Another 1000 years before the RAPTURE?

[Guest Zayit]

"Soon" in who's definition? It's been 2,000 years since He said this, so obviously He isn't going by man's time but by God's time. "Soon" to God could be 4,000 years...more or less. The simple fact is, we don't know when He will return and we are to wait for that return. We are to warn the lost of what the afterlife is without Christ because most liekly people in our generation and generations to come will not go through the great tribulation, instead they will die and be put in the ground.

Telling them about the love of Christ, not the doom of the world that may or may not happen while they are alive, is our goal as Christians. We are to share the Gospel with people, not that an event may or may not happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

May or may not? are you saying what Yeshua said was an "IF"?

This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

[fenwar]

Hmm...

John wrote Revelation to persecuted churches, almost certainly during Nero's reign.

These "end time" events have been going on throughout history. Wars, famine, earthquakes.

The fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD was the most cataclysmic, apocalyptic event in Judaeo-Christian history. When the temple - the absolute focal point of the Jews; where heaven touched earth - was desecrated, that meant the end was close at hand.

Fortunately, Jesus knew what was going to happen, and warned his disciples that this was not the case. Those in Jerusalem would be tempted to stay around and wait for the Messiah to appear if they thought the world was about to end; Jesus said "flee to the mountains".

The apocalyptic language in the Bible is often read far too literally.

As Super Jew has already said, it's about a different kind of readiness. If a master leaves his servants in charge of his house, who will he be more pleased with on his return - the ones staring out of the window waiting for him, or the ones cooking, cleaning and gardening like he asked them to?

In other words, being ready for the Lord's coming is about participation, not anticipation.

There is a possibility that Revelation was written to the church suffering under Nero. This doesn't rule out a tribulation (as it's mentioned elsewhere) but that John was offering them hope of what was to come. I don't buy this view, but it is a legitimate one.

I subscribe to something fairly close to what you're talking about; I think rather than just talking about the end times John is reassuring the church of the reality of Christ's victory in heaven, right now, just as terrible events in the world appear to be engulfing them.

Then again the main thing I don't buy is the rapture or the idea of "tribulation" meaning a fixed period of time; again I think this is a mis-interpretation of poetic language and passages written with nothing of the sort in mind.

"Soon" in who's definition? It's been 2,000 years since He said this, so obviously He isn't going by man's time but by God's time. "Soon" to God could be 4,000 years...more or less. The simple fact is, we don't know when He will return and we are to wait for that return. We are to warn the lost of what the afterlife is without Christ because most liekly people in our generation and generations to come will not go through the great tribulation, instead they will die and be put in the ground.

Telling them about the love of Christ, not the doom of the world that may or may not happen while they are alive, is our goal as Christians. We are to share the Gospel with people, not that an event may or may not happen.

Bingo. Although sharing the love of Christ is about more than just "telling them"...

How long, brother, do you think we have? How much longer do you think we have before an Islamic ruled country has a nuclear weapon? Once they have such a weapon how long do you think they will be able to resist waving it around or even using it?

You may have a point, but this has nothing to do with Biblical eschatology.

As you have noted, Jesus said that when we hear of wars and rumours of wars, we should not be alarmed. We are to simply continue to do the task Jesus set us and stand firm until the end.

So all the wars and rumors of wars, the earth quakes in various places, the death and famine are just coincidences?

There were wars, rumours of wars, earthquakes and famines in the first century too. (Any increase in the frequency or scale of these can be explained just as easily by increases in technology, population increase over time, climate change and so on.)

There really is no point getting all excited about it. "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look! Here is the Messiah!' or 'There he is!' -do not believe it." End-times spotting feels to me like people are doing exactly that.

When he does come back, we won't need these "signs" to know about it.

[Guest Zayit]

*sigh*

The whole 7,000 years is based upon the assumption that the world is 6,000 years old, which most serioust scientist and even literal 7 day creationist no longer hold to. This theory is based upon the calculations of a Rabbi, however he fails to recognize certain elements in his theory that cause it to be fataly flawed.

As for the verse in revelation, again, quickly by who's definition? A 2,000 year wait is quickly? Obviously it is by God's definition, subsequently we have no way of knowing when the Tribulation will be. We are to keep our garments, that is, continue to do the work of Christ...not engulf ourselves in Eschatology.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By some yes, by others that the time from the fall to the final Shabbat is 7,000. Still it is hard to argue with the fact of from Adam to Abraham is approx 2,000 years ( dependant on whos calendar you go by) and from Abraham to Yeshua, again another 2,000 years. And it is beyond that now since Yeshua, so we see that long-suffering of G-d abounding, but it will not go on forever. No one likes to think that they are living in the last generation, that they won't be able to have the careers they planned on the children, husband, wife to watch grow up, have grandchildren,etc, but there must be a last one and those who are in it should fell blessed to see this time in history unfolding, things that Abraham millinia ago looked towards.

