Baptims: In the water or in the Spirit??

[SkilletRocksMyFace]

Hi everyone, in relation to the thread entitled "If I'm not baptized and die" I wanted to dicuss what baptism is. It seems that most people believe baptism in nessasry for salvation but there is a few opinons on what baptism actually is (ie. either in the spirit? or immersion in water, or both??)

I want to suggest that we leave our bad vibes at the door and enter this thread with an open mind and a Christ like attitude. We should also use the scritpures to support our opinion. I'd like to start by adding what I believe about baptism

1. It is nessary for salvation (Mark 16:16, Rom6, John 3:3)

2. It is immersion in water, Romans 6 says that we are to share in the burial of Christ and his ressurection. It would be pretty hard to be "burried" with Christ if we did not immerse ourselves in a physical substance (water)

The bible is also clear about water baptism in Acts 8 with Philip and the Eunich. Also we are to follow Christ and CHrist was baptized in water after which the holy spirit decended apon him.

To all those who belive it to be just in the spirit, might I ask what that means, what scritpures support it and how it pertains to sharing in a burial like Christ's.

I'm open to changing my opinon so long as the scritpures support it but lets keep the debate clean and fair.

Thanks!

[Guest shiloh357]

Hi everyone, in relation to the thread entitled "If I'm not baptized and die" I wanted to dicuss what baptism is. It seems that most people believe baptism in nessasry for salvation but there is a few opinons on what baptism actually is (ie. either in the spirit? or immersion in water, or both??)

I want to suggest that we leave our bad vibes at the door and enter this thread with an open mind and a Christ like attitude. We should also use the scritpures to support our opinion. I'd like to start by adding what I believe about baptism

1. It is nessary for salvation (Mark 16:16, Rom6, John 3:3)

2. It is immersion in water, Romans 6 says that we are to share in the burial of Christ and his ressurection. It would be pretty hard to be "burried" with Christ if we did not immerse ourselves in a physical substance (water)

The bible is also clear about water baptism in Acts 8 with Philip and the Eunich. Also we are to follow Christ and CHrist was baptized in water after which the holy spirit decended apon him.

To all those who belive it to be just in the spirit, might I ask what that means, what scritpures support it and how it pertains to sharing in a burial like Christ's.

I'm open to changing my opinon so long as the scritpures support it but lets keep the debate clean and fair.

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must respectfully submit two points that cannot be overlooked.

1. We have already established, and you have admitted, that there are scenarios where water immersion is not available to everyone, and that it is possible for someone to be saved without it. That precludes the idea that it is "necessary." Necessary is absolute. It cannot "necessary," except in certain circumstances. If I can find one instance where person can be saved AND have received the gift of the Holy Spirit post resurrection, and this happened prior to being immersed in water, then it cannot be argued as "necessary."

2. There are two kinds of baptism:

a. There is the baptism INTO Christ spoken of in Galations 3 and in Romans 6. This is accomplished ONLY by the Holy Spirit, and this is the baptism that is necessary for salvation. In Romans 5-6 Paul describes us as being placed into Christ, and being removed out of Adam. It is what we refer to as "Positional Justification." Being "Baptized into Christ is just another way of communicating that idea. "Baptism" in Romans 6:3 is being used figuratively explain that we have been made to identify with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.

The greek word for baptism simply means "immerse" It does not indicate the substance into which we are immersed. Therfore one cannot take the word baptism and apply it to water immersion EACH time it is used. Baptism into Christ is not water immersion. They two entirely different concepts. Water immersion is demonstrative of the Baptism into Christ. One cannot force water immersion on to Romans 6. That is not the subject under discussion in that chapter.

b. The second form of baptsim relative to the Christian is water immersion. This occurs subsequent to conversion. It does not procure salvation. It is an act of obedience. It is necessary to be sure, but not for the sake of salvation. It is necessary for obedience sake. It is necessary because God said commanded it.

Water immersion is a public confession of one's faith in Christ, and is also a public statement of consecration. It is the first act of obedience subsequent to salvation.

[Ovedya]

Temporarilly closed. Just wondering why we should be starting a new thread on this subject when there are a number of them already going, at least one of which you have already been posting in, Skillet. Please PM me with questions/ concerns. Thanks.