lypse

Now I find that impossible to believe. Guess you could call me an "afiniteforcist"!! lol, but why stop yourself there?? There's many gods throughout the world that you would find impossile to believe.

In all honesty, I never knew someone had already started a thread like this, and I probably would not have, if I knew. However, our idea's and answer's may differ since I wouln't really call myself an atheist per se. lol, but I suppose he has cause to believe I stole it from him but compensation...i dunno about that

No, I don't know everything, and I think you're going to ask me "Then, if you don't know everything, then how do you know there is no God??"....am I right?

I don't believe the Bible, because I find that it has many holes in it, it confuses rather then teaches(in my opinion) and events that occur in it really don't make sense to me. Furthermore, alot of my questions I've had regarding the Bible, I have gotten irrelevent answers, faulty interpretations and assumptions. Let's put it this way..I'm open to the idea that a finite force of some kind was able to give the universe the 'push' it needed in order for it to have come into existence. I don't believe in a personal deity or one that watches over the universe with an all-seeing eye. I believe when I die my body will rot in the Earth, and knowing that bodies do rot when one dies, is evidence enough for me.

I think that after we die, our bodies rot and that's that.

If anyone has any questions they'd like to ask, feel free to ask away and I'll do my best to offer a clear response. All that I ask is, try not to ask yes or no questions, do not ask more the three questions per post and be polite. I don't intend to debate anyone, here I prefer we discuss and learn from eachother. Let's get started, any questions?

okay, now that I'm reading through the posts, I think a more direct question is in order. Free will, as I understand it, is freedom to choose and do what you wish, without any interference from God. Assuming a omniscient God exists, he knew before I was born that I would not believe in him, so why would he allow me to be created knowing that he was just going to send me to hell??

1) the einstein-newton thing was my mix up, i meant to say, einsteins theory replaced newtons, i just mixed-up the wording. 2) you going to tell me that einstein never came up with any theory of gravity? don't give me that, I recommend you read "The Foundations of Einstein's theory of gravitation before you try to tell me that einstein never came up with a theory. 3) the theory of gravitation and the law of gravitation are 2 different things, as i stated, theories support mechanisms (how the earths pull keeps us on earth, how the sun's pull keeps the planets from floating off into space, etc), the law would be "what goes up must come down" Never made anything up, so don't accuse me of such, it is you who needs to google! (BTW, I yahoo )

lol, you got to be kidding me! Edit links* This is gonna be my last post, because you guys are really thick headed. It's been fun. Enjoy your life and God Bless you (not being sarcastic)

Christopher_John, Come on. Evolutionists brought up the flat earth theory?? The thought of evolution didn't even crop up till about 1809 by Jean-Baptiste Lamarck. Why do you have to go and lie?? First of all, the flat earth theory was originated by the Greeks and it was PYTHAGORAS who first advocated a round earth (and that's as far back as the 6th century, and your going to lie and say it was the evolutionists?) Actually, the Flat-Sphere debate occured mostly within th church!! Lactantius said the earth was flat. Saint John Chrysostom and Diodorus of Tarsus, BOTH proclaimed the earth was flat BASED ON SCRIPTURE. Bishop of Gabala proclaimed a flat earth, and these are just a few. For you to sink so low to say Evolutionists "invented" the idea shows your ignorance. There are to different words in arabic for circle and sphere, don't kid yourself. Circle will only mean sphere when you want it to.

I don't believe the earth is not 6000 years old, I KNOW the earth is not 6000 years old. There is evidence of Homo erectus civilizations dating almost 500,000 years ago. And no, they did not hide in caves, they built small structures made out of tree branches and was used as their shelters. There is evidence of human evidence going back 10,000-12,000 years, where man began to domesticate animals and grow crops. There are also cave paintings that date back almost 40,000 years ago. Not to mention the various tools that have been found with fossil and habitat remains. Honestly, where do you get these cave claims from? Who said man was "just getting out of caves 5000 years ago"? Was it you?? And how do you know that the pyramids were built without fault or previous experience? You think they got the pyrimads, the sphinxs and the tombs all right in one shot? Clearly the Egyptians were great architechs (and a very intelligent civilization), but I highly doubt they "just knew" how to build a pyramid. Also, what can't man replicate or move? Is this another one of your opinions? These ancient structures can easily be replicated, and as a matter of fact, there are modern pyramids around the world, such as, The Louvre in Paris, The Summum Pyramid in Utah and the Luxor Hotal in Las vegas. Now moved?? They are historical icons, why would anyone want to move them?? Furthermore, the pyrimads were built between 5000 and 2550 years ago, so why weren't they destroyed during the alleged world flood? Hmm, makes you question the validity of the bible, doesn't it (most likely not) Wow, now I'm starting to think that you're ignorant. let's try this again. Mankind, according to the evolution theory, has been around for roughly 200,000 years No, if I remember clearly there is one skeleton that dates back to 180,000. However, there are many more Human and Neanderthal fossils that date back 35,000 to about 120,000. funny you should point that out, I was just about to tell you to remove the wool from your eyes! I'm not even going to address this because you clearly don't even know what you're talking about. I advise you to do more research on the geologic column and fossil dating so you don't make yourself look like a Edit* again. You obviously know nothing of evolution (and your trying to tell me how it works ), coupled with the ever famous creationist straw man argument "evolution hasn't been observed". Take a look at the fossil records, there are transitional forms in species SHOWING that evolution does occur. And I'll also note that microevolution AND speciation has been observed (but you wouldn't know that, with the wool pulled over your eyes) Such a poor attempt to discredit evolution (one I've heard all to many times). There is evidence for evolution, there's nothing to believe. Seeing how you didn't present a convincing argument of course not. Your arguments seem very 'Hovindish' to me. Nice try though. Good day

