Guest shiloh357 Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 So why don't you read a little further? Because there is more than one ingathering. Why don't you read and explain Jews in the land prior to the coming of Messiah as a nation defending itself in Zechariah twelve and THEN coming to recognize the Messiah? Ezekiel 39:21-29 "And I shall set My glory among the nations; and all the nations will see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. [22] "And the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day onward. [23] "And the nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile for their iniquity because they acted treacherously against Me, and I hid My face from them; so I gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and all of them fell by the sword. [24] "According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I dealt with them, and I hid My face from them." ' " [25] Therefore thus says the Lord God, "Now I shall restore the fortunes of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I shall be jealous for My holy name. [26] "And they shall forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid. [27] "When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations. [28] "Then they will know that I am the Lord their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer. [29] "And I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord God. Here we find the Lord completing the second half of the ingathering after He has vangquished His enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted September 11, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Greetings Shiloh357, The verses you quote in Ezekiel 39 is during the Millineal reign of Christ and NOT before. If you read Zechariah 14, you will see that those currently in the land will not remain there and the ones that ARE there are destroyed by all the nations armies. Then will Christ come WITH ALL HIS SAINTS and destroy the nations. The current ingathering is reflected in Mt. 24 as the budding of the "Fig Tree" and it NEVER produces ANY fruit. Current information on Israel would probably best be handled by George, the Forum owner, but today, there are less than 2% of all Israel who know Christ - a remnant, even as God has ALWAYS kept a remnant for Himself. Most of the 5.4 million Jews living in Israel are animists, aetheists, Orthodox Jews or one of many other religions. Secondly, when GOD brings them into their land, there will be PEACE, and their swords will be made into plowshares and you certainly don't see that today. So "unrighteousness" and "terror" abound today, even as never before, except for their destruction in 70 A.D. Deut 4:26-31, Ezekiel 38, and Romans 9-11 as well as Eph 1-3 all line up together to reveal the last days and the coming salvation of ALL Israel. I'm sure there are many more verses, but these I am most familiar with. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 The verses you quote in Ezekiel 39 is during the Millineal reign of Christ and NOT before. Actually, no. They are part of a continuation of a prophecy against Gog. Ezekiel begins writing aobut the Millenium in chapter 40. If you read Zechariah 14, you will see that those currently in the land will not remain there and the ones that ARE there are destroyed by all the nations armies. Then will Christ come WITH ALL HIS SAINTS and destroy the nations. Nope, It talks about Israel's enemies, surrounding Jersualem, and one half of them being exiled from the city of Jerusalem, but it does not say they are exiled to the other nations, but rather to the valley of the mountains. Also it does not say that the rest of the people who remain in the city of Jerusalem are killed. Zechariah 14 does NOT support the nonsense that Israel is going to be destroyed and the Jewish people there, scattered again. You still have not answered about Zechariah 12, as to why God is defending Israel against their enemies while in the Holy Land BEFORE the coming of Messiah, BEFORE being restored spiritually, BEFORE they recognize the Messiah. That does not work in your timeline. The existence of modern Israel cannot be explained apart from the hand of God. There were too many things working against them internationally for it to happen naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted September 11, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Greetings Shiloh357, Compare these two: Zech 12:10-11 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. Zech 14:12-15 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. and then consider: Revelation 16:16-18 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. RE: Zechariah 14:4-5 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Compare these two: Zech 12:10-11 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. Zech 14:12-15 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. It says that those who fight against Jerusalem will be killed; it is a rather graphic description of what will happen to Israel's enemies. It does NOT say as you have intimiated, that half of Israel shall be destroyed and the other half exiled. You just don't have a case there for saying that Israel is going to be exiled again from the Land. Zechariah 12: 10-11 occur when the unbelieving Jews are in the Land and have fought and won wars against their enemies. We are seeing that today. These Jews have been brought back to the Land by God and defended by God BEFORE He pours out His Spirit