your local hotel/motel. Yup - my money's on the Bible.

Why do you feel that the interpretations of man, who by his very nature is imperfect, rules out the possibility of a perfect God? It sounds as if you are saying, "If I am imperfect, and my interpretations are imperfect, then God must be imperfect." That's like trying to draw a ruler - then, you measure something with your homebrew ruler, then compare it to a manufactured ruler, then you notice the measurements don't match - then you exclaim, "THAT CAN'T BE RIGHT! This manufactured ruler must be wrong!" There are many things in Biblical archaeology that have yet to be found - this is the same thing in the scientific community - we are constantly discovering new things. It's arogant to think we've discovered all there is to discover. It's also arogant to assume that what we have discovered is correct each and every time. There are many instances in various scientific fields where a discovery was made, just to be tossed out in light of new and better evidence. A "lack" of evidence or "updated" evidence in no way proves that the Bible is in error - it does prove however that will still have more to learn.

Khalou - You are correct. If God wanted us to be mindless trolls, He would not have given us a brain - every species of animal on this planet has a brain - most are capable of general emotions such as love and fear. Your pet dog or cat is a prime example of that - so imagine how much more special man is with his ability to think beyond animal instinct. The Bible implores us to "test the spirits" - in other words... USE YOUR BRAIN. This is why I (my personal opinion) have such a difficult time with the notion of "Blind Faith." Yes - I agree, to some extent - we all need a little genuine "Blind Faith" to begin with. It's like fishing around your bedroom in the dark looking for your glasses. You have faith they are in the room, therefore you go looking. But it doesn't become clear until you turn the light on. God directs us to test the spirits - turn the light on and see for ourselves. "...Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [1 John 4:1-3 - KJV] This passage tells us to use our minds to verify whether a spirit is of God or not. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that requires some cognitive reasoning ability, ergo - the ability to go beyond "Blind Faith." However, one only need to stub there toe to realize the error in their ways and realize they are imperfect - remember to humble yourself before God, for it is only He who walks without stubbing His toe.

I have asked the moderators to lock down the thread entitled "A question from a Christian to a non-believer" based upon the direction the posts were headed. After reading back over the forum, I have realized more and more what a donkey's backside I had been. I was not behaving in a Christ-like manner. I let my emotions and my tongue get the best of me. This was clearly evident from EricH's tagline: And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. - 2 Timothy 2:24-26 NASB This is a sobering passage for me. For this, I am sorry. To the member "Ask An Athiest" - please forgive me as well, for you are correct, I was as you stated, "rude, insulting, and angry." This is unacceptable behavior from anyone, especially from those who call themselves Christian - and it is I who am guilty of this sin. Therefore, I humbly appologize. To all who have read the forum "A question from a Christian to a non-believer"... ...please forgive me.

I will "tolerate" a person's choice to practice homosexuality. However, I cannot, in good conscience, support equal status for homosexual relationships. Remember, I am bound by a different covenant than you.

Fine. Multiples of 10. Got it. I'm still thankful no one was hurt - regardless of the math involved.

I think we can both agree, we are both passionate about our beliefs. And there is NOTHING wrong with that. I have however (maybe prematurely) asked the moderators to lock this thread before it does get out of hand. I am glad however we have both agreed to simmer down and regain a civil attitude. It's difficult (even for Christians) at time. I'm really not all that different than you - just far more conservative - but that is to be expected from a Christian. But it doesn't mean we're any less passionate.

You truly are anal-retentive. It was metaphore. Now I am beginning to understand why some people don't understand the Bible - the don't understand metaphore. You have been helpful - thank you. You ripped me a new one for trying to honestly answer your question. What else do you think I would have done? You have been rude, insulting, and angry in this topic. I think I've acted quite nicely, all things considered. Believe me, I haven't ripped you a new one - and no, I have not been rude. At least these were not my intentions, therefore - if you feel that way - I appologize. I have been trying to understand your viewpoint, through debate - but the logic you supply seems twisted (to me), hence the reason I keep up with the rebutal. You keep spwaning more questions than answers (for me). Maybe you and I need to take a step back from one another - agreed? We see things from two totally different angles and it's getting us nowhere. And regardless of your viewpoints, I would hate to think I've alienated my fellow man because we don't see eye to eye.

"as long as she asked me first" I digress... No negative reprocusions? So you think little children, growing up in a society where there is so much confusion as it is really needs another topic such as homosexuality to confuse them about their own sexuality? You are quite right about you or me not having rights into someone else's bedroom... I totally agree with you. But from a Christian standpoint, it's imoral. You don't want to abide by the Christian standards or morality - that's fine - don't. As you said, you don't have too. But, should you decide to choose the path of Christianity, then these are things you must give up - otherwise you would never be a Christian. And I'm not saying you want to be Christian - it's obvious that you loath Christianity. I never said anything about discrimination. As a Christian, I must TOLERATE all beliefs - I just don't have to agree with them and participate with them.

You truly are anal-retentive. It was metaphore. Now I am beginning to understand why some people don't understand the Bible - the don't understand metaphore. You have been helpful - thank you.

I didn't say YOU had a bad experience. You said SOME had a bad experience. We're talkign GENERALIZATIONS here. Do you or do you not agree that because of 1 bad experience, that all thing related must be bad? But Evolution has not been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Therefore, it's as much of a "faith-based" argument as the Biblical account of creation.