mohammad99

Greetings !! I continue answering my friend Wayne B.'s questions ( post 22). Two remaing questions: 4 and 5.He worte: Answers : 4-- Master Jesus was/ is more than any of us. But he was very far LESS than his Almighty Creator !! And this is not my own idea.It Christ's idea, too. In speech and action, Christ stressed his obedience, inferiority, servitude to his Creator: ** Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord OUR God is one Lord." ** John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is GREATER THAN I " **John 8:28 Jesus said "I do NOTHING of myself" **Matthew 24:36 Jesus said "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON , but ONLY the Father." **Even in the OT, the fortold prophet, Jesus, was said to have the Spirit of Fearing GOD Almighty in him:Isaiah 11: 2 " The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the FEAR of the LORD (Jesus fearing his GOD) etc... Despite all this, Trinitarians go on saying: " no ! Christ was / is our G*d. He is our Creator. He came on earth in the form of a human to let himself be killed to save us from Adam's fault" . But does he say in YOUR BOOK he is G*d incarnate? The answer is no !! Master Christ repeated he came to support the Commandments. But today his supposed followers, the Trinitarians, violate the top two Commandments. 1st Commandment; Verse 3: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." But 'Christians' believe there are THREE equal Divine Beings who are one!! Each has an identity and a function. Strangely enough, not one prophet before ( and after ) Jesus has he even hinted to this strange doctrine. 2nd Commandment; Verses 4-6: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or at is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them...". But the Trinitarians have attributed to G*d an image of a young semitic man. Besides, the Trinitarians claim that about 2006 years ago, some people saw , touched , heard and smelled an image of Almighty Allah / G*d !!! Some Trinitrians ( Catholics during Communion) even claim they eat morsels of bread and drink sips of wine to commemorate a famous verse in the NT- Joh 6:53 - which says " "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves" . Exalted be Almighty and his prophet from that!! **** Paul's statement has no basis because Christ didn't say or hint he was taking the shape of the Everlasting! Paul came with many strange things that are contadictory to Christ's message. And this is another story !! Muslims this Jew -- the self-claimed disciple -- has curr****d Christianity. 'Christians' are doing a big injustice to Christ is by saying that his paryers and cries and human activities are just a 'mask' of G*d Almighty. Believe me , Christ was not an actor . He meant what he was doing and saying !!! May Allah reward me with meeting him in Paradise. Aameen !! 4--- Answer: As a muslim, I believe Jesus is my master. I would be honored to be a carrier of his sandals (if ever he had them !) so as to be one of his company !! And my attitude is coming from Prophet Mohammad who taught us to respect and follow Christ's wisdom. But I should say: although Jesus and Mohammad are brotheres in faith, I believe that Mohammad is greater than Jesus. Why so ? Because Almighty has concluded His messages to humans by sending the Last Muslim messenger. In order that Truth should remain unspoiled till the LAST Day , the Last Messenger should possess qualities that are better those of his predecessors.In other words, the Last Messenger should be the ' cream ' of Almighty' Messengers, the ' leader ' of the Muslim ' constellation ' to conclude Almighty's Messages. VERY IMPORTANT: In Islam it is more polite to say " Prophet Mohammad is the greatest of all prophets" than to say " Mohammad is greater than Moses / Jesus / Solomon / Lot ....." : we consider Prophet Mohammad's greatness in relation to all prophets and not in relation to a particular prophet. Mohammad (may Allah glorifies his name) liked to show modesty when he talked about a prophet while knowing / saying he is the best. CAUTION: Many 'christians' will find my words hurting but this is the stark reality (at least for us muslims). And we will be different on this matter this until our Creator gives His Judgement. Bye brothers in humanity !! I really enjoy ' working ' with you !

