Rumple

Shalom Rumple, I'm sorry, but saying that women tended sheep (the animals) is not Biblical support for the theory that women should be pastors of people. You are reading something into the Scriptures that is simply not there for doctrine. It's a nice thought, but it's not correct exegesis. Exegesis? This word has been shown to me before. No, I do not or my method is not. I simply read the Bible and talk to God. Once in a while I am led to study a certain matter. Hopefully, most of the leading is by the Holy Ghost showing me the Way to more Truth. Shalom Rumple, Exegesis means to study the Bible correctly. Every person should study the Bible to know the truth and not read it to fit their own ideas. By saying that women should be ordained pastors because women tended sheep is not Biblical truth. IOW, if you say that, you are not interpreting the Scriptures correctly (exegesis) since the Bible does not say that. I do not say that women should be ordained or not ordained, Vickilynn. I am searching in this. I have only known a couple of women pastors. My knowledge of those was only very slight making it impossible to form any reasonable opinions about them and their respective ministries. On the other hand I have known many male pastors over the years and have sat under 8 different ones including my first a RC (Roman Catholic) priest. Two of the eight were really so out of line with God's will that He led me to leave their congregations because of them. I do say that God is the one who calls people to be what He has for them. Does He call women to be in any of the five-fold ministry as listed in Eph 4:11? I believe so, but my belief is not set in concrete. Am I misinterpreting the scriptures in any way? Without a doubt, but in this I am certainly not alone. I do not know a single person who is perfectly in God's will all of the time. And...like all of the rest I believe that I am right about certain things that I do or believe even though I know that some of them are wrong. Part of the reason I am here and have been in other Internet forums now and in the past to learn. The Holy Ghost leads us to Truth, but very often people are a conduit to such Truth. "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

Shalom Rumple, I'm sorry, but saying that women tended sheep (the animals) is not Biblical support for the theory that women should be pastors of people. You are reading something into the Scriptures that is simply not there for doctrine. It's a nice thought, but it's not correct exegesis. Exegesis? This word has been shown to me before. No, I do not or my method is not. I simply read the Bible and talk to God. Once in a while I am led to study a certain matter. Hopefully, most of the leading is by the Holy Ghost showing me the Way to more Truth.

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9 Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Why is it that every verse you women pastor people use to back your position is such an incredible stretch or grotesquely twisted to mean something it does not mean while you ignore the clear verses that oppose you? Unbelievable. sw I was not backing anything. I was simply asking a question. You are a bit touchy. I have been on this forum for about two full days and already I am unpopular and classified. Remember: "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2 This verse applies to me and also to you. It did not appear you were just asking a question but if you were then I apologize for misreading you. You said does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? And then you followed with isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Your questions seemed more rhetorical than inquisitive in the context of this particular thread. sw Apology accepted! We certainly do not agree on some things, but there is not reason for personalities. I was, in fact, asking for an opinion on the verse I cited. Rachel was in fact a pastor in the strictest sense of the word. The meaning in English has changes somewhat over the years, but in Spanish for example the word 'pastor' could readily be used as both the pastor of a church group or as a shepherd of wool bearing sheep. But you agree this thread has nothing to do with keepers of four-legged sheep and the fact she was a "pastor" of sheep is irrelevant to this question so therefore I still don't really understand your point. sw The direct connection may be missing, but I see one even if you do not. I'll leave it be. Rumple you might like this passage.

The majority does not decide the issue. God does. So we continue to disagree. I had only asked for consideration. Thank you for listening or reading what I had to say. If anyone will be changed [you or I], it will, of course, be God that does it, not you or me. "I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase." I Cor 3:6

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9 Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Why is it that every verse you women pastor people use to back your position is such an incredible stretch or grotesquely twisted to mean something it does not mean while you ignore the clear verses that oppose you? Unbelievable. sw I was not backing anything. I was simply asking a question. You are a bit touchy. I have been on this forum for about two full days and already I am unpopular and classified. Remember: "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2 This verse applies to me and also to you. It did not appear you were just asking a question but if you were then I apologize for misreading you. You said does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? And then you followed with isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Your questions seemed more rhetorical than inquisitive in the context of this particular thread. sw Apology accepted! We certainly do not agree on some things, but there is not reason for personalities. I was, in fact, asking for an opinion on the verse I cited. Rachel was in fact a pastor in the strictest sense of the word. The meaning in English has changes somewhat over the years, but in Spanish for example the word 'pastor' could readily be used as both the pastor of a church group or as a shepherd of wool bearing sheep. But you agree this thread has nothing to do with keepers of four-legged sheep and the fact she was a "pastor" of sheep is irrelevant to this question so therefore I still don't really understand your point. sw The direct connection may be missing, but I see one even if you do not. I'll leave it be.

