Faith versus Works

[(Omega)]

How can the following verses be reconciled? They appear contradictory.

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.... For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law."

--Romans 3:20,28 (NIV)

versus

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." --Romans 2:12,13 (NIV)

I think that a way to reconcile this is to say that we are justified by both faith and good works.(James 2:24) Also what St. Paul was speaking of was the ritualistic laws of the Jews under the Old Covenant. This is exemplified at the beginning of Romans 3. Hope this helps.

You cannot be both justified by faith and works. We must understand James chapter 2 in context:

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:14-16)

In v. 17 it states that "faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone, " v. 26 reads very similarly, v. 21 tells us that "Abraham our father [was] justified by works" and v. 24 declares that "by works a man is justified, and not by faith only," so proponents of those who deny justification by faith alone argue that we are justified in the sight of God by faith alone. However, this argument misinterprets the passage and manifests a misconception about the nature of saving faith in the Biblical Gospel. Verse fourteen begins the section of the epistle that runs through v. 26 with a question: "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" The passage addresses one who says he has faith, but has no works. He claims to believe, but persistently lacks actions that back up his claim. The erga de me eche, ""and have not works," represents a continuing action through its combination of me and the present active subjunctive eche; "faith which continues to produce no works is dead." It could be paraphrased as, "What does it profit, my brothers, though a man keeps on saying he has faith, but keeps on having no works? Can that kind of faith save him? So the question addressed in James 14:26 is "can [that kind] of faith save him?" (v. 14) Will someone who claims to have the new birth, but possesses no change of life, go to heaven? James' question expects a negative answer, for such a mere intellectual knowledge is not "the faith of God's elect" (Titus 1:1). "God hath before ordained" that those who "by grace. . . saved through faith. . . not of works. . . are [God's] workmanship, created in Christ unto good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). All who are delivered from the penalty of sin, eternal damnation, are also freed from the bondage to sin, and will manifest the new nature God gave them in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). The man who has a James 2:14 "faith" has never truly repented and believed the gospel. Verse 15-17 illustrate the assertion of v. 14 with an example: "If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone". Just as words will not clothe the naked or fill an empty belly, so an outward profession of conversion without a changed life manifests an absence of genuine faith. The kind of faith that does not lead to works is "dead, being alone" (v. 17), because it never was saving faith at all. Verse 18 continues, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." The contrast between dead faith and real, living faith is continued; one is to show his faith by his works. The works do not change dead faith into living faith

[catholicbsg]

I personally don't do good works to gain heaven, not by works of rightiousness, The only thing that i can give to go to Heaven is Me.

there is nothing in the world that you can do or say in the sight of God to gain God's aproval to enter heaven but to Come as your are. God doesn't want your stuff, its all his anyways! Come as you are before God and he will come in!

you are right....Jesus just wants YOU and a relationship with you. but think about good works, service....as a response to God's love. when you touch a hot stove you draw your hand back without thinking...when you recive blessings from the Lord you SERVE and preform GOOD WORKS, not to achieve favor, but as a response!

[billie]

Yes, BSQ, we love because we first were loved, we serve because He first served us.

[redeemed098]

Once you have BROKEN the Law, you have become a 'Lawbreaker'. You might just as well do what Moses did and smash them to the ground..it is too late now.

The law that purposed for the protection of life had now been reduced to a simple mirror that serves to reflect the TRUE state of a mans soul before God.

When you break the speed limit and are pulled over by the police, you have no power to undo what you have already DONE..You must now reap the consequence of that action.

If you do not believe in God but yet hold to a form of law, yet deny the lawMAKER, you are considered to be "a law unto yourself." If you believe that you are justified by keeping the laws, then you will be judged by those very laws which you have already BROKEN.....What else can you BE but GUILTY..

No one can be saved from the wages of sin by simple observation of the law because the law in itself does not have the power to stop you from breaking it....

It never DID.....If you think you are a righteous person, then let the law govern your decision...Test yourSELF....See if you are NOT a lawbreaker.

"He who falls at ONE is guilty of ALL." If you want to be righteous, perfectly righteous then you must keep ALL of the laws of God flawlessly...Trouble IS, when you are confronted by them, you can already see that you have failed.....What NOW...??? What a dilemma...! Are you withOUT hope of salvation...??/ Surely NOT..!

Why would the laws of God NEED to reveal what sin IS....??? If you do not KNOW what sin IS, how can you repent....? How can you know what to be sorry for if you don't know what youve done....?

"Righteousness cannot be gained through simple observation of the law because the whole purpose of the law is to reveal SIN....."

Just as a speed limit sign determines the boundaries you must operate within when driving your car....You are without excuse if caught because you KNEW the speed limit......You KNOW stealing is wrong and lying and blaspheming and adultery and murder, yet as observers of the law, you deny the LawMAKER. This makes you a "Law unto yourselves."

Jesus came to fulfill the law, that is to be the ultimate purpose the law was put in place.....To lead you to a knowledge of sin, and then in turn lead you to HIM as the one who can pardon you......The law is fulfilled when you come to Christ, because that is its very purpose....To LEAD you to Christ.