Greetings !! My friend Wayne wrote: Hi !! Those hard-hearted Jews wanted to stone him because they accused him of basphemy : they say he gave himself the position of Divinity / G*d / Allah. But those Jews either don't understand his words or they understood but they twisted the meaning of his words to suit their satanic scheme --- to kill him or at least smear his name. As I wrote above " Before Abraham was born; I am " is a METAPHORICAL phrase . It means "Before abraham was Born , I was / am ( in G*d 's Will / plan /Knowledge". and to coroborate my idea let us look at a similar situation where those stubborn Jews wanted to stone him. In ( John 10:22-38 ) we see a group of Jews surrounding master Jesus nagging him : (( "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. 26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, ...... 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." 34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, `I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'? 35 "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came...... 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, `You are blaspheming,' because I said, `I am the Son of God'? 37 "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." )) We learn from these verses that master Jesus rejects his being accused of blasphemy. He explains to those stubborn Jews that they the phrase ( The Father and I are one) must not be taken literally but METAPHORICALLY. This phrase is metaphorical as the verse in ( Psalms 82:6 = " I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. "). In other words, he tells them that the word ( god ) has different meanings. It can mean a divinity or a saint/ holy person. For the exact meanings of ( god ) see: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?search=god&version=kjv&type=eng&submit=Find Likewise,the expression ( son of G*d) in the OT and NT (especially in Christ's speeches) does NOT mean someone begotten by Almighty. It means (a saint/ a servant of Allah / G*d). Now to your five questions !! 1*** Your claim that (Immanuel) means "G*d with us " and this shows the Divinity of Christ is weak for four reasons: (a) --- Christ was never named ( Immanuel ). (b)--- The word translated as "virgin" is the wrong translation of the Hebrew word ALMAH. The word ALMAH in Hebrew means "young woman." The correct Hebrew word for virgin is BETHULAH. Since many young women begot children since those words were penned, it is not at all necessary that those words should apply to Jesus.

hi Mrr Wayne! I repeat once more : I want ONE phrase from my master Christ in which he says clearly " I am G*d" or " Worship me" or " I am your Creator ". I am 100% sure you will not find such a phrase in you book. what you do most of the time is to interpret wrongly the alleged words of Christ to fit your claims. you wrote: The alleged words of Christ means that before prophet Abraham was born , Christ was known / planned/ willed by G*d. If you say : " the verb is present ( I am ) and this proves christ is Eternal ", I answer : the attributes of Allah ( knowlege / will / capability etc) do not have a beginning or end. Example : if Allah gives Mr Wayne a son or a grandson this year, we say that Allah has already known and willed the birth of this son before this son came into being/ existence. And in this case we may rightly say: " Before Wayne b. was born, his grandson is (in G*d's knowllege/ will ). One must not imagine that G*d's attributes change or they have a beginning or end. A person knows something he didn't know already.He will know something that he doesn't know now. Man can forget a thing that he knows now . etc . This proves that the attributes in man are changing whereas G*d's attributes are the same in the past , present and future. Your Book proves what I say : Jeremiah 1:4-10 ((( 4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." ))). Remember too that whom you claim to be your G*d , christ, had a beginning : he was a foetus, then a baby then an adolescent then a young man. He always refers to the chaste Mary as 'mother'. Then Christ in your Book always stresses : 1 **** He IS SENT BY his G*d : In John 7:16 we read: ((So Jesus answered them and said,"My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. )) In John 12:49 we have: (("For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. ")) Note: hey! pay not attetion to capital letters !! Christians use them often to whenever it suits their whims! http://www.worthychristianforums.com/uploads/emoticons/default_thumbsup.gif' alt=':thumbsup:'> In John 5:30 we read: (( I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. )) 2*** He worships his G*d : In Matthew 26:39 we read :"And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, Not As I WILL, BUT AS YOU WILL.' " 3*** He shows his servitude and humlility to his Creator, Allah: In John 14:28 "The Father is greater than I." In John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do NOTHING.....I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me." In (John 13:16) we read: "..... the one who is sent is not greater than the one who sent" In Matthew 19:16-17: 16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" 17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." 4*** Jesus did miracles with help from his G*d, Allah: In Jhn 17:6 - 10 we raed: (( 6 I have revealed Your name to the men You gave Me from the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they know that all things You have given to Me are from You..... They have believed that You sent Me. 9 I pray ....for those You have given Me, because they are Yours. 10 All My things are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I have been glorified in them. )) 5*** Christ does not know but his G*d does: in Matthew 24:36 we read: ((36 "Now concerning that day and hour no one knows -- neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son -- except the Father only.)) 6*** Jesus has man's weaknesses but the REAL G*d doesn't: Christ suffered hunger, anger, fear,etc. Conclusion: My master and guide Christ never said he was G*d, Allah. He always stressed his servitude to his Creator --- the One, Unique , Almighty allah (to be continued) salamon ala mani ttaba'a lhuda ! bye!

