AmariYah

Very insightful post Steff! I for one think that these are very very important questions to ask. I also think that it is a great travesty of justice that; #1 the real source of the problems like those witnessed at Abu Ghraib have not been dealt with. Everything works from the top down, therefore Rumsfeld should be held accountable and prosecuted for his war crimes. But instead they find a couple of patsies to be the scape goats. #2 the very White House lawyer who argued against the Constitution in the Abu Ghraib case has now been promoted to a high public office. Why is it that these people who have horrible double standards and who have failed miserably in upholding their oaths of office and civil rights- rather than being prosecuted and held accountable are promoted instead. Have we really descended to such a depth where good is evil and evil is good here in America?

Folks, don't get upset- the prince of darkness is about to do his thing- just go with the flow... That my friend is crazy talk- sounds a little new agey to me as well. The Word of God does say "fear not" but it does not advise us to 'go with the flow'! We are to submit to God and RESIST THE DEVIL! Believe me guys and gals, if you fail to take a stand in resisting the evil one- In other words if you fail to speak up about the inustices of the workers of darkness, while boldly confessing the Lord Jesus Christ, then you will become "a part of it" by default. In other words if you do not oppose unrighteous policies, proceedures and yes even leaders, then you become complicit in their schemes and plans, even if you do nothing to support them. Why, because you also did nothing to stop or oppose them! Again I say, "Resist the devil and he will flee from you" That is the unshakeable word of God! (Now, I also admit that the time may come when the wisdom from God's Spirit is to essentially hide out, and continue to resist through prayer behind the scenes. But the resistance remains consistant throughout.) IMHO

Honestly- I am shocked that these kind of "free thinking" opinions and unconventional insights are even being tolerated here at Worhty? In fact these blashphemous ideas and questions are bordering very close to "Conspiracy theories"... I thought that this kind of thinking was strictly forbidden here-?Someone should quickly censor this guy... (Oh- that's right he is an elected official in the US House of Representatives.) Well at least censor and shut down this awful thread! Seriously how is this kind of far fetched opinion edifying the Body of Christ? George W. is such a good kind hearted man and this sort of nonsense does not put his administration in a very good light now does it? (p.s. You are no fool- Thanks for sharing this speech Steff! I think that Rep. Ron Paul purposefully presented those question not to be vauge but in hope that some American patriots would take a moment to think and perhaps even answer some of these questions, rather than just buying into the insane War mongering, Nation building, International police force... These policies are already bankrupting our once great country!)

Actually sojc is quite right! Not that any of you would ever acknowledge it- it is overwhelmingly clear that here at worthy when you disagree with someone's point of view, that is not only accpetable but is in fact preferable to tear down, ridicule and attack the messenger rather than addressing the important points. I've seen it here time and time again- Try to denigrate and belittle a brother or sister when you cannot find any better response! Thank you for your deep wisdom, Sojc; I teach in the Philosophy Department. Perhaps some of us who have been here for a long while, have over time simply become aware that Steff does not pay heed to facts or reason, but simply pours the same ludicrous drivel forth no matter the occasion. And just because you teach philosophy- you feel justified in slamming Steff because he thinks outside of the narrow little box that many here accept as fact. Does it make you feel more self righteous and edified to reduce a brother to a bumbling fool in your mind?? Well that is a form of psychology all right- unfortunately it is the form of psychology which has no compassion or kindness. As the book of Proverbs puts it (and here's a "contradition" in the Bible if you're looking for one!): "ANSWER NOT a fool according to his own folly, lest you be like him. ANSWER a fool according to his own folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. A yoke for an ox, a bridle for an ass, but a rod for a fool's back." All I will say is that Steff is no fool- He simply refuses to embrace the commonly accepted spin and continual stream of lies coming from the Bush White House. And since that makes you mad and threatens your puny world view, you resort to calling him names in a feeble attempt to make your point. Question: Exactly how does showing the character and love of Christ fit into a cold biased reply like this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why this thread has not been censored and retired for being so contrary to poular Ospinion is beyond me- Whether I agree with Steff of not- and I'm not saying that I do... nor am I saying that I do not- His attacks on Pres. Bush and his presentation of a point of view that goes cross-ways of the generally accepted spin should be considered not only blasphenmous but most defintely conspiratorial- Gag him, I say! And the model of Christian love and compassion shown in the posts of a certain yod-man should be an inspiration to us all to turn our eyes and hearts to Jesust. I think that we should all aspire to the exalted level of yod's harsh, cynical sarcasm- because that is surely what will win souls for God's kingdom here at Worthy! (Sorry- just making a point using reverse psychology! )

Wow, it just occured to me while I was reviewing this thread that the whole teaching and revelation of edifiying and lifting up others with positive and encouraging words/ as opposed to putting them down and disrespecting them~ This really embodies exactly what the church is suppose to be like *