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9 Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Why is it that every verse you women pastor people use to back your position is such an incredible stretch or grotesquely twisted to mean something it does not mean while you ignore the clear verses that oppose you? Unbelievable. sw I was not backing anything. I was simply asking a question. You are a bit touchy. I have been on this forum for about two full days and already I am unpopular and classified. Remember: "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2 This verse applies to me and also to you. It did not appear you were just asking a question but if you were then I apologize for misreading you. You said does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? And then you followed with isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Your questions seemed more rhetorical than inquisitive in the context of this particular thread. sw Apology accepted! We certainly do not agree on some things, but there is not reason for personalities. I was, in fact, asking for an opinion on the verse I cited. Rachel was in fact a pastor in the strictest sense of the word. The meaning in English has changes somewhat over the years, but in Spanish for example the word 'pastor' could readily be used as both the pastor of a church group or as a shepherd of wool bearing sheep. But you agree this thread has nothing to do with keepers of four-legged sheep and the fact she was a "pastor" of sheep is irrelevant to this question so therefore I still don't really understand your point. sw But keepers of natural sheep do have something to do with keepers of God people. Both should be taking on the odor of their flock. Both flocks do in fact stink, the former naturally and the latter before God. In the OT women as well as men were natural shepherds or pastors. You would perhaps say that the writings of Paul in particular have changed this in the NT with regard to God's people. The OT often show a natural picture of the spiritual in the NT such as the respective natural roles of men and women, the latter needing to be in subjection to the former. I am not saying you are wrong, but I please at least consider some of what I have presented here in one of my earlier posts as summed up in the following paragraph. Spiritual women today are the Church and include both natural men and women which as such are to be silent in the Church when a minister is ministering God's Word via preaching or teaching. Spiritual men, on the other hand today are the ministers taking the active role Christ as the head teaching and preaching. Again both men and women are included in this group of spritually active ministers according to their calling at a given moment. Even a male pastor while listening to another minister takes on the silent role of a woman spiritually. Afterall, are we not all to be or do we not all, at least, seek to be part of Bride of Christ which is a woman? If you believe that this not possible, why not?

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9 Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Why is it that every verse you women pastor people use to back your position is such an incredible stretch or grotesquely twisted to mean something it does not mean while you ignore the clear verses that oppose you? Unbelievable. sw I was not backing anything. I was simply asking a question. You are a bit touchy. I have been on this forum for about two full days and already I am unpopular and classified. Remember: "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2 This verse applies to me and also to you. It did not appear you were just asking a question but if you were then I apologize for misreading you. You said does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? And then you followed with isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Your questions seemed more rhetorical than inquisitive in the context of this particular thread. sw Apology accepted! We certainly do not agree on some things, but there is not reason for personalities. I was, in fact, asking for an opinion on the verse I cited. Rachel was in fact a pastor in the strictest sense of the word. The meaning in English has changes somewhat over the years, but in Spanish for example the word 'pastor' could readily be used as both the pastor of a church group or as a shepherd of wool bearing sheep.

Amen! The sum total of our being belongs to Him and needs to be given back without restraint. "But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee." I Chron 29:14 Well so much for Paul's New Testament instruction for orderly worship. But if you want a good example of excessive celebratory worship, check out the golden calf episode. A great time was had by all (for awhile at least). sw What part of yourself are you willing to withhold from God if He asks you for it? Did Abraham plan to trick God at the last minute and withhold his son Isaac from Him?

Yep. As long as the Holy Spirit reveals what you want him to reveal everything is cool. Let's just not bother with that bad old sexist Bible since it really doesn't conform to your agenda. After all, the "true meaning" of His word has been revealed to you. Isn't that sort of like Manicheism? sw "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2

I do not believe that self-control is listed as a fruit of the Spirit. There should be 12 per Rev 22:2. The ones named are probably all found in;Gal 5:22-23, Eph 5:9, Phil 1:11, Rom 5:4, II Cor 6:6, II Peter 1:5-7, Col 3:12. If anyone is to be in control it is God's Spirit within us. Our own control will lead us to sin every time. Galatians 5:22-23 (New King James Version) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (temperance in the AV, meaning the same). Against such there is no law. 2 Peter 1: 5 - 7 ....add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self control, to self-control perseverance, to perserverance godliness, to godliness, brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be nether barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Ruth Temperance may be synonmous with self-control in some cases, but it is man's self-control that got him into torubl ein the first place. God gave us self-control or free-will, but this also needs to be overcome by His Spirit. We need to surrender to Him so that He has control for only then will all of the battles within each of us be won by God. He never loses battles, but he cannot win if we do not give Him the reins. The moderation or restraint of the verses above is provided by the Spirit of God as we submit ourselves, not according to our own efforts. We do have the ability to do this ourselves. If we did, then the sacrifice of Christ would have been unnecessary.