Abdullah, NONE other than Jesus Christ claimed to be "I AM". Jesus spoke, "before Abraham was born, I am!" .......... Jesus Christ said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". Abdullah my friend, Jesus Christ was clear that there is ONE TRUE WAY to the Father and it is through HIM and no other. .......... May the Lord Bless you richly, Wayne Hi Mr Wayne! We have agreed to discuss now a particular point which is the alleged Divinity of Christ ( = Christ is G*d as you say ). But here you have brought in a new topic which is Crucification. I will write about 'Crucifiction' after we finish the first topic __ the alleged Divinity of Christ. Let us limit the discussion! This verse does NOT tell us that Jesus is G*d. Yes, he was the Way to Allah because without him many people wouldn't have known the Creator. *** Yes, he was the Truth because what he preached or did was the exact thing Almighty liked. *** Yes, Christ was the Life because without his coming many people would have perished spiritually. We live the real Life when we manifest our allegiance to and bond to The One Creator.This is the real life that ALL prophets wanted us to follow. If we go on the steps of Satan and his army we are doomed; and this is the real Death. *** Yes, no one could come close to Allah except through Jesus because he was the only saint person who knew and worshipped Allah the most. ALL prophets were the ONLY ways to Almighty because they were Allah's Chosen 'ambassadors' to their people. It is very strange that the idea of Trinity / the Divinity of Christ was never ever mentioned by any prophet. And it is very stange too that 'Christians' ( as an Arabic saying goes) "twist the necks of a text " in order to prove something non-existent, illogical and undreamed of. Mr Wayne,your interpretations of the verse are too far-fetched. If Chris was G*d , he would have said it plainly and publicly because the idea is a matter of Life and Death. He was not short of words. Meet you soon incha Allah ( =G*d willing) Take Care !!

