WN: Bush threatens to veto health bill - USA Today

[forrestkc]

Apparently, not enough consider it a moral issue to get it past a veto. I don't, and do support candidates that oppose government welfare spending. I believe it is just as immoral to take money out of the pockets of hard working Americans, money that could be going to pay for heat and air conditioning, gasoline to get to work, food for the children, etc., as the idea it is ok to confiscate that money to give to more government programs.

Look at the contribution trends for the Health Insurance Industry and I think you will see a solid pattern for the senators that are against this.

See: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=F09

The majority of Americans disagree with you, and consider this to be a moral issue:

A majority of Americans say the federal government should guarantee health insurance to every American, especially children, and are willing to pay higher taxes to do it, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Nearly 8 in 10 said they thought it was more important to provide universal access to health insurance than to extend the tax cuts of recent years; 18 percent said the tax cuts were more important.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...750c0a9619c8b63

You would be hard pressed to find anything that more people agree on than insuring all children in America have health insurance coverage.

[forrestkc]

Fine Forrest, this will not be the first time I was in the minority viewpoint on something, but I continue to stand against it, and support doing whatsoever is necessary to defeat tax increases and increased social spending, including the use of a filibuster and Presidential veto.

By the way, the article never shows the actual questions posed in the poll. Polls are often skewed by their wording. I would like to see the actual wording of the questions before agreeing that 8 in 10 Americans support government health insurance for all Americans.

The actual poll questions:

30. If you had to choose, which do you think is more important for the country to do

right now, maintain the tax cuts enacted in recent years or make sure all Americans have

access to health care?

18% said Cutting Taxes

76% said Health Insurance for all Americans

34. Currently, a government program provides health insurance for some children in low

and moderate income families. Should it be expanded to include ALL uninsured children?

11% Opposed

84% Favored

Full Poll Results here: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...022007_poll.pdf

[Giaour]

So what if they are uninsured.

I raised my kid without insurance and he is fine.

We still dont have insurance.

The hospitals are very nice and flexable making our payments easy to handle.

There are also PRIVATE charities that help pay for hospital bills for the uninsured.

But but but but it's for the children..

Waaaaaa

Let's put a higher tax on chocolate for the children. We all know that chocolate is bad for you too.

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of being forced (by taxes) to pay for every single thing that is "for the children".

Give me a break already.

Its a moral issue. In the richest nation in the history of civilization, we ought not have the highest child poverty rate of any industrialized nation, and we ought not have 9 million children without health coverage.

The fact that your kid is fine is evidence that you were lucky enough to have a healthy child. Had your child been uninsured, and had a chronic life threatening illness or injury, things would not have went so rosy. Do you honestly think that "flexible and easy to handle payment arrangements could have been made" for health bills totally hundreds of thousands of dollars for something like cancer treatments? Do you think that your uninsured child would have gotten the same quality of healthcare as an insured child? There is a reason why the single biggest reason for personal bankruptcy filings in America is healthcare debt.

Moreover, private charities do not have the resources to even pay the medical bills for a tiny fraction of the uninsured. If you totaled up every cent given to charity in the last year, even included the 80 to 90% of charitable contributions that go things like arts and university programs, you would less than 5% of the annual costs of healthcare in this country.

The way the question is worded is misleading.

Ofcourse I want everyone to have access to health care and THEY DO! Noone is turned away from a publically owned emergency room.

Everyone DOES have access to health care.

Yes, it is a moral issue and government doenst legislate morality.

Private charities have plenty of money to help the poor. We dont need the government to do it for us.

As far as my son goes;

He was not "lucky", there is no such thing as luck.

My son had several health problems and has been to the emergency room on many occaisions. We always made payments.Along with help from the shriners and local fund raisers.

As a matter of fact, some rich guy donated money to expectant mothers without insurance to cover the birth expenses. I paid nothing for the birth and prenatal care.

I do think that insurance and non- insurance coverage has nothing to do with hospital care given.

[forrestkc]

Fine Forrest, this will not be the first time I was in the minority viewpoint on something, but I continue to stand against it, and support doing whatsoever is necessary to defeat tax increases and increased social spending, including the use of a filibuster and Presidential veto.

By the way, the article never shows the actual questions posed in the poll. Polls are often skewed by their wording. I would like to see the actual wording of the questions before agreeing that 8 in 10 Americans support government health insurance for all Americans.

The actual poll questions:

30. If you had to choose, which do you think is more important for the country to do

right now, maintain the tax cuts enacted in recent years or make sure all Americans have

access to health care?

18% said Cutting Taxes

76% said Health Insurance for all Americans

34. Currently, a government program provides health insurance for some children in low

and moderate income families. Should it be expanded to include ALL uninsured children?

11% Opposed

84% Favored

Full Poll Results here: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...022007_poll.pdf

In the first question, they don't ask if Americans want to pay for government sponsored insurance for all Americans if it means a repeal of the Bush tax cuts. It asks if the people think it is more important to keep the tax cuts or to insure all Americans have access to health care. Even when I didn't have insurance, I had access to health care. This question is very misleading.

