What is the point of prayer?

[Guest JAR61]

This is a question which brings with it, the humble reply of... " we can never now perfectly why somethings happen and others don't".

Let me offer this. In June of 2003 my wife, 39yo, collapsed is has been nearly brain dead since. I have been raising our daughter. I had 2 choices. After grieving and mourning and preparing myself for a life of caring for her I had to make a decision. I could feel sorry for myself and lament "why oh why" Moses didnt, Abraham didnt and Jesus didnt. Scripture says we have not for we ask not, and we receive not for we pray wrong... we pray for the lusts of our hearts. We pray for instance to be deliviered from our pain when maybe we need to go thru the pain. We pray but dont believe. We think God is Satan Clause. We pray when we have been willfully sinful and have not confessed our unrighteousness.

Prayer should not be centered around us. It should be centered around how what we ask for shall glorify God. We as Christians too often forget ours is a life of dying to self.... that includes petitioning God for needs which further not our ourselves but our ability to serve God in faithfulness.

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you,

Mat 6:5 And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:7 But when you pray, do not babble vain words, as the nations. For they think that in their much speaking they shall be heard.

Mat 24:20 But pray that your flight is not in the winter, nor on the sabbath day;

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Jam 5:16 Confess faults to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous one avails much.

[Homeward]

Dearest EmeraldGirl, although at this time it may seem to you God does not care...He most assuredly does. Here is a hug from Him, to you, through me.

Dear one, you are, and will be in my prayers.

[ice--eyes]

and He will be ineffective in your life, if you don't trust him with all that you are.

But, duane, that is what makes God seem so untrustworthy to me. I did trust Him, totally and completely. I had no fear that this would happen to me. I never imagined it in my worst nightmare. When you have never lost a child, you can't imagine that it could ever happen to you. When it has happened, you are never confident that it won't happen again. We are not protected from harm simply by thinking or believing that whatever "it" is won't happen to us. That's what's so shattering. My innocent belief that my life would continue to be wonderful has been completely stripped away.

I prayed for every detail of my child's health. There was no indication that this would happen. It was simply a sensless tragedy.

So if He could allow that when I trusted Him, it makes me think why trust Him?

Maybe you were trusting God wrong... I don't mean to be offensive, I'm not sure if that's exactly how I should put it... maybe you trusted Him like saying: "God, I trust that you won't let anything bad happen to me because I trust and love you." I think sometimes I think like that and then get a wake-up call...

You have to remember though that everything that happens God works out for good... good will come out of your troubles... we go through trials in life... but God will always be there to help us through them... one thing I've learned is that God never gives you anything you can't handle... maybe it's hard for you to understand right now since you've been so much but God hasn't left you. He just wants you to bring everything to Him and He will help you through it. Keep trusting Him...

I'm not sure what else to say that would possibly help.....

[Bread_of_Life]

I

[bgoalie35]

I am deeply sorry for your loss, and I cannot imagine how it has effected you. All I could possibly say is that only God can offer any hope at all when confronted with death, whether through the loss of a loved one or facing our own eventual passing from this world. I hope and pray that you can find comfort and healing in God again.

[Kabowd]

I haven't ever been able to get a satisfying answer to this question, so I'm hoping this will be a better place to try.

I have been given responses (IRL), but they don't really work.

"Prayer is conversing with God."

Not really; at best, it would be a monolog.

I'm curious as to why you say this. Do you not believe that God speaks in response to our prayers? That He listens? As with any other relationship, communication is necessary. It's necessary to have exchange. When we pray, we should not only be speaking to God but should also spend time quietly listening for what He's trying to speak back to us.

Most mature Christians would snicker at the idea of praying for things that increase our comfort, i.e., "Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?" 24.gif I agree. But most things Christians pray for, or ask for prayer from others for, are essentially to increase their own comfort. If I pray for someone who has cancer, I am praying for their comfort, although this is certainly more noble than praying for a nice car.

I have read Stormie Omartian's Power of a Praying (X) books. All of these prayers are essentially a prayer that life would be as comfortable as possible for oneself and/or the spouse, child or whomever we're saying the prayer for.

It isn't wrong to pray for what we need. It may seem selfish, but in fact, in Matthew 6 Jesus actually teaches us that we should pray "Give us this day our daily bread". My brother taught me something interesting about the word "daily". The Greeks combined two words 'epi' (which means "on behalf of, towards, upon, for..") and the word 'iousios' (which means "substance, property, goods, necessary items"). This word is so unique that it only appears 3 times in ALL of Greek literature. Two of those times are in the Bible and the other extra-biblical reference is referring to the bible. It's an obscure word that was translated to be "daily" but it has a much deeper meaning. What Jesus was literally saying was to pray "give us this day what is essential, what is necessary on our behalf". He flat out tells us to ask for what we need. I think the problem with us (especially Americans) is that we don't even know what we need. Have you ever seen the movie "The Jerk" with Steve Martin? There's this really funny scene where he goes:

"And that's it and that's the only thing I need, is this. I don't need this or this. ......[picks up ashtray] Just this ashtray........ [picks up paddle game] And this paddle game. The ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need.......[picks up remote] And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need........[scoops up matches] And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball........ And this lamp [adds lamp to armfull]. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that's all I need. And that's all I need too! I don't need one other thing, not one! ......I need this. The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure! ..... And this. And that's all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair...." - Navin Johnson in The Jerk

You get the idea. It's so hysterically funny because just when he thinks he has all he needs, he suddenly sees something else he "needs". We have to discern our needs from our wants. Some of the things we think we can't live without, really aren't "epiousios" - they aren't necessary or essential for living. Another thing to consider is that there's more to 'bread' than what our flesh needs to survive. We can't forget what our spirit needs...which is The Bread of Life (Christ) - see John 6:30-35

Another thing I was taught to remember when we are praying for our needs is this:

1. We should ask, but never beg: too many people approach God as if they need to beg, plead or change His mind. Watchmen Nee in his book "Let us Pray" said something like "...we cannot force Him to do what He has no intention of doing. If God is not willing to act, who can make Him?" It's not necessary for us to plead with God (as if we could ever persuade Him). As my last few paragraphs pointed out, He desires to give us what we need...He wants us to ask.

2. We should trust Him without doubting His timing or His heart: we need to remember that He is good, He is always good, even when it doesn't appear things are going that great. His timing is perfect and it will intercede with our need at the precise time that it's necessary.

3. Just because we've prayed and asked, doesn't mean we do nothing while we wait: there are over 30 Proverbs devoted to teaching against laziness or idleness. I've seen countless people be spiritually lazy and want to call it "faith". That's not faith. Just because we've prayed doesn't mean we do nothing. Most of the time God has ordained a means to provide for us through our own actions/working. In other words, our ability to work and do things is a way God has given us power to secure what we need.

It seems to me that the only thing any mature Christian really might pray is, "God, whatever your will is, I pray for that." Pretty concise. One might even wonder why you would need to pray that God's will would be done, since he is Omnipotent, but since we have Jesus' example of praying God's will be done, I wouldn't argue that point too stenuously.

This is going to be a radical statement but...one of the reasons it's important for us to pray "Thy kindgom come, Thy will be done" is because God will not move in the earth apart from praying people. At first, that sounds just wrong, I know. But it's true. I didn't say He is incapable, I mean He chooses not to. God allows us to participate with Him to bring His kingdom to the earth. This is why we're told to pray this way. If you look in Scripture, there are countless testimonies of things that took place in direct response to prayer. Sometimes it took hundreds of years for it to come to pass, but it was always a result of someone praying for God to act. So, it's very important for us to pray and ask for God's will to be done. Even though He is Omnipotent and can do anything He wants, whenever He wants...He chooses to do so when His people pray and seek Him for it. I personally believe that He waits until people pray before He moves. This belief has given me more of a sense of urgency to my prayers and expectancy. I think it's so amazing that God allows us to partner with Him this way. It shows His heart to have relationship with us and not just be some cosmic vending machine in the sky. He let's us be actively involved in His kingdom purposes through our prayers.

It would be so nice if someone could really answer this question for me in a way that would give me some peace. Because whenever I do try to pray, I might babble for a moment about something that I would like to have happen, annex it with, "But, I guess, whatever Your will is, that is really what should happen." and then I wonder why I bothered to mention what I would prefer in the first place. Kind of like, when you were a kid, and you knew if you asked for ice cream, the answer was going to be no, but you asked anyway and then weren't surprised when you heard "no".

I hope that what I've shared helped you as it helped me when I first learned it. I used to think the exact same way as you and never really saw the significance in prayer since God knows everything anyway. Everyone always said "He knows what you need before you even ask for it". So that just solidified in my mind "why pray?". But after my brother sat me down one time and thoroughly explained the importance of prayer it honestly changed my perspective on it. I consider it a priviledge and honor now to pray. I realize how important it is and what a difference it can really make.

The last thing, above everything else I've said about prayer, I wanted to share a little personal story. My brother shared this with me about something my mom said several years ago (when she was battling cancer). He told me that one morning he was talking to her after she had been spending some time in prayer. She was a very godly woman who knew God's word and prayed fervently her whole life (mostly for others) but during this time when she was sick she obviously found herself praying earnestly for God's healing. Anyway, my brother was talking to her about what she prayed and she told him something like this: "You know Heath, during this whole process I've been so desperate for God's touch, like the woman who longed for just one touch of Christ's garment so that she could be healed. I've been praying and seeking His will - His touch, but today my heart was so convicted when I heard Him say tenderly "Oh child, would that you'd want My face as much as you want My hand." He said that when she told him that they both sat there quietly sensing the magnitude of it...imagining how The Father longs for us to want Him all while we're often just wanting something from Him. How that must break His heart. Still, He delights in meeting our needs and many times goes "abundantly above all we ask or think". What an amazing Father He is.

So anyway, in summary, I just wanted to encourage you to seek God Himself above all else. I think one of the significant things about praying to Him as our "Father" is because that teaches us to recognize Him as the source of everything we need. He is all we truly need.