Faith withOUT works IS dead because to feed a hungry mouth with physical food and yet neglect the real bread from Heaven, that is Christ, a person has not offered eternal life....Only a few more years....A man is in need of spiritual bread as well as physical bread......That is why charity is useless when it neglects the sharing of the gospel of Christ......WithOUT Christ, a mans agenda is simply to deny the light of Gods grace and mercy by shining a light on his OWN self righteousness.

When you DO this, then in the words of Paul, "You live your life as though Christ died for NOTHING....!!!"

Is it any wonder that Gods Word rebukes us and says this...." YOUR most righteous acts are as filthy rags to the lord." Do you know WHY...????

Because the charitable acts you are taking part in are only brought about by the effects of SIN in the first place....In essence you are trying to make up for what you CAUSED.....Your sins and my sins are what nailed Jesus to the Cross. No act of self righteous charity will ever reverse that. Not ONE of us can claim to be righteous because we are ALL sinners.......No one can save us from the wages of sin except Christ..You can only be righteous "In Christ"....Outside of Christ, you are simply an already condemned and GUILTY Lawbreaker.

"He who has the SON of God has life, but he who does NOT have the Son of God does NOT have life and Gods WRATH abides on that man." You stand condemned already.

Its not like there's a trial....God already KNOWS your heart...He has no need that a man stand before him for judgement....He already knows your heart....Judgement day is the day of sentence for crime already committed.....Your only lawyer is Christ, and he is NOW while you are alive....

"Today is the day of salvation", simply because you have no way of knowing whether or not you will have a Tomorrow..!!

"For there is NO other name given under heaven by which a man must be saved..." NO OTHER NAME......

Regards,

Ben.

[redeemed098]

Good WORKS cannot ever hope to EARN or make one DESERVING of Salvation.....Salvation is only made possible by the Work of Christ on the Cross.

You are justified by HIS Work, or not at ALL.

Good Works therefore is not an attempt to Earn salvation....Good Works is the fruit or the product of having already RECEIVED Salvation.

Good Works is the response to having BEEN saved, not a mans endeavour to BE saved......He is already saved....! He is already pardoned and forgiven..!!

And for this he is thankful.

"Without Holiness NO ONE shall see the lord." If YOU think that you can make yourSELF Holy, then you are bound by Religion...You are attempting to work for Gods favour....This is denial of the atoning Work of Christ on the Cross..Anyone withOUT Christ will try to make themselves Holy through Works...Those who deny the GRACE of God, must therefore find some other way to earn Gods favour......This is usually a form of works.

Regards,

Ben.

[sylvan3]

Good WORKS cannot ever hope to EARN or make one DESERVING of Salvation.....Salvation is only made possible by the Work of Christ on the Cross.

You are justified by HIS Work, or not at ALL.

Good Works therefore is not an attempt to Earn salvation....Good Works is the fruit or the product of having already RECEIVED Salvation.

Good Works is the response to having BEEN saved, not a mans endeavour to BE saved......He is already saved....! He is already pardoned and forgiven..!!

And for this he is thankful.

If someone is saved, what motivation is there for them to do good works? They are already saved. You will say that if they are saved they will want to do good works. That is like giving someone a paycheck, telling them that they don't HAVE to do their job, and expecting that they will do their job because they already got their paycheck for not doing their job. What company operates on that principle? It's completely nonsensical and obliterates the Christian religion, for me, in terms of making sense.

Besides, I know plenty of Christians who consider themselves saved that are not doing good works (which could be defined as repeatedly "lusting" in their heart when they see an attractive woman or man). Remember, all sins are equal in God's eyes, according to believers. Any little sin, therefore, could be construed as not wanting to do good works, thus casting serious doubt on the legitimacy of their faith, which then puts their salvation in question.

"Without Holiness NO ONE shall see the lord." If YOU think that you can make yourSELF Holy, then you are bound by Religion...You are attempting to work for Gods favour....This is denial of the atoning Work of Christ on the Cross..Anyone withOUT Christ will try to make themselves Holy through Works...Those who deny the GRACE of God, must therefore find some other way to earn Gods favour......This is usually a form of works.

This is why many Christians scare me. They think they have the promised land because they are saved by faith, but they aren't afraid to sin repeatedly.

Edited July 29, 2006 by sylvan3

[redeemed098]

Good WORKS cannot ever hope to EARN or make one DESERVING of Salvation.....Salvation is only made possible by the Work of Christ on the Cross.

You are justified by HIS Work, or not at ALL.

Good Works therefore is not an attempt to Earn salvation....Good Works is the fruit or the product of having already RECEIVED Salvation.

Good Works is the response to having BEEN saved, not a mans endeavour to BE saved......He is already saved....! He is already pardoned and forgiven..!!

And for this he is thankful.

If someone is saved, what motivation is there for them to do good works? They are already saved. You will say that if they are saved they will want to do good works. That is like giving someone a paycheck, telling them that they don't HAVE to do their job, and expecting that they will do their job because they already got their paycheck for not doing their job. What company operates on that principle? It's completely nonsensical and obliterates the Christian religion, for me, in terms of making sense.