[Guest Zayit]

Here are some Scriptures out of my dads notes on the subject that are interesting.

Lu 12

38  And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Ps 90

4  For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting, if we presume that the year 2,000 he should have come, like many have, and that would be the second watch,....................... Hmmmm

[apothanein kerdos]

May or may not? are you saying what Yeshua said was an "IF"?

Good job taking something out of context

From the context we know I was talking about within our lifetime.

As Super Jew has already said, it's about a different kind of readiness. If a master leaves his servants in charge of his house, who will he be more pleased with on his return - the ones staring out of the window waiting for him, or the ones cooking, cleaning and gardening like he asked them to?

EXACTLY

Then again the main thing I don't buy is the rapture or the idea of "tribulation" meaning a fixed period of time; again I think this is a mis-interpretation of poetic language and passages written with nothing of the sort in mind.

Now that I do disagree with. I do believe that at some point there will be a final tribulation, or God pouring His wrath out on the earth prior to the establishment of His kingdom.

Although sharing the love of Christ is about more than just "telling them"...

Well agreed, preach would have been a better word, as it merely means "to proclaim" and doesn't give a specific as to how to.

There were wars, rumours of wars, earthquakes and famines in the first century too. (Any increase in the frequency or scale of these can be explained just as easily by increases in technology, population increase over time, climate change and so on.)

There really is no point getting all excited about it. "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look! Here is the Messiah!' or 'There he is!' -do not believe it." End-times spotting feels to me like people are doing exactly that.

When he does come back, we won't need these "signs" to know about it.

Couldn't agree with you more. I think the only thing we disagree on is the actual act of Tribulation, but that's a whole other topic.

By some yes, by others that the time from the fall to the final Shabbat is 7,000. Still it is hard to argue with the fact of from Adam to Abraham is approx 2,000 years ( dependant on whos calendar you go by) and from Abraham to Yeshua, again another 2,000 years. And it is beyond that now since Yeshua, so we see that long-suffering of G-d abounding, but it will not go on forever.

First, it's using biblical generations when overlap or could possibly be missing (such as one name to describe three or four generations). Furthermore, even if the world is only 6,000 years old (which, historically, is impossible, even from a literal creationist standpoint the world would have to be at least 8,000-12,000 years old) that means nothing concerning the study of eschatology.

No one likes to think that they are living in the last generation, that they won't be able to have the careers they planned on the children, husband, wife to watch grow up, have grandchildren,etc, but there must be a last one and those who are in it should fell blessed to see this time in history unfolding, things that Abraham millinia ago looked towards.

We don't know! This is clear from the Bible and the "lookers" in the history of the church. Everyone thought they were the last generation. Why do we have anymore claim to it then they do?

Why should we care if we are or aren't the last generation? What does this have to do with the work of Christ?

[Guest Zayit]

Last time I checked the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ had 22 chapters, but what does it matter, no matter what I say you find cause to argue.

[apothanein kerdos]

The majority of Revelation has an angel by the side of John. Only a few times to we actually see Jesus dictating to John what to write down.

As for my sacrasm, I have no repsect for Pharisees or legalist, I can't, because they degrade the Bible into something it is not. My neighbor is the one that accepts grace and at least tries to live it. My neighbor is the one that does not rely on rules and regulations to better themselves. You are not my neighbor.

[Tishri 1]

Zayit I agree with your posts and feel that that man has been very offensive to you, I pray that He will stop it but in any case I am listening andI say "You go Girl!"

[Guest Jai Patel]

Hi

Concerning the raptore not happepening for another 1000 years, i think ther would be no-one left on Earth to rapture if the earth was to exist for another 1000 years without a rapture... Jesus does plan on restoring the earth soon during the 1000 year reign, but before that the great trib is going to happen. There will actually be 2 raptures! One just before the Tribulation, and 1 in the middles of the Trib after a 1260 slaughter of the Christians who dont worship/take the mark of the beast.... checkout http://www.satansrapture.com/raptureindex.htm

God Bless

Jai

[Guest Jai Patel]

Super Jew said

"As for my sacrasm, I have no repsect for Pharisees or legalist, I can't, because they degrade the Bible into something it is not. My neighbor is the one that accepts grace and at least tries to live it. My neighbor is the one that does not rely on rules and regulations to better themselves. You are not my neighbor. "

Correct me if im wrong, but didnt Jesus tell us to love our enemies? Matt ch 5.44

God Bless

Jai