I hope that helps!

[Kabowd]

It would seem, from looking around, that something is wrong with this statement. The unbelievers in the world are often filthy rich, having far more than they need, at least in terms of money and physical blessings. Since many do not believe in God at all, much less pray, then that begs the question, what is the point in prayer as it regards anything attainable through "hard work" or talent? If God answers your prayers through hard work, how can you say you've recieved anything new at all, when the world gets the same thing or better, and without prayer?

First of all, as I stated before, there is a vast distinction between being "filthy rich" (having what you want) and having what you "need". While on the outside it might appear that someone like...say...Bill Gates might have everything they would ever need that isn't necessarily the case. One, "things" do not constitue "need". Thus, while he may have lots of "stuff", he/they most likely have accumulated such things precisely because they don't even know what they need, or they're searching for what they need. Two, even if an unbeliever has lots of "stuff" (including what they need) how can you be so sure it isn't the result of someone's prayer? Is your worldview so small that you think just because you didn't pray for the blessing, or even they didn't pray for the blessing, it means it wasn't requested of God? Third, we need to be sure we certainly don't equate having lots of "stuff" with being blessed. It might appear that the unbeliever is more prosperous, but if their soul is lost...is that a blessing or a curse? What if those very things hinder them from coming to the Lord, much like the rich man Jesus encountered. Finally, there is great satisfaction, joy and peace found when a prayer has been answered. So while it might appear that an ubeliever is getting the same benefit as the praying believer, that just isn't the case. The believer has had the blessing of 1) connecting with God as the source of his need and experiencing the comfort that relationship brings 2) the joy and peace in knowing God has promised to meet his needs 3) the grace sufficient enough to carry him through when God meets his needs in a different manner (or time) than he would like 4) the satisfaction and delight in seeing God move and respond to his need.

So what would be the point of God using something that is already in your power to answer a prayer? If you were already capable of doing it, why bother asking God to do it for you, and if you aks God to bless you, how have you recieved anything new if you were already had the means to get it to begin with? and it was part of the "normal" wages and reward for performing that task? If that is the case, God answers the unbelievers prayers(their hopes and dreams) equally to the believer, and without them even knowing it.

Again, how can you be so sure that someone hasn't been praying for that unbeliever? Your worldview seems so very small. Secondly, you seem to be missing the point of what I was saying. God provides for us and desires to provide for us, yet a large majority of the time the way He does so is by giving us the ability to accomplish things. It still comes from His hand, ultimately. He just allows us to participate, to take ownership and be actively involved. Plus, it's a way for us to exercise our faith.

I'm simply saying that the rewards of hard work is not really an answer to prayer because everyone who works hard in similar fields, and with similar skill and experience, receives similar wages.

If you think wages are the entirety of our "needs" or even the crux of what we need then you've entirely missed the point. So what if they make the same wages? So what if they have more material things? Number one, how do you know someone didn't pray for that person? Number two, how do you know God is the One who provided it?

In summary, if you want to measure success by wages or possessions then yes...it's going to be very discouraging when you look around the world and see the unbelievers seeming to be "getting ahead". But when you consider the numerous, immeasurable blessings found in trusting God, clinging to Him and watching Him move on your behalf...how can that compare to what you see with your eyes?

"I was young and now I am old, yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken or their children begging bread." - Psalm 37:15

God is good. He is always good. No matter if our circumstances seem to tell us something different.

[apothanein kerdos]

Ok, don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think I have EVER heard of someone praying for God to bless sinners. Praying for their salvation, yes, but praying for them to recieve blessing, financial or otherwise, before they are saved, is almost sacrilige.

Can you fathom someone praying like this?

"Oh yes, God, Bless that devil worshipper. Give him a raise and help him do his job right."

That's the best you can come up with? It doesn't sound right?

NO, before she even replies, you go back and try again. That's just unacceptable as a reply.

[Kabowd]

Ok, don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think I have EVER heard of someone praying for God to bless sinners. Praying for their salvation, yes, but praying for them to recieve blessing, financial or otherwise, before they are saved, is almost sacrilige.

Can you fathom someone praying like this?

"Oh yes, God, Bless that devil worshipper. Give him a raise and help him do his job right."

There you go again assuming all blessing and praying for someone consists of is material prospering. You've never heard of praying for your enemies? You've never prayed that God would bless someone in spite of their sin? What bible are you reading? What's wrong with praying that God would heal someone who isn't saved yet? And for that matter, what's wrong with praying that God will provide abundantly for someone even if they aren't saved? What makes you so sure God can't use His provision to bring them to Himself? And are you implying that just because a person is saved, they "deserve" something more than someone who is not? None of us are deserving of anything but hardship. If you or I experience any reprieve from suffering it's only by His grace. So if we find ourselves in a moment of peace or prosperity we better sure as heck never make the mistake of assuming it's because of anything we have done to earn it.

[VRSpock]

Just as Christ prayed for those about to crucify Him...so we must pray for those who are our enemies....for they know not what they do.