Hi Mr Wayne ; Thanks for inviting me to discuss the topic you have opened. I am a Muslim in a 'Christan' website; and I was told to discuss the 'Christian' creed using 'christian' references only. And I accept. I have visited the site many times to see how the topic develops. I have found that the discussions are slow almost boring. so, I think from now on a flood of 'Christian'contributions will flow to turn the mill Mr Wayne presented from the Book of john what he thinks proofs that Christ (peace be upon him) is Divine/ G*d. These are : My comments: 1_ The word (bread) is not to be taken literally. Just as the real bread is a means of our survival in this world; so Christ is a means of our survival now and on the Day of Judgement.If we read the CONTEXT WITH THE EYES OF THE MIND ( John 6: 26-51) we understand that the word (bread) means Christ's divine teaching, guidance,light etc. In ( John 6:27), Jesus is reported to says : (( Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.")) (( 35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.)) ((48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.)) Even Christ himself depends on the Guidance of his Creator to survive. It is reported in (John 6:57) his saying: (( 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.)) In ( Matthew 16:6-12) Christ explains clearly that (bread) means the divine teaching he preaches : ((6"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." 7They discussed this among themselves and said, "It is because we didn't bring any bread." 8Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, ".......... 9Do you still not understand? ...... 11How is it you don't understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." 12Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.)) Mr Wayne, the verse does Not corroborate the idea that Christ is God. Your interretation of the verse is too far-fetched !! A note: In a sense, Muslim can/ must believe christ is the bread of life because he saved many people from the Death (= Allah's disgace; Hell) . Christ was a source of the True Life ( Allah's blessing and rewards ). The other prophets were the bread of life, too : Adam; Abraham, Moses, Lot.......(and Mohammad! ). Mr Wayne says the following verse refers to the supposed Divinity of Jesus: Yes, Christ was/is the light of the world. it means he is the guide to Allah. Without prophets we cannot ,for sure, know our Creator Allah. They are our eyes to distnguish between good and evil. Byt this verse does NOT tell us Jesus is God !! Mr Wayne B. brings in the third "proof" that Jusus is G*d incarnate. This is it : Yes, Christ and any prophet or holy man is a gate to Allah. Through their doors /guidance we peep into to the magnificent, majestic acquaintance with Allah.So, the verse doesn't any hint that Christ was/is G*d or Allah. Mr Wayne B. quoted: Yes , Christ and all prophets are good shepherds. They have guarded their people from the snare of the Freat Wolf __ Satan and his kins. (to be continued ) Take Care !! P.S. I hope that my post won't get blocked. Muslims , Christians and Jews are to come together to better know each other . And every one of us is certain that there is One True Way to Allah. So, let us look for it ant take it before we rue the day we were born. may Our Creator,who wants our good, lead us to that True; safe Way. Aameen !!

Hello Moderators !!!:blink: I have noticed that my posts are blocked. Most of them are attempts to clarify my point of view. Many 'christians' have welcomed me as a muslim. However, the moderators ( or some of them ) got the idea to stop intervetions. I don't understand this behaviour. Yes, Islam and your religion are different. But we are to communicate in this world-village. Many Muslims don't know about 'christianity' and many 'christians' don't know about Islam. so, all of us must talk to elucidate many misunderstandings. I got an e-mail message from a certain Wayne B (a moderator ?). It seems he is very angry at me because I have expressed my own opinion as a Muslim ! Does he expect me to accept his religion without being convinced of its veracity ?? So, I beg you to lift 'the embargo" on me , the muslim. I want to defend my religion. There are many si**y ideas about Islam going around here. And I want to have a say!! Will I ? Bye

Yes. Jesus is the only one that died Sinless, He came as Holy and sinless to this World, and is still Holy and sinless. . Hi Cell !! Christians believe Jesus Christ is God. And you say Jesus was sinless ,which means God is sinless. Moslims believe that we cannot say God is sinless or sinful!! this judgement does not apply to Him!!!!

hi cell !! I do have an "open mind" .I am not stubborn but I will continue denying what 'christians' say about Jesus , the prophets and God, allah! many of you are still doubtful of such issues as : the divinity of christ, the death/resurrection of God, the sinful acts of some prophets, the infallibility of the OT and NT. Many absurd things can't be accepted my muslims.

Hi B*oodbought !!! Do you mean that the Jewish Zionists came to Palestine with no people on it ?? The Arabs who were in Palistine were not nomads. Many of them were settling there for 100s of years.Nay, for thousands of years. And they were not nomads! it is those Jewish settlers who were nomads. They came to the holy land of Palestine from different regions of the world.They spent many centries 'roaming' in the 'Christian' Europe because the European 'Christians' used to persecute them!!!