Besides, I know plenty of Christians who consider themselves saved that are not doing good works (which could be defined as repeatedly "lusting" in their heart when they see an attractive woman or man). Remember, all sins are equal in God's eyes, according to believers. Any little sin, therefore, could be construed as not wanting to do good works, thus casting serious doubt on the legitimacy of their faith, which then puts their salvation in question.

"Without Holiness NO ONE shall see the lord." If YOU think that you can make yourSELF Holy, then you are bound by Religion...You are attempting to work for Gods favour....This is denial of the atoning Work of Christ on the Cross..Anyone withOUT Christ will try to make themselves Holy through Works...Those who deny the GRACE of God, must therefore find some other way to earn Gods favour......This is usually a form of works.

This is why many Christians scare me. They think they have the promised land because they are saved by faith, but they aren't afraid to sin repeatedly.

Sylvan,

Am I correct in saying that even though you do NOT believe and place faith in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation, you are in fact attempting to say that if God DID exist, YOU would be MORE worthy of his forgiveness than one who DOES believe he exists.....How pathetically naive and hypocritical of you Sylvan....

Every Believer KNOWS that Gods forgiveness is simply a measure of how forgiving GOD is....It was never about being deserving.....Never EVER was it something you could be deserving of.... How DARE you take the focus off your OWN sins by attempting to point to the faults of OTHERS.....

How DARE you....!! You hypocrite....

Believers ARE saved by faith whether YOU like it or NOT Sylvan.....Not based on THEIR attempts to be righteous, but in their acknowledgement of the only one who IS........God.

Regards,

Ben.

[sylvan3]

If someone is saved, what motivation is there for them to do good works? They are already saved. You will say that if they are saved they will want to do good works. That is like giving someone a paycheck, telling them that they don't HAVE to do their job, and expecting that they will do their job because they already got their paycheck for not doing their job. What company operates on that principle? It's completely nonsensical and obliterates the Christian religion, for me, in terms of making sense.

Besides, I know plenty of Christians who consider themselves saved that are not doing good works (which could be defined as repeatedly "lusting" in their heart when they see an attractive woman or man). Remember, all sins are equal in God's eyes, according to believers. Any little sin, therefore, could be construed as not wanting to do good works, thus casting serious doubt on the legitimacy of their faith, which then puts their salvation in question.

Sylvan,

Am I correct in saying that even though you do NOT believe and place faith in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation, you are in fact attempting to say that if God DID exist, YOU would be MORE worthy of his forgiveness than one who DOES believe he exists.....How pathetically naive and hypocritical of you Sylvan....

I can't even fathom how you could come to that conclusion. I don't see anywhere in the post where I led anyone to any conclusion that I thought I was "more deserving of his forgiveness than one who DOES believe he exists".

Every Believer KNOWS that Gods forgiveness is simply a measure of how forgiving GOD is....It was never about being deserving.....Never EVER was it something you could be deserving of.... How DARE you take the focus off your OWN sins by attempting to point to the faults of OTHERS.....

How DARE you....!! You hypocrite....

Take some deep breaths. I am only differing in opinion from you.

Believers ARE saved by faith whether YOU like it or NOT Sylvan.....Not based on THEIR attempts to be righteous, but in their acknowledgement of the only one who IS........God.

Here is my take, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, which I am sure you will do:

You are saying that one is saved by faith. You also say that a person will then want to do good works. I am asking about the people who continue to sin and don't do good works even though they are theoretically saved because being saved doesn't depend on works. You are saying that, by not doing good works, their faith isn't complete, correct? I am saying that might include a lot of Christians, based on the Biblical fact that all sins are equal (e.g. lie=murder) in God's eyes.

Edited July 29, 2006 by sylvan3

[billie]

You are saying that one is saved by faith. You also say that a person will then want to do good works. I am asking about the people who continue to sin and don't do good works even though they are theoretically saved because being saved doesn't depend on works. You are saying that, by not doing good works, their faith isn't complete, correct? I am saying that might include a lot of Christians, based on the Biblical fact that all sins are equal in God's eyes.

[sylvan3]

You are saying that one is saved by faith. You also say that a person will then want to do good works. I am asking about the people who continue to sin and don't do good works even though they are theoretically saved because being saved doesn't depend on works. You are saying that, by not doing good works, their faith isn't complete, correct? I am saying that might include a lot of Christians, based on the Biblical fact that all sins are equal in God's eyes.

I understand all too well the confusion this might cause for you. My brother claims he's saved but won't stop smoking crack and messing around with teenage girls. This is a lifestyle for him. I would have to sat there is such a thing as a false convert, that he said his little sinner's prayerthinking he's got some fire insurance, not really caring about knowing the truth about God. He was just afraid of going to hell. While that is sometimes a motivator, it's not really what God wants from us. He wants our hearts. When we experience the love God wants to show us, that's what causes the change that brings about the works. If we're not willing to open our hearts to Him, that inside change doesn't take place.

Yes, that is type of situation to which I refer. Thanks..