Newer proofs because a lot of the arguments posed by Creationists/IDers haven't held up. As a matter of fact their not even proofs, their more arguments that proclaim "This couldn't have evolved because..." or "this is to complex to have evolved" or such and such "shows design". All in all, these "proofs" do not prove nothing. Even if there was a "designer" who is s/he? God? Why not, Allah, Hera, Zeus, Krishna or any other God of another religion?? Creationists/IDers have an agenda to get creation into schools. And we should let them based on their "evidence" that "Goddidit"? Now, before a theory becomes a fact, it has to be tested, observed, etc.. Theories are developed to explain phenomena, if it doesn't hold up, naturally it's tossed or updated. For example, we have the Theory of Evolution, Theory of Gravity, Theory of Relativity, Quantum theory and atomic theory to name a few. These are all facts and theories. Facts become data theories explain and interpret facts. However, facts don't disapear because different scientists disagree on the theories. When Einstein's theory of gravity was replaced with Newton's, did we start floating off into space?? Do you understand now?? Good day

lol, then, would you be so kind as to point me to the scripture then, so I may apologize for my bold claim.

I asked for a verse stating that the earth was NOT a circle or flat. You added the others, I just decided to address them, after all, it is Sunday and you should know that I have nothing to do

Listen, I've read a lot of arguments regarding carbon dating and those to discredit evolution. I quickly skimmed your argument, and it's nothing new that I haven't heard/debated/refuted before. I'm not trying to convert anyone. If you don't appreciate my input nor want to hear it, kindly ask me to leave and I will be on my way. I do not believe that the world is flat, I was merely pointing out that it says so in the bible, and I would like ONE verse, scripture, whatever, that says that the world is a sphere or ball shaped (which it is) good day

You do realize there is a big difference between a circle and a sphere. Like I've stated before, a circle is a FLAT 2D object. Give me ONE verse in the bible where it says the bible is a sphere or ball-shaped. While your at it, please direct me to the "many scriptures" referring to things that was already known. Good day

If he knew what it was and didn't act to change it then he ordained it. Free will is a myth since the Fall. sw if free will is a myth, then surely you're created for a purpose....correct?

Cellshade, That's science for you, when something is "outdated", it is no longer used or it will be used as a reference as to how something was initially thought to be. I'd like to see these "newer" proofs. All I see is "How could this have evolved?" or "This is to complex to have evolved". LadyGunivere, Yes everyone go to the dino thread and see the "falling" out of carbon dating Anne, I'm already all to familiar with answers in genesis, but I find them a bit misleading ladypeartree, Which "non-scientific" minds knew how the earth formed? as far as I'm concerned modern scientists would disagree because the earth isn't the centre of the universe, the sun doesn't revolve around the earth and the hadn't formed at the beginning of the unverse. Maybe I've misunderstood you, if so, can you elaborate on your question.

I hardly have to try very hard. There's no way of convincing me that your God is anymore real then Allah, Elegua, Loa, Zeus or Ares, just to name a FEW. Others feel the presence of a personal deity with their respected religions. This same argument can be presented to any religion that believes that their god is an omnimax deity. I'm not sure, but I think you were refering to me, so I think I should let you know that I'm a male.

no problem, I'll be sure to address you all as Christians without the 'X'

And who were these scientists?? The Church!! ANYONE who presented arguments that went against the bible (flat earth, earth the centre of the universe, the sun orbiting the earth) was punished for it. What does this prove?? You must be talking about a creation scientist disproved by whom?? and what exactly?? Where are you going with this Stop hoping, it ain't happening Good day

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. Carbon testing is outdated because everything has carbon in it??? I'm going to assume you worded it wrong because you were in some haste to try to prove me wrong. BTW there is nothing wrong with carbon testing or any other dating method. This must be your opinion and a terrible one at that. give me a source saying that they guess the age, after all, the burden of proof is on you now Um, it fell through because of your poor attempt to discredit my argument WHEN I SAID NOTHING ABOUT CARBON DATING. Your own argument fell through the minute you attempted it. No, I don't wonder why, I know why. Fossils and dating methods is not a hot topic anymore, so nobody in the general public cares. The only thing on the news these days are fundies trying to get creation and ID taught in schools and evolution out. Give me a source from a palentologist or scientist that "retracted" their statements. It shouldn't be hard since there is "alot" of them. I'm not so ignorant not to carry out searches for myself and check the validity. If anyone needs to do searching, it is you. I'll give you a headstart: http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/benton.html http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dating.html http://members.allstream.net/~fnojd/dating.html and if you can get a hold of it, I recommend Niles Eldredges' book, "The Triumph of Evolution and the Failure of Creationism". Ahhh, but of course the famous dinosaurs and human footprints. I don't even need to address this, instead I'll direct you here: http://paleo.cc/paluxy/paluxy.htm - if you choose not to read this PLEASE do not bring up the dino/human footprints again. again, NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT DATING METHODS. You just will jump on any bandwagon argument that creationists present. And more chemistry research?? I'll let you know from now that I'm a physics and chemistry major. How much more research do I need to do. It is you that has to do research. good day, and sorry for the road map