upon them. Zechariah 14:4-5 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Again, as I have already pointed out, these are those Jews who were exiled from Jerusalem and have fled to the mountains. They were not exiled back into the nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted September 11, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted September 11, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Greetings Shiloh357, I pointed out the error of your theology regarding Ezekiel and then you asked that I look at Zech. 12, which I did and compared it with Zech. 14 as well as Revelation. You are attempting to isolate scriptures to prove your point. I have shown over and over again the consistency of God's Word - He DOES NOT LIE. So you just go on believing what you want, but as for me, I will continue to look at the WHOLE Word of God. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Greetings Shiloh357, I pointed out the error of your theology regarding Ezekiel and then you asked that I look at Zech. 12, which I did and compared it with Zech. 14 as well as Revelation. You are attempting to isolate scriptures to prove your point. I have shown over and over again the consistency of God's Word - He DOES NOT LIE. So you just go on believing what you want, but as for me, I will continue to look at the WHOLE Word of God. Blessings, Dad Ernie Sorry DE... You said things that I showed were false. You used Zech 14 to show that half of Israel will be destroyed and the other half exiled and I showed that your treatment of that passage is false. You said that Ezek. 39 is the millenium, and it is not, it pertains to the war against Gog. Nothing you have posted comes close to proving your point. You compare Scriptures that address different topics. You throw passages out and offer no commentary to show what point you are making. Frankly, you just don't have a case. Israel will not be reexiled, and the modern state of Israel is a product of the hand of God, no matter hou much you try to twist the Scriptures to say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Accuracy of Bible prophecy www.aboutbibleprophecy.com The Old Testament of the Bible was written more than 2000 years ago. Christians call it the Old Testament. Jews call it the Tanakh. Both regard it as the word of God. The Old Testament contains hundreds of prophecies about the future. These prophecies are not "predictions," they are promises from God. Many of these promises have found fulfillment in recorded historical events during the past 1900 years. Did you know that the Bible foretold the following events: 1. Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed. 2. The Jews would be exiled. 3. Israel would become a wasteland. 4. The Jews would be scattered worldwide. 5. The Jews would be persecuted worldwide. 6. The Jews would have a worldwide impact. 7. The Jews, and their national identity, would be preserved. 8. The Jews would return to their ancient homeland. 9. Enemies of the Jews would also reside in their homeland. 10. The Jews would have Israel again as their own country. 1. Jerusalem would be destroyed Examples: Daniel 9:26, Deuteronomy 28:49-52, Deuteronomy 29:23, Hosea 3:4-5, Leviticus 26:31-32, Luke 21:24, Micah 3:11-12. In Micah 3:11-12, the prophet Micah said 2700 years ago that Jerusalem would be destroyed and Zion (a central part of Jerusalem) would be "plowed like a field." Since the time of Micah, the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem, in 586 BC. And then the Romans destroyed the city, twice, in 70 AD and in 135 AD. According to a text in the Gemara - an ancient Jewish writing - the Romans ran a plow over Zion on the 9th day of the Jewish month of Ab. The Gemara said that Turnus Rufus, a Roman officer, plowed the area of the Temple. And there was a Roman coin minted during the era of Hadrian - the Roman general who destroyed Jerusalem in 135 AD - that shows an image of a man riding a plow over the site of Jerusalem. The coin was intended to commemorate the founding of the pagan Roman city called Aelia Capitolina on the ruins of Jerusalem. 2. The Jews would be exiled Examples: Deuteronomy 4:25-30, Deuteronomy 28:36-37, Deuteronomy 28:65-67, Hosea 9:17. The people of Israel were exiled from the northern part of their homeland by the Assyrians about 2700 years ago, and from the southern part of their homeland by the Babylonians about 2600 years ago. Some returned after those exiles. But the people again were exiled by the Romans, about 1900 years ago. The Romans banned Jews from living in Jerusalem. Even today, the majority of Jews live outside of their ancient homeland. 3. Israel would become a wasteland Examples: Deuteronomy 29:23, Ezekiel 36:33-35 (indirectly), Isaiah 51:3, Leviticus 26:31-32. In Deuteronomy 29:23, the Bible said Israel would become a wasteland. The land has often been described as having been a wasteland. American writer Mark Twain wrote this, in 1867, about the land of Israel, which at the time was called Palestine: "Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C. Posted September 13, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 172 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1982 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Sweet post man . Do you mind if I save the above post so that when I am witnessing to people that want some proof I can show this to them? Thanks In Christ's Love J.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts