Stephen Posted January 16, 2003 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2003 As much God loves His first born Jewish people whom He gave that land forever, and no matter that they are the apple of His eye, if they do not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they will spend eternity in hell with the unbelieving Muslims! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabrice Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 I pray that many muslims and jews will accept Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 17, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Hi Stephen, Read Romans Chapter 11. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted January 17, 2003 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 Hi John. Romans 11 is my favorite chapter in all of the New Covenant. But what is your point? As a Jewish Believer, I know for sure how much God loves the Jewish people, but if they do not turn over their lives to Him 2/3 will perish in the Tribulation(Zechariah 13:8). Sure, when the Lord returns all Israel will be saved but that is only 1/3. Until that happens, they need to accept Yeshua(Jesus). An Orthodox Rabbi once told me that I was going to spend eternity in hell in boiling excrement for believing in Jesus! It is him that is bound for hell unless he repents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grif Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 "There are no enemies in a graveyard." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 18, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Stephen, Praise Adonai! If you are a Jewish believer, then I won't presume to tell you about Jewish believers. I recently posted somewhere that there is a Messianic congregation meeting in my tiny town. I wish there were some numbers on the growth of this re-grafting, but don't you think this is a testimony to the times? If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved,there is no other way and that message is for everyone. Peace to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alias Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Hi, No argument here, the points made are true. Despite God's great love for Israel, and His decision to make them His Chosen People, there is still one way to get to Him, and that is through Jesus Christ. Judaism is much like Catholicism in its attempts to keep God from His people, and keeping its followers in a bondage of fear (leastways that is what I've observed). Jesus Christ is what Isaiah was talking about, and it is through the blood of the lamb of God who will save His people. That is why Jesus Christ came in the first place. He came to redeem His Chosen People, Israel. But when Israel rejected Him (or more specifically the Jews) the gospel of redemption was given now not just to the Jews but also to the Gentiles Israel's blindness has been foretold of by the Prophets, so it doesn't surprise me that the state of Israel rejects the very God who lovingly brought her back to the Promised land from the fiery furnaces of Auschwitz-Dachua. In particular I mention Isaiah. Our faith and redemption in Jesus Christ, has 2 purposes (well at least IMHO it seems to have 2 purposes)... (1) the spreading of the good news i.e witnessing to all the world (2) To make the Jews, and all of Israel envious, and in so doing they will turn back to God, as is stated in Romans 11 by Paul. Which we are seeing today. I do believe that there are many Jews who earnestly seek the God of their ancestors, and hopefully this will continue to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted January 21, 2003 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 John, There are hundreds of new Messianic Jewish groups springing up all over the world. Praise God! There has not been a turning to Yeshua by Jews that we have have seen in the last 35 years since Pentecost(see my testimony in another thread). Jesus said that he would not return until He heard the Jews call out to Him(Matthew 23:39). That is happening, so look up for our redemption draws near! Alias: the Jewish leaders try and keep their people in ignorance as much as in fear. An Orthodox Rabbi once told me that because I accepted Yeshua(Jesus) as my Lord and Savior, I would spend eternity in hell in boiling excrement! That might have scared me if I were not a seasoned Believer.My family and Jewish friends have completely disowned me. Praise God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 30, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Are you still out there Stephen? This is intersting. To begin our investigation of the theory that predicts a period of unparalleled suffering to come for Israel, let us look first at a passage in Zechariah which is used as a basis for this teaching. 'And it shall come to pass in all the land, says the Lord, that two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, but one third shall be left in it. I will bring the one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name and I will answer them. I will say, This is My people and each one will say, The Lord is my God.' (Zech. 13:8-9) History supports the words of Matthew 26:31 that this 'cutting off of two thirds' has already happened. Arthur W. Kac, a historian who authored the book 'The Death and Resurrection of Israel' details how in CE 66, when the Jews revolted against Roman rule, Jerusalem fell and the Temple was destroyed in CE 70. Two years later with the fall of the fortress of Masada, well over a million Jews had been killed. In CE 132, the emperor Hadrian issued restrictive laws against Judaism and built a pagan temple on the site of God's destroyed Temple, leading the Jews to rebel again under the leadership of Bar Kochba. During the three years of this revolt, 580,000 Jews died at the hands of the Romans, not including those who died of starvation, disease and other related causes. It was at the end of this war that Hadrian changed the name of Judea to Palestine. In terms of the Jews living at that time, the historian notes that two-thirds were killed, just as Zechariah prophesied and Yahshua repeated in Matthew 26:31. The remaining third were scattered throughout the earth and it is their descendants who have been making their way back to Israel in these last days. They have been, as a nation of people, tested and refined in the 'Galut' (exile) and are currently returning to the land and the God of Israel. A cursory review of the history of the Jews and what they have suffered in foreign lands more than illustrates what the prophet called being 'tested and refined'. This passage of Zechariah has already been fulfilled to the letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eve Posted January 30, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 203 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/19/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2003 1. 'And it shall come to pass in all the land, says the Lord, that two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, but one third shall be left in it. I will bring the one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name and I will answer them. I will say, This is My people and each one will say, The Lord is my God.' (Zech. 13:8-9) 2. They have been, as a nation of people, tested and refined in the 'Galut' (exile) and are currently returning to the land and the God of Israel. 3. This passage of Zechariah has already been fulfilled to the letter 1. - If we check out Zech Chaps 12, 13 and 14, we will discern that Zech 13:8,9 can allude to the period of Jacob's Trouble which will only occur during the second half of Daniel's 70th Week (or last 7 years of this age). A text lifted out of its context and applied to past historical events in order to say it's fulfilled prophesies, is a pretext! 2. - Yes, they are returning to the land; even so not many of them are calling upon Jesus' name or acknowledging that the Lord [Jesus] is their God; so not many are Messianic...they are yet to be redeemed, being either secular or Othodox in their beliefs. 3. - Nevertheless, history will repeat itself....that's the essence of some Biblical verses that point to certain great prophetic events...they are repeated! Hence, if we continue Zech 13 verses 8,9 on to its entirety, especially connect these 2 verses with Zech 14 verse 2, we will discover that out of the one-third who are left in the land (or in the Jerusalem city), who are being refined... one-half of this one-third will go into exile (or be captured), the other half of this one-third will not be taken from the city (or be cut off). Thus, it's a prophesy that awaits fulfilment when this one-half of the one-third (who escape death) will go on to Christ's Millennium (Zech 14:6-11) after God has done with all the nations warring against Him at the Battle of Armageddon (Zech 14:3) which occurs after or at the end of the last 7 years. The Bible is its own best commentary! God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts