Kabowd Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 Also, in your post, you're basically stating that they each believed a doctrine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Also, in your post, you're basically stating that they each believed a doctrine The doctrine that is being preached is coming from the Holy Spirit. It doesn't matter if these men are fallen or not.....they are being lead both physically and mentally by the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that is doing the teaching....not the men. This is a hypothetical situation. It is not real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 Also, in your post, you're basically stating that they each believed a doctrine The doctrine that is being preached is coming from the Holy Spirit. It doesn't matter if these men are fallen or not.....they are being lead both physically and mentally by the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that is doing the teaching....not the men. This is a hypothetical situation. It is not real. Again, are they fallen? When the fall took place, was everything affected (including the mind) or not? It's a hypothetical, yes...but I was assuming they were still fallen men, not perfect, sinless beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2007 What if one man was Jonathan Edwards and the other man was Jim Jones? If they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter. My point is, each man believed he was under the influence of the Holy Spirit. The opening post stated that the only teacher they had was the Holy Spirit. But I see where you're coming from...so yeah...what if. The original post states that these two men are lacking in doctrine or "free" of any ties of any doctrine or theology. My point is that this is impossible. It's not possible to escape doctrine. The very idea that the Holy Spirit teaches us about the gospel is a doctrine. The concept that we can rely on Scripture is a doctrine. Doctrines are inescapable. Likewise, we all have presuppositions that affect us. No matter where we're born, in what culture, we are not a "clean slate"....we have worldviews that shape how we see everything else. We are fallen, everything about us is fallen..even our epistemology. In this lifetime we will never achieve 100% accuracy, we can only pursue to grow in wisdom and knowledge and continue to obey His command of renewing our minds for His glory. See what I'm saying? I see exactly what you're saying. But in this situation the 2 gentlemen were lead by the Holy Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit who was doing the teaching, not the individuals. So the message that was being preached had to be nothing less then pure. See what I'm saying? Even though the Holy Spirit is a perfect Teacher, we are not perfect students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Even though the Holy Spirit is a perfect Teacher, we are not perfect students. Again...it was the Holy Spirit that was doing the teaching....not the 2 individuals. If this were not a made up situation I would totally agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted March 18, 2007 I have to agree with Fiosh and Kabowd, just look at the Apostles, I don't think anybody would say the Holy Spirit wasn't working with tremendous power in them, and they still had disagreements and falling outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Also, in your post, you're basically stating that they each believed a doctrine The doctrine that is being preached is coming from the Holy Spirit. It doesn't matter if these men are fallen or not.....they are being lead both physically and mentally by the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that is doing the teaching....not the men. This is a hypothetical situation. It is not real. Again, are they fallen? When the fall took place, was everything affected (including the mind) or not? It's a hypothetical, yes...but I was assuming they were still fallen men, not perfect, sinless beings. If they were being lead by the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter if they were fallen or not. Their actions and words are coming from the Holy Spirit. Since it's the Holy Spirit who is doing the teaching....both messages would be identical because there is only One message. I can't see the Holy Spirit teaching someone one thing and turning around and teaching someone else the exact opposite. This is a hypothetical situation. We are to assume that both men are completly filled with the Holy Spirit. If it were any different, then yes, the outcome would be different. I have no problem believeing that we are not perfect. Anyone who believes they are perfect is blind and walks among the shadows. This is a made up topic and I'm just treating it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2007 Even though the Holy Spirit is a perfect Teacher, we are not perfect students. Again...it was the Holy Spirit that was doing the teaching....not the 2 individuals. If this were not a made up situation I would totally agree with you. Man, you got it! I feel no need to add much if anything thus far since you're doing just fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2007 Also, in your post, you're basically stating that they each believed a doctrine The doctrine that is being preached is coming from the Holy Spirit. It doesn't matter if these men are fallen or not.....they are being lead both physically and mentally by the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that is doing the teaching....not the men. This is a hypothetical situation. It is not real. Again, are they fallen? When the fall took place, was everything affected (including the mind) or not? It's a hypothetical, yes...but I was assuming they were still fallen men, not perfect, sinless beings. If they were being lead by the Holy Spirit, it wouldn't matter if they were fallen or not. Their actions and words are coming from the Holy Spirit. Since it's the Holy Spirit who is doing the teaching....both messages would be identical because there is only One message. I can't see the Holy Spirit teaching someone one thing and turning around and teaching someone else the exact opposite. This is a hypothetical situation. We are to assume that both men are completly filled with the Holy Spirit. If it were any different, then yes, the outcome would be different. I have no problem believeing that we are not perfect. Anyone who believes they are perfect is blind and walks among the shadows. This is a made up topic and I'm just treating it as such. Ok, I'll assume that they are the holiest men that ever lived and that they are totally surrendered to God. In that case, they would have a very good chance of hearing the Spirit's voice. Even so, they are not ventriloquists' dummies. The Holy Spirit works THROUGH them---through their imperfect fallen nature. Silentprayer makes a good point about the Apostles. And, could you respond to my previous post (#28)? Thanks. Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2007 Even though the Holy Spirit is a perfect Teacher, we are not perfect students. Again...it was the Holy Spirit that was doing the teaching....not the 2 individuals. Not exactly. The Holy Spirit is teaching THEM. They are teaching the natives. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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