[ Hi Silent, Kerdos and Wayne !!! Those "acts by some Muslim terrorists" do not come from the void! Just think of this : those terrorists are : * suffering an injustice. they have concluded that no authority can take their side. And they have knocked at every door for a solution but with no avail!! So, they use every babarous means to attract attention to their situation. But at any case, Islam doesn't tell us to stop evil with another evil. * the fruit of the policy of despotic leaders in the Arab/Muslim world. Most of these leaders are backed by the 'christian' West. Most of those terrorists draw their inspiration from Wahhabism. And Wahhabism comes from the despotic regime in Saudi Arabia. The Talibans (and Ben Laden !! ) showed up during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan thanks to the backing of the USA and the Wahhabi Saudi Arabia. And now America is reaping what it sowed !!! * ignorant of the true islam. Islam doesn't encourage its adherents to blow up unwary infidels to retaliate against someone else's wrongdoing. You say that today's Jews are the " apples of God's eye"!! This is applied to the true follwers of the prophets (Abraham, David, Mose etc). But today's Jews are a far cry from those followers. Today's Jews rejects two prophets and their Divine Books : Jesus and Mohammad. Yes, Jesus was an Israelite , from the House of david. But he was NOT a Jew. He was a muslim. The word 'jew' denotes a name of the members of an Israelite tribe : 'Judah' ( hence we have JUDAism). It doesnot pertain to God's religion. In islam, a 'Jew' is an Israelite who doesn't follow the true teachings of the prophets. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. And those Jews who rejected / rejects him are his enemies because they are not following his religion. So, I conclude that Jesus Christ was an Israelite Muslim NOT a JEW. And the true followers of Christ WERE Christian Muslims ! Do some thinking ,please! Blowing kisses to you, 'Christians' !!!

Hi 'Christian' folk !!! I am very amazed at you!! Many of you seem to love the Jews more than moslems. I wonder :why this???? Moslems believe that Jesus was born miraculously; he did many miracles such as raising the dead; he was a teacher of Truth etc. etc.etc.... And the jews believe that Jesus was a Jewish (Illegitimate)! They believe that Mary (may Allah's bessing be on her!!) was unchaste!! Despite all this, 'christians' despise moslems and adore the followers of those who ---allegedly--- killed the so-called 'God incarnate'. 'christians' helped the jews to rob the land of Palestine from its people and they yearn for the day when the Jews enslave the Arabs / Muslims !!! I am very perplexed at your attitude, 'christians' . Helpl me. I want to understand you. I am listening !!!! (edited per TOS: The use of profanity will not be tolerated. This includes sexually explicit, vulgar, or other profane language or usernames as well as any any signs or symbols that suggests such.)

Yes. Jesus is the only one that died Sinless, He came as Holy and sinless to this World, and is still Holy and sinless. . Hi Cell !!! No, you, 'christians' believe that jesus Son of Mary was a sinner !!!! and you are happy for that !!!

I haven't been following this thread, so forgive me. What are these "essentials"? If you've already posted them, then just point me in the right direction. Thanks, Mohammad. Part One :CREED In his HEART a muslim one has to : 1- believe that there is One, Unique God who is unlike anything you see or you picture in your mind. The Attributes of Allah do not change, develop, or transform, because those processes belong to the attributes of the creation. 2- believe in All prophets from Adam to the Last prophet ( Mohammad). All the prophets preached for One God and they didn't sin 3- believe in in God's Angels. There are so many and they are sinless 4- Believe in All Divine books the most famous are four : a Book revealed to Torah (Moses), Zabur ( David); the Injil ( Jesus) and the Koran ( mohammad). the first three books have been corrupted by man. But the Koran is still protected by God 5- believe in the existence of the resurrection and Paradise and Hell 6-believe that what happens to creatures is willed and known to God before its occurence [size=3]Part Two Practices: There are five things that a muslim must DO: 1- proclaim that there is no god but One, Unique God and Mohammad is his prophet 2- pray 5 times a day 3- give alms to the poor if possible 4- fast one month (Ramadan) 5- make pilgrimage to Mecca if possible A good muslim performs do both 'the heart' and 'the body' duties. If he has the six beliefs but doesn't perform the five rituals he is still a muslim unless he rejects them. this is ,in brief, a definition of islam

hi vox !! what questions? I did try to find them but couldnt!! Just rewrite them .