May I just say that in the heat of discussion and debate it is easy to forget some of the mandates of scripture. I must first preface this thread with an apology; Please forgive me if I have come across as mean spirited, angry or rude! If I have offended anyone with my stubborness or opinionated approach I am sorry! Looking at god's word I am reminded that although I do enjoy a good political debate as well as discussing other controversial topics... it is imperitive that we do nevertheless treat each other with kindness and respect especially when and if we have disagreements. Otherwise what kind of example are we to those who are unsaved? Now I would like to share this little tid-bit from the Bible and say that I myself will try to remember this always while discussing and debating here at Worthy! " So then let us be always seeking the ways which lead to peace and the ways in which we can support one another" Romans 14:19 "So give encouragement to each other, and keep strengthening one another, as you do already." 1 Thessalonians 5:11 We are to literally seek out the paths of peace and the ways in which we can support and edify each other, not simply wait and see if an opportunity presents itself. Our words can bring life and peace to others and if we share kind words with others it does indeed strengthen them and lift them up. Ephesians 4:13-16 makes it perfectly clear exactly what the function and purpose of the church body and especially the leadership should be; we are supposed to equip the saints, edify the body of Christ speaking the truth in love so that we can all grow up into Him who is the head of the church. We are to love one another by building each other up. It is much more common to see people, even people in the church, criticizing others and tearing people down rather than building them up, why? Too many people never received up-building and encouragement in their lives so they are deficient and in a sense 'running on empty'. As a result of this even if they have something to give they simply don't know how because they have never had a good example in their personal lives. However as believers we do have the perfect example in Jesus Christ our Messiah who encourages us to be confidant and 'fear not' and to be 'made whole' not remain broken and fragmented. Make a decision today that you will endeavor to become the kind of person who is an encourager, one who speaks words designed to edify and strengthen your fellowmen. Do not allow yourself to speak cutting words, nor to doubt and condemn others without even getting to know them, but speak powerful words of life and peace to others while recognizing how much grace and compassion you can initiate by speaking with careful purpose. "Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing

This topic is not a laughing matter! And when Pres. Bush shows his support for this agenda I wonder if any of his "worshippers" uhh I mean supporters will then begin to see that G.W. Bush is not a representative of either the People of this once great country or of the Lord Jesus Christ and His word?

for some reason people think that by joking about our governments support of terrorists and terrosits regeims that it isn't important! Mocking your brother and sisters in Christ does not let the Federal Govt. off the hook for their many hypocrisies- it merely shows that you do not even respect your fellowman much less actually do as the Lord commands- "Love one another"! Even till this very day we have our leaders speaking out of both sides of their mouths. On the one hand we are waging a "war against terrorism". On the other hand we are funding and supporting countires and governments who support and harbor terrorists. On the one hand our government pretends that we are promoting Liberty and freedom and democracy yet on the other the Federal Govt. is taking away the rights and liberties of the American people through many and various means. On the one hand the Govt. claims to be for that which is "good" such as integrity, honesty and righteousness, yet in reality The federal government is continually lying about their real agendas- doing under-handed and unfair business deals and allowing the proliferation of all forms of immorality in our contry. and yet... So many of you don't seem to care about the facts about sweetheart deals like Halliburton and Enron and the likes! Don't seem to care about the facts concerning the legalized looting of Iraq by American companies. Don't seem to care about the wholesale destruction of our natural resources and the our-sourcing of high tech American jobs. Even with all these and many other facts Christians seem to believe that the Bush Admin and the Federal Govt. are good honest Christian people, even blessed and favored by God???? What utter and complete hypocrisy!!! Why do you think that people around the world look upon America as the Great Satan and Americans as evil? Primarily because of our very low moral standards- we allow prostitution/ pornography/ abortion etc... To the average religious individual from other countries whether they are Hindu/Bhuddist or Muslim they see us as very immoral and therefore they view us as infidels. They also see the double speak and the forked tounges of the American Government and simply do not believe that we are able to tell the truth. But for some reason the "religious right" of America is blinded to our own hyocrisy and are not willing to admit the very very dark side to the present American politics and foreign policy. If you are a Christain and you are mocking your brothers and sister here for simply asking that certian important questions be answered- then you really need to repent and ask why you are not willing to admit the very dark under-belly of the Bush Administration? (This is not a pull for Kerry either!)

As far as the Skull and Bones society goes- it is not something simply in Pres. Bush's past! He is an active member now and has publicly admitted as much as well as publically admitting that he is honoered to be a member of said group. The fact is that some people in the history of Skull and Bones have at various times divulged some of their secrets- and it most certainly is a Satanic organization. But I know that for many of the Sunday "Christians" here for whom Christianity is merely a religion and not a life-style- they simply don't see any problem for a "good Christian" to be an active member of a clearly Satanic organization. For a long time I just could'nt fathom how so many professing "Christians" could possible like or support G.W. Bush? Finally I realized that perhaps they were the same kind of "Christian" that Pres. Bush is. Just like a religion thing not a living active daily relationship with Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Otherwise, most assuredly the Holy Spirit would certainly raise quite a few red flags when these "good Christians" are lying, cheating and planning to murder and defraud hundreds of thousands of good people. does that mean that these good Sunday Christians are not born again? Well I certainly do not have the insight or authority to determine that! But in terms of day to day living- "Ye shall know them by their fruit" Someone who lies and deceives and makes plans to defraud and murder thousands of people is not living as the Bible commands. someone who lives and acts this way does not value the Christian values and standards very highly. And anyone who would continue in a Satanic secret society also does not value the things of God very highly either!

I like your response Adstar! FUNNY! There is a great difference between some general "conspiracy theories" and specific verifiable information which many frightened people would like to lump into the category of crazy far fetched "conspiracy theories". For example there are several well known and easily verifiable facts which clearly show that The United States of America is under occupation from a foreign corporate entity. But many of those hanging out here at "Worthy-Boards" simply put their noses in the air and make fun of these things writing them off as "conspiracy theories" simply so that they don't have to face the reality of certain facts! Does anyone else find it strange that the Federal Reserve and it's enforcement arm the dreaded I.R.S. are not part of the U.S. Government- but are private corporations? Did you know that since about 1933 the federal Government is using you and your children and your childrens children as surety? Only by borrowing on your assets and your future assets can the government continue to print money which is not backed by anything of real value such as gold and silver as it was in the past? Aren't you just a little disturbed that "We The People" buy U.S. dollars from the Federal Reserve at face value even when they only cost pennies to print? And then "We The People" also become responsible for the "debt" incurred by printing more and more of the worthless dollars! Did you know that when your income taxes are collected by the I.R.S. they do not go to the United States Treasury as required by law but to the Federal Reserve? Who controls the Federal Reserve? Where do these hard earned dollars really go once they have been surrendured to the Federal Reserve? Doesn't anyone else find it a little strange that the Secretary of Treasury does not even work for the U.S. Government, but receives his pay check from the I.M.F.? (The International Monetary Fund) These are not merely some wacky conspiracy theories at all but undisclosed facts which begin to uncover a very evil and demonically inspired attack against the Sovereign Nation of the United States of America, and against the Constitution of the U.S.A. (A little research will verify that the above facts are indeed true!) Another sad but equally true fact is polititians like G.W. Bush and John Kerry are complicit in this usurption of our sovereignty and power as a country and a Nation! But you can go hide your head in the sand and laugh and mock these things dismissing them as wacky conspiracy theories but the wake up call is coming soon! Very soon! Everything which is hidden in the dark will be revealed! ALL GLORY AND HONOR AND POWER BE UNTO THE LAMB WHO SITS UPON THE THRONE! HALLELUJAH!

A big AMEN! To Rep. Ron Paul. This is just uncovering some more of the hidden agenda of the present Federal Government. It is clear that these international bankers do not have our best interests at heart. They have already stolen all of the assets of this once great Nation- now they are in the process of stripping us of all of our rights and ultimately our freedom. I thank God for people like Ron Paul. Thanks for sharing this Steff!

And finally... AirForceStanddown The attack at the Pentagon took place in one of the most heavily guarded air spaces in the world. The notion that Flight77 could fly into Washington and carry out the PentagonAttack unopposed, almost an hour after the first plane struck the World Trade Center, at a time when the FAA and NORAD know that more than 2 planes have been hijacked, is absurd. Of all the flights of 9/11, Flight 77 was the easiest to detect, the easiest to intercept, and given its supposed target, the most obvious to be intercepted. Andrews Air Force base, ten miles from the Pentagon is home to two 'combat-ready' squadrons: the 121st Fighter Squadron (FS-121) of the 113th Fighter Wing (FW-113), equipped with F-16 fighters; the 321st Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA-321) of the 49th Marine Air Group, Detachment A (MAG-49 Det-A), equipped F/A-18 fighters. CBS (Cached) F-15s can travel at speeds of 1875 mph while F-16s can travel at 1500 mph. FAS There is evidence of a cover up. The mission statement for the DC Air National Guard (DCANG) at Andrews used to read: 202 "DCANG MISSION: To provide combat units in the highest possible state of readiness." On September 13th 2001 this Mission Statement was pulled, and a blander non-sequitur that mentions neither combat nor readiness. The base becomes, according to the website, home to a transport squadron only. There is evidence that fighters accompanied at least one of the 9/11 flights: The Nashua controllers have learned through discussions with other controllers that an F-16 fighter stayed in hot pursuit of another hijacked commercial airliner until it crashed in Pennsylvania, the employee said. Although controllers don't have complete details of the Air Force's chase of the Boeing 757, they have learned the F-16 made 360-degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet, the employee said. APFN Portland News "Allah blinds the heathens' radar" scenario: There are 4 active military radar sites within range of Washington. There is evidence that at least some parts of the Air Force was told to stand down. No hijacker in history has turned off a transponder: The transponder broadacasts the plane's altitude and location. The transponder is used by pilots to signal a hijacking. Without the transponder, the aircraft does not show up on some smaller civilian radar, but still shows up on active military radar. http://911review.org/Wiki/AirForceStanddown.shtml

Just a couple more links for the skeptics and hard-headed among us; http://www.rense.com/general18/atcd.htm http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/cah911TL.htm http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-1.html http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-2.htm http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-3.htm