I do not believe that self-control is listed as a fruit of the Spirit. There should be 12 per Rev 22:2. The ones named are probably all found in;Gal 5:22-23, Eph 5:9, Phil 1:11, Rom 5:4, II Cor 6:6, II Peter 1:5-7, Col 3:12. If anyone is to be in control it is God's Spirit within us. Our own control will lead us to sin every time. Galatians 5:22-23 (New King James Version) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (temperance in the AV, meaning the same). Against such there is no law. 2 Peter 1: 5 - 7 ....add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self control, to self-control perseverance, to perserverance godliness, to godliness, brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be nether barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Ruth

preacher, teacher, she beats her competition on this forum by a landslide!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was not aware that sound teaching of God's Word was a "competition". As I said above, when you question women preachers their supporters get very angry. I am trying to help you move away from false teaching and your throw insults. sw And what group does not throw insults when their own pet doctrines are brought into serious question? This is the nature of the beast which every man (and woman) is who has not yet overcome their own flesh as Christ overcame His I hate returning to this thread to answer something so silly. Are you seriously saying this issue is nothing but a thread about "pet doctrines"? Please read my postings concerning the sad consequences incurred by denominations that have ordained women as pastors and then I hope you will have enough sense to upgrade your comment. Also with regard to insults there have been accusations of sexism towards those of us who know the Bible prohibits women from being pastors. Also if you want to hear real insults go into one those churches and and try to discuss the issue. That is not even allowed in those so called open minded churches. sw Well that may be it. There are only a couple of us that have had direct experience on this board with mainline congregations which adopted these false teachings decades ago as a direct response to the sexual and feminist revolutions of the 1960's. I think you and I have seen the long term consequences of this seemingly innocuous idea. Let

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9 Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? No. A keeper of sheep is a shepherd or shepherdess. A pastor is a spiritual overseer. Or does your local sheep farmer call himself a pastor? Attempting to take metaphors and/or symbolism literally can only end in confusion. Jesus says: "how I long to gather you under my wings..." Does that make Jesus a bird? No. Nor does Rachel keeping sheep make her a pastor. Ruth Where did we get the English word 'pastor'?

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9 Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor? Why is it that every verse you women pastor people use to back your position is such an incredible stretch or grotesquely twisted to mean something it does not mean while you ignore the clear verses that oppose you? Unbelievable. sw I was not backing anything. I was simply asking a question. You are a bit touchy. I have been on this forum for about two full days and already I am unpopular and classified. Remember: "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2 This verse applies to me and also to you.

preacher, teacher, she beats her competition on this forum by a landslide!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was not aware that sound teaching of God's Word was a "competition". As I said above, when you question women preachers their supporters get very angry. I am trying to help you move away from false teaching and your throw insults. sw And what group does not throw insults when their own pet doctrines are brought into serious question? This is the nature of the beast which every man (and woman) is who has not yet overcome their own flesh as Christ overcame His I hate returning to this thread to answer something so silly. Are you seriously saying this issue is nothing but a thread about "pet doctrines"? Please read my postings concerning the sad consequences incurred by denominations that have ordained women as pastors and then I hope you will have enough sense to upgrade your comment. Also with regard to insults there have been accusations of sexism towards those of us who know the Bible prohibits women from being pastors. Also if you want to hear real insults go into one those churches and and try to discuss the issue. That is not even allowed in those so called open minded churches. sw In my experience there have been few, if any, assemblies (churches) which discuss anything pertaining to certain doctrines. If they generally agree with all of your own doctrines well and good. Raise a question about the possible non-existence of a separate devil entity or of the trinity or of the non-existence of eternal torment and most will raise ruckus. Let us not be so much open-minded as Christ minded!

Shalom FA, We are not commanded to dance and whip around and all sorts of stuff in the assembly. We can worship the L-rd in our own private time. You are adding to Scripture. Paul sets down that worship is orderly. God's order to the orderly, not man's. If God says jump, ask how high on the way up! If God says shout then the walls of Jericho may falll again.

Amen! The sum total of our being belongs to Him and needs to be given back without restraint. "But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee." I Chron 29:14

And didn't Michal, his wife, take offence and remind him that he should be seemly? Give me another verse from the Bible that speaks about dancing.......... Ruth "And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances." Ex 15:20

And didn't Michal, his wife, take offence and remind him that he should be seemly? Give me another verse from the Bible that speaks about dancing.......... Ruth And she was both rebuked and punished. As for David he was humbling himself before all to glorify God. Regardless of what we may or may not think David's heart before God and that is the more important than any letter of the law.

I do not believe that self-control is listed as a fruit of the Spirit. There should be 12 per Rev 22:2. The ones named are probably all found in;Gal 5:22-23, Eph 5:9, Phil 1:11, Rom 5:4, II Cor 6:6, II Peter 1:5-7, Col 3:12. If anyone is to be in control it is God's Spirit within us. Our own control will lead us to sin every time.

Does anyone remember Rachel as a pastor? "And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father's sheep: for she kept them." Gen 29:9 Isn't a keeper of sheep a pastor?

Yes we do! Never women Never unmarried men Never unmarried men without children And if a husband's wife dies who is a pastor then he needs to step down too! It's so simple. Yes, we know, don't we! Do we live by knowledge rather than by faith?

Boggle Keep smiling Brother Johnf!

Boggle Smile Brother Johnf

Boggle Smile Brother Johnf