To the second question, I would say the results were effected by the wording. If they wanted a true answer, they would have left out the first portion of the statement. By having as part of the so-called question, "Currently, a government program provides health insurance for some children in low and moderate income families," it makes it easier to simply say, sure go ahead and insure all. In addition, the question doesn't tell anyone the cost, or how it will be financed. I would have been in the 11 percent opposed, but regardless, had they worded the question differently, like say the following, I believe the results would be differen't.

Should the government place a 61 cent per pack increase on cigarrettes to pay for insurance for every child in America? I have a feeling the numbers would change drastically.

Yeah, you would probably have over 90% in favor of it. People are not stupid, if you read the entire poll, a majority of Americans supported universal coverage even if it included a tax increase.

[forrestkc]

The way the question is worded is misleading.

Ofcourse I want everyone to have access to health care and THEY DO! Noone is turned away from a publically owned emergency room.

Yes, everyone has access to emergency health care. However, not everyone has access to preventative medicine which is what actually improves your quality of life and extends life spans.

Yes, it is a moral issue and government doenst legislate morality.

No, the government does not compel religious morality. However, we have always enacted laws and programs that reflect what we as a society believe are our collective responsibility.

Private charities have plenty of money to help the poor. We dont need the government to do it for us.

Not true at all. Roughly 20 billion dollars a year is contributed to charitable programs to help the poor, the uninsured, single mothers, the mentally ill, and the homeless combined. That represents only a fraction of the amount of money spent in the public sector for such services. The vast majority of charitable contributions go to University and Arts endowments.

As far as my son goes;

He was not "lucky", there is no such thing as luck.

My son had several health problems and has been to the emergency room on many occaisions. We always made payments.Along with help from the shriners and local fund raisers.

As a matter of fact, some rich guy donated money to expectant mothers without insurance to cover the birth expenses. I paid nothing for the birth and prenatal care.

I do think that insurance and non- insurance coverage has nothing to do with hospital care given.

I have a pretty good insurance plan through my employer, I know for a fact that I would get better care than someone who was uninsured would. I have my choice of doctors, they don't. I can get preventative care and a complete physical every year, they can't. I can see any specialist I want, they cant. I grew up poor and have been uninsured before, I get far better medical care being insured than I did when I was uninsured. Also, uninsured expectant mothers automatically qualify for Medicaid while pregnant, so why would someone have to make a donation for their care?

[Scarletprayers]

I was one of those single mothers, no child support, no help from the ex..............I worked, paid my bills and didn't expect the government to take care of me or my kids. And yes, I have a child that was bi-polar, do you know how much those meds cost, 3 pills a day at $5 a pop, and the cost of the "childrens mental health facility" he stayed in a number of times for months at a time. How many of that number in your report, are children of illegals????? I've said it before and I'll say it again, when the government stops sending billions of dollars to other countries, that hate us, and supporting all of the illegal aliens, while Americans either born or legal are getting NO help, with decent housing, medical expenses, food and just the basic things for a decent life...................yeah the government cares...........cares about taking more of my money.

[Zceiv]

Here is a good way to do the poll Forrest.

The government already takes x amount of dollars from your paycheck every week to give to other people. Do you support them taking even more to give to more people?

I would love to see how that one comes out.

I doubt he'll answer it. with a yes or no

[forrestkc]

Here is a good way to do the poll Forrest.

The government already takes x amount of dollars from your paycheck every week to give to other people. Do you support them taking even more to give to more people?

I would love to see how that one comes out.

From the poll:

9. Which of these domestic policies is most important for the President and Congress to

concentrate on right now: 1. reducing taxes, 2. making health insurance available to all

Americans, 3. strengthening immigration laws, or 4. promoting traditional values?

ANSWERS WERE ROTATED.

Reducing taxes- 11%

Health insurance for all - 55%

31. Would you be willing or not willing to pay higher taxes so that all Americans have

health insurance that they can't lose no matter what?

Willing - 60%

Not Willing - 34%

(This one is a follow up to expanding CHIP Programs)

35. IF ANSWERED

[Giaour]

I just watched Glenn Beck on CNN and discovered some interesting information.

I'm going by memory but I'll try and get the transcript for you.

It seems the breakdown numbers for the uninsured people in America isn't being reported completely.

MOST of the uninsured are ILLEGALS

followed by Americans who make over 70,000 a year

followed by Americans who make over 50,000 a year

(hardly poverty)

followed by college age students in between insurance policies.

(just left parents policy and yet to get their own)

I'll get the exact numbers asap.

[forrestkc]

I was one of those single mothers, no child support, no help from the ex..............I worked, paid my bills and didn't expect the government to take care of me or my kids. And yes, I have a child that was bi-polar, do you know how much those meds cost, 3 pills a day at $5 a pop, and the cost of the "childrens mental health facility" he stayed in a number of times for months at a time. How many of that number in your report, are children of illegals????? I've said it before and I'll say it again, when the government stops sending billions of dollars to other countries, that hate us, and supporting all of the illegal aliens, while Americans either born or legal are getting NO help, with decent housing, medical expenses, food and just the basic things for a decent life...................yeah the government cares...........cares about taking more of my money.

We spend roughly 14 billion dollars a year for foreign aid with the largest single recipient being Israel. This is out of about 2.3 trillion dollars of total Federal Outlays. So foriegn aid is only a drop in the bucket.