sylvan3 Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2006 ccording to the Bible, all souls originate with/are created by God. This appears to be foundational for your premise. Can you please show where in the Bible it says that "all souls originate with/ are created by God"? the Bible specifically states that Heaven...constitutes 'being with' or 'a closeness to' God. Again, I am curious to know where it "specifically states" such a thing. Please give the verse(s). It appears to me that the foundations for your questions sre presumptions about what the bible says, or at least misinformation about what the Bible teaches concerning creation and what heppens after we die. I don't think that your questions can be fairly addressed without your first having a clear understanding about what the Bible really teaches. That is the problem I constantly encounter with those who seek to find fault with God. They don't really know what the Bible says. They attribute to the Bible, things it does not say, and then opertate from faulty positions. They are essentially criticizing the Bible over something it does not say. Instead of actually having the integrity to do REAL research into the biblical claims, it is easier to condemn the Bible over what they THINK the Bible says. There is a difference between faith and delusion. Many statements in the Bible require a person to reflect and say, "Is it faith to believe this or is it delusional". Believing in talking snakes, donkeys, 900-year-old men, etc. are on the side of delusion in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 ccording to the Bible, all souls originate with/are created by God. This appears to be foundational for your premise. Can you please show where in the Bible it says that "all souls originate with/ are created by God"? the Bible specifically states that Heaven...constitutes 'being with' or 'a closeness to' God. Again, I am curious to know where it "specifically states" such a thing. Please give the verse(s). It appears to me that the foundations for your questions sre presumptions about what the bible says, or at least misinformation about what the Bible teaches concerning creation and what heppens after we die. I don't think that your questions can be fairly addressed without your first having a clear understanding about what the Bible really teaches. That is the problem I constantly encounter with those who seek to find fault with God. They don't really know what the Bible says. They attribute to the Bible, things it does not say, and then opertate from faulty positions. They are essentially criticizing the Bible over something it does not say. Instead of actually having the integrity to do REAL research into the biblical claims, it is easier to condemn the Bible over what they THINK the Bible says. There is a difference between faith and delusion. Many statements in the Bible require a person to reflect and say, "Is it faith to believe this or is it delusional". Believing in talking snakes, donkeys, 900-year-old men, etc. are on the side of delusion in my opinion. That is your opinion, but does not speak to what I said. It is one thing to not believe what is said. It is another thing to ascribe to the Bible things it does not say, and then attack the Bible credibility based upon an incorrect recollection of its remarks. You can call the supernatural, or anything that does not fit in your box as "delusional," but that is another issue for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylvan3 Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2006 ccording to the Bible, all souls originate with/are created by God. This appears to be foundational for your premise. Can you please show where in the Bible it says that "all souls originate with/ are created by God"? the Bible specifically states that Heaven...constitutes 'being with' or 'a closeness to' God. Again, I am curious to know where it "specifically states" such a thing. Please give the verse(s). It appears to me that the foundations for your questions sre presumptions about what the bible says, or at least misinformation about what the Bible teaches concerning creation and what heppens after we die. I don't think that your questions can be fairly addressed without your first having a clear understanding about what the Bible really teaches. That is the problem I constantly encounter with those who seek to find fault with God. They don't really know what the Bible says. They attribute to the Bible, things it does not say, and then opertate from faulty positions. They are essentially criticizing the Bible over something it does not say. Instead of actually having the integrity to do REAL research into the biblical claims, it is easier to condemn the Bible over what they THINK the Bible says. There is a difference between faith and delusion. Many statements in the Bible require a person to reflect and say, "Is it faith to believe this or is it delusional". Believing in talking snakes, donkeys, 900-year-old men, etc. are on the side of delusion in my opinion. That is your opinion, but does not speak to what I said. It is one thing to not believe what is said. It is another thing to ascribe to the Bible things it does not say, and then attack the Bible credibility based upon an incorrect recollection of its remarks. You can call the supernatural, or anything that does not fit in your box as "delusional," but that is another issue for another thread. I have previously made direct quotes from the Bible. They are exactly what it says. Would you like me to start a thread that gives you a chance to answer these quotes? I am genuine about this. I will only put one quote at a time. It would not be my intention to inundate you--I realize that you would have normal time constraints. It's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulGrind Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 244 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/20/1973 Share Posted July 11, 2006 This appears to be foundational for your premise. Can you please show where in the Bible it says that "all souls originate with/ are created by God"? Again, I am curious to know where it "specifically states" such a thing. Please give the verse(s). I have seen both these quotes myself - although, worded slightly differently. I can't think of the passages off hand, but I can paraphrase them for you... The passage of scripture that refers to all souls originating from God... God is speaking to someone and says something along the lines of "You know not where your came from before you were born". In other words, God's challenge is saying "I know where you came form, do you? I don't think so." It does not necessarily state that all souls came from God. However, one need only look to the scriptures to verify that God is omnipitant and omnipresent, has been, is, and always shall be - the Alpha (beginning) and the Omega (end). So if God is the beginning, then all creation comes from God. So if man makes an airplane... the airplane is from God? YES God made man. Man made the airplane using materials made by God, therefore, through proxy, God made the airplane. WHAT? Think of it this way... You are at work. Your boss tells you to go do something. Who takes credit? You or your boss? You do. Of course, but when your boss sits in with the other executives he says "I was able to have this accomplished." How can this be? He didn't do anything? Yes he did. He managed the team that got the results. This is an over simplification of course, but an analogy just the same. I will look for the actual passages and post them if and when I find them if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulGrind Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 244 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/20/1973 Share Posted July 11, 2006 This appears to be foundational for your premise. Can you please show where in the Bible it says that "all souls originate with/ are created by God"? Again, I am curious to know where it "specifically states" such a thing. Please give the verse(s). I have seen both these quotes myself - although, worded slightly differently. I can't think of the passages off hand, but I can paraphrase them for you... The passage of scripture that refers to all souls originating from God... God is speaking to someone and says something along the lines of "You know not where your came from before you were born". In other words, God's challenge is saying "I know where you came form, do you? I don't think so." It does not necessarily state that all souls came from God. However, one need only look to the scriptures to verify that God is omnipitant and omnipresent, has been, is, and always shall be - the Alpha (beginning) and the Omega (end). So if God is the beginning, then all creation comes from God. So if man makes an airplane... the airplane is from God? YES God made man. Man made the airplane using materials made by God, therefore, through proxy, God made the airplane. WHAT? Think of it this way... You are at work. Your boss tells you to go do something. Who takes credit? You or your boss? You do. Of course, but when your boss sits in with the other executives he says "I was able to have this accomplished." How can this be? He didn't do anything? Yes he did. He managed the team that got the results. This is an over simplification of course, but an analogy just the same. I will look for the actual passages and post them if and when I find them if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondeve Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 That is the problem I constantly encounter with those who seek to find fault with God. They don't really know what the Bible says. They attribute to the Bible, things it does not say, and then opertate from faulty positions. They are essentially criticizing the Bible over something it does not say. Instead of actually having the integrity to do REAL research into the biblical claims, it is easier to condemn the Bible over what they THINK the Bible says. Shiloh: Please read what I said in response to Oveyda. I haven't quoted the Bible because, in all fairness, such quoting isn't necessary, although Soul Grind has pointed out that he/she knows what I'm referencing. If God doesn't make all souls, then who else is creating them/where are they coming from? If being in Heaven doesn't mean being in God's presence, then how is it Heaven and why do Christian prayers mention seeing him there? Really think before you answer. If I were Christian and had said that souls come from God and that being in His eternal presence was what Heaven is all about, would you have asked me to cite chapter and verse? Or would you have assumed that these were true and reasonable assumptions/statements, and taken it for granted - in accordance with your knowledge of the Bible - that such basic ideas were hinted at or contained within it somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondeve Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 I will look for the actual passages and post them if and when I find them if you're interested. Please do - it may very well aid the point I'm trying to get across, or at least this discussion in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I believe God created us with freewill so that we would love Him by choice not obligation. When I used to tell my son that I loved him, he would say, you have to, you're my mom. I would tell him that I love him because he is funny, smart, considerate and a wonderful person. Not that I love him because I am his mom, but I would love him even if I wasn't. Doesn't it mean so much more to know you are loved by choice? I think we are on the earth to learn how to live in heaven. If we can't love each other on earth, how will be able to love eachother in heaven? If we can't worship God on earth, how can we worship him in heaven? Like the song says "We're getting ready for Glory". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2006 ccording to the Bible, all souls originate with/are created by God. This appears to be foundational for your premise. Can you please show where in the Bible it says that "all souls originate with/ are created by God"? the Bible specifically states that Heaven...constitutes 'being with' or 'a closeness to' God. Again, I am curious to know where it "specifically states" such a thing. Please give the verse(s). It appears to me that the foundations for your questions sre presumptions about what the bible says, or at least misinformation about what the Bible teaches concerning creation and what heppens after we die. I don't think that your questions can be fairly addressed without your first having a clear understanding about what the Bible really teaches. That is the problem I constantly encounter with those who seek to find fault with God. They don't really know what the Bible says. They attribute to the Bible, things it does not say, and then opertate from faulty positions. They are essentially criticizing the Bible over something it does not say. Instead of actually having the integrity to do REAL research into the biblical claims, it is easier to condemn the Bible over what they THINK the Bible says. There is a difference between faith and delusion. Many statements in the Bible require a person to reflect and say, "Is it faith to believe this or is it delusional". Believing in talking snakes, donkeys, 900-year-old men, etc. are on the side of delusion in my opinion. Unless there is an all powerful creator who makes such things possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondeve Posted July 11, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) I believe God created us with freewill so that we would love Him by choice not obligation. When I used to tell my son that I loved him, he would say, you have to, you're my mom. I would tell him that I love him because he is funny, smart, considerate and a wonderful person. Not that I love him because I am his mom, but I would love him even if I wasn't. Doesn't it mean so much more to know you are loved by choice? I think we are on the earth to learn how to live in heaven. If we can't love each other on earth, how will be able to love eachother in heaven? If we can't worship God on earth, how can we worship him in heaven? Like the song says "We're getting ready for Glory". If God can do anything, even the logically impossible, then he can give us free will to choose his love in a world without Sin, which would be the all-loving thing to do. Seeing as this isn't the case, he is either all-loving but not all powerful, or all-powerful but not all-loving. Edited July 11, 2006